Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Arrowind on July 18, 2013, 09:16:21 pm
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I apologize if this question has been asked a million times. I've used artificial animal sinew and B50 but mostly B50. I've been wanting to try a different string material with less stretch. A lot of bowyers I respect on here suggest fast flight. Some bowyers I respect say don't touch the stuff. I've decided to give it a try. I just went on Three Rivers' site to order some. Now I'm confused.....What the heck do I use? Seems like Fast Flight Plus would be the one to go with. It also seems like Astro Flight may be even better for all the same reasons people have said to try Fast Flight. And I just don't see "Fast Flight" at all..... :o
Here's what I found:
Fast Flight Plus
Astro Flight
BCY 450 Plus
BCY DynaFLIGHT 97
BCY DynaFLIGHT 10
???
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FastFlight Plus is what I use. I got a spool for 25$ online. You can shoot that trade bow and see what you think of it because that's what I used on it.
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From my experience and you got to remember we're talking wooded/self bows................ "no stretch" material as you have listed is like cereal many different choices but you still end up with cereal.
DBar
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I use fast flight plus, definitely happy with it, worth the money in my opinion. I also like normal linen from pyrosupplies.
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Thanks guys. Just ordered some.
Weylin,
The bow shoots awesome!
Yeah. I noticed the string is so much thinner than the ones I've been making. I was wondering if you used Fast Flight. How many strands did you use? I still plan on taking some pics. Probably Saturday.
Danzn - making me hungry man. Might have cereal for dinner tonight.
Toomany, thanks. Nice to hear your opinion on this. I've been wanting to try linen also just wasn't sure where to get it.
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I made the switch from B-50 to FF about a year ago and have no regrets. I have been making double loop twisted strings and my spools are going a long way.
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I can recommend Fast Flight plus. Haven't tried the other FF spin-offs, but there is definitely a big jump from B50 to FF plus. From making the string to shooting, it is a completely different animal.
I have to caution against linen string from pyro supplies. I got a spool that tested at half the breaking strength advertised. It was well recommended, so maybe I just got a bad spool. We now use it as trellace material for our scarlet runner beans.
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Remember all these different names are there for marketing! All these strings are based on a material called dyneema - it is used in many different applications and is close to perfect for bowstrings.
Good quality linen can be like rocking horse doodah ;) If you find a particularly good batch you should buy it all! Very good linen will make a string that will almost match fastflight but just won't be as durable.
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We use D97 most of the time, 10 or 12 strand on most bows 55 and down. No problems. I stayed with b50 till we ran out,some say it's more traditional but heck it's all man made, I guess linen would be my choice if I wanted to go natural. :)
Pappy
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Ive used 10,97, plus and 452x. I love them all and will use any of it. I look for the best price and buy it.
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Thanks Guys. As I mentioned earlier a lot of Bowyers I respect on this site have recommended FF. I've seen incredible bows from all of you guys. So I really appreciate the comments. It makes me feel better about spending my limited amount of cash.
I've gotten to the point that I'm trying to fine tune how I make bows to squeeze out a little more performance. I know this is just one factor but It seems like an easy place to start. I'm working on my trade bow and want it to be the best it can be. I don't want my guy to be disappointed. Also the idea of less arm slap is appealing.
As for number of strands. Isn't FF much stronger than B50? How many strands do you use? Part of the reason for wanting to use a this material would also be to lower string mass. I typically use 12-14 strands with B50 (maybe overkill) but that's what I've been doing.
People have commented that FF goes a long way because they use less of it. It seems like people trying to sell the stuff want you to use more strands than you really need for obvious reasons. The more you use the more you have to buy.
Any suggestions?
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8-10 strands with any of it up to 60# for me. I don't build bows any heavier very often. Never had a break, an unravel and wear out or anything. I have 3 year old strings that look new after hundreds and hundreds of shots.
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I tend to make my hunting weight bows with 12 strands. (that's what yours is) But like PD says, that's probably a little overkill.
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We use D97 most of the time, 10 or 12 strand on most bows 55 and down. No problems. I stayed with b50 till we ran out,some say it's more traditional but heck it's all man made, I guess linen would be my choice if I wanted to go natural. :)
Pappy
Seems like we were just talking about this at Cloverdale :D
If I remember right, Jon said 97 was the ticket but they all will work.
Tracy
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I have used every type of FF material on the market and best I found is a BCY 8190 16 strand. Still thin but strong and way less stretch than alot of them on the market and its real quiet to boot and I don't use silencers with proper tuning
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Ditto on what PD said.I use FF Plus and three ply it using nine strands up to 60#.A string 60" long made that way will only weigh 70 to 80 grains with the serving.Thