Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Tiredtim on July 23, 2013, 11:17:31 pm
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Okay, just a quick question: How many bows did some of you break before "getting" the hang of this? My last two have snapped. I think I am tillering too thin. The last one broke in a hing...I think. It was a board bow made out of maple backed with hickory. Very frustrating but I will prevail! Or at least I hope. Too many hours and too many tools bought. Thanks
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Good Luck and keep working. I'm going to try a laminated bow soon.
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You'll get it, seriously, you will. With some things, you gotta keep at it for a bit before you start to see some real progress. It just makes that moment when you get it that much sweeter, :). Be diligent and be certain to ask help and advice here as much as you can. And even people who have been making bows for 30 years can break a bow or two, or run through a string of bad luck, etc.
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I've had 5 bow breaking streaks and then I get one. I'm still inexperienced and I don't even compare with some of the guys on here. So if you are bellow or at my skill level then expect to break a few. I think the biggest thing to do when you break one is to identify why it broke and do your best to avoid that next time.
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Chin up, bud. You'll get there. Check the grain on your boards. That's a very common source of breakage on board bows. Good luck
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Heck, I brook one bow 3 times. I got a lot of learning out of that piece of wood. ;)
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My first three bows made off the tillering stick and to the range and each shot about 100 arrows before exploding because I had been removing wood from the back ::)
Since then, Cascara has been my challenge. Two exploded, one looks pretty but is going to explode if I shoot it any more and is a decoration. Black locust and ash are my best friends ;D
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Took me about 15+ crappy bows that broke before I made any nice bow worth keeping and that held togeather. Now I rarely break a bow
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My first handful of bows were all shooters but then I got cocky and messed a few up.
Remember the absolute golden rule that must never ever be broken - full length fibers running the full length of the stave. Now think about a laminated bow.....unless you happen across that mythical perfectly straight grained board for your backing then you have already broken that golden rule. Boards almost always have fibers cut through to some degree. If you really want to make a laminated bow and don't have a lot of experience selecting boards then I would suggest using bamboo for your backing as it doesn't have any fibers cut through and is therefore almost bombproof - just use a dense wood for the belly.
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Lots. ;) ;D Hang in there,it will come around. :)
Pappy
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ya got to crawl before ya walk you'll get it, just wondering what profile are you trying, some guys try and start with more advanced designs and get a lot more blows than bows
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Good luck. It took me a whole year until I made a successful bow but I still break one or two so far I have 5 successful bows but one im working on has developed some chrysals so im not going to bother with a finish and just shoot it until it breaks. :-[ :P keep at it and you will get there. This is a great forum full of great information.
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None. My first selfbow.is a little whip ended but still shoots 15 years later. Second, third, etc were tillered better and none broke. All of my first bows were osage staves. My first yew, ash, hickory, hhb all still shoot. Again, they were staves I cut and seaskned. I didn't break one until I started getting really carried away with using 2nd and 3rd rate woods, and worse, and pushing limits of design.. Had an Arborvitae explode the first time I drew it by hand, and I had a couple cherry and walnut bows chrysal on me due to poor design.
I've made a bunch of bows with 'boards' I made from staves/trees I cut, but never messed with boards from home improvement stores.
You should post pictures as you progress with your next bow so these guys can guide you through design and tillering. Lots of knowledge and experience here to 'draw' on. Keep at it. It'll come.
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Everyone's learning curve is different....having someone with some experience under there belt to help you in person and look over your shoulder is the best way to learn how to do this,and get a shooter the first or second time around....
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I had 14 breaks before I got a bow I could hunt with. Take your time.
As was mentioned, with boards look for straight grained stock. No glued on pieces. Let the handle bend. Do not narrow the handle section. 1 3/8" will get you 45-50# if you do your part. That design makes for an easier build.
There is a buildalong on my site. That bow is 1.5 in wide but is heavier.
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html
Jawge
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My first 15-20 all shot and shoot to my knowledge. Then like Mike, I got cocky and have broke at least 10-12 since those first good ones. Crap happens.
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it took me about 6 bows to get a shooter, and have made about 20 since then with a few breakages mixed in. some of those 20 turned out real nice but i think i got lucky with them. Only recently does it seem like things have "clicked", now tillering is easier, knowing how wood reacts to my tools, etc. This has all been with straight limbed longbows, don't mix in the "extras" like recurves, sinew, etc till you really get the hang of just using your tools and making a shooter, then you can advance your skill. Just my thoughts, keep at it!
Oh and one more thing...TILLERING GIZMO!
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Thanks guys. I never give up! I know that I have a LOT of learning to do. Fortunately, I have a friend who is very good at bow building and I pick his brain every chance I get. He showed me a few things on this bow I just made a few mistakes after leaving his house. And I do need to check the grain of boards that I pick up. I think that was my biggest mistake now that I think about it. I will take every thing that you guys said and learn from it.
And what is a "tillering gizmo"? I looked it up and understand how to make it. But do you mark along the edge of the bow?
Thanks again
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I prefer to have a piece of threaded rod m5 or so instead of a pencil.
To use you put the bow on a tillering stick, then run the gizmo along the limb and look at the gap between the gizmo and the bent limb.
Once you try it it will become obvious. They are very useful with board bows and you should never get a hinge if you are careful as they show any extra bend very clearly.
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I have a tillering gizmo and have used it. But, I seem to spend more time fiddling with the gizmo than I do tillering the bow. I get the pencil length adjusted so it's not marking the whole limb, then the lead wears out. I have to unscrew the pencil, resharpen and adjust the length again. Too much work. I use a 4" block of wood and just look at the gap, then mark spots with the pencil.
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the key is not to use a sharp pencil since when i wears the length changes so fast. use a blunt pencil so it doesn't wear so fast, only swipe once or twice on the limbs then go back and mark them better if you need to. I don't think i spend more than a minute fiddling with the gizmo on any one bow.
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Maybe unique in this case,but I never shot a real bow before trying to fashion one.so I never new how heavy it should feel to brace,floor tiller or pull by hand on a tillering stick.so once getting a sense for it things became easier.floor tillering in my case very important and get things fairly even before putting it on a tree.I think that there is a distinct advangtage to get a sense of the balance and weight of bow,be it modern one or not.
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Yea I forgot, what helped me was buying a bow since I had never shot a bow or even touched one I knew making one would be super difficult I bought one to help me get started and yea tht helped a lot I still have the little 25# recurve never gets shot but it helped me in my bow making journey
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hehe I don't even have a tiller.
i know I suck at making bows... but last night my friend bought 3 red oak boards.. we knocked out a bow in 2 hours(including dinner) with a hand plane and 2 rasps. Stained it, and put a handle on it last night. Tommorow he's going to mayland and going to shoot with family.put about 100 arrows through it so far. around #65@26, 70" long, super thin tips...
i bought a #35@28 red oak backed with linen... and it broke.
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hehe I don't even have a tiller.
i know I suck at making bows... but last night my friend bought 3 red oak boards.. we knocked out a bow in 2 hours(including dinner) with a hand plane and 2 rasps. Stained it, and put a handle on it last night. Tommorow he's going to mayland and going to shoot with family.put about 100 arrows through it so far. around #65@26, 70" long, super thin tips...
i bought a #35@28 red oak backed with linen... and it broke.
why don't you post that bow? You know here on PA we love seeing pics of bows... ;D
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Man I learn a lot from breaking bows. (learned quite a lot recently) Still have a lot to learn. If you can get a good idea of why it broke then in a way it's a success because it improves your skills and knowledge of what to do better next time. You can't loose dude. Just start another one and then another one.....keep bugging your friend and ask all these guys a bunch of questions. Build alongs are huge too...
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My first two bows were shooters and then I broke seven in a row before I made another. I've made over a hundred bows now and I feel that I'm just starting to get the hang of it.
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Like I said don't use a pencil! It doesn't make sense. A piece of threaded bar is infinatly and micro adjustable. With a gizmo you have to be able to very finely adjust it or else they are worse than useless!
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it happens everyonce in a while.
Bamboo bows will break also. But the Boo is usually reuseable. for me it tends to bbe either grain related or hinge related + impaitence.
Go slow and look for signs of bending issues and address them as they show up in early stages and shallwo bends. Then get it back the full amount.
If you are laminating more than two layers that takes more planning. I still loose a few because the core was too thick.
Maple isn't an easy wood to start with.
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You Might want to try hickory backed maple hickory is a dense wood but it is flexible and very good in tension it is one of my favorite bow backing an maple is not very good for a bow from my experience the reason it probably broke is because of the wood combo
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Okay, just a quick question: How many bows did some of you break before "getting" the hang of this? My last two have snapped. I think I am tillering too thin. The last one broke in a hing...I think. It was a board bow made out of maple backed with hickory. Very frustrating but I will prevail! Or at least I hope. Too many hours and too many tools bought. Thanks
Took me 7 bows before I got one shooting.............. :o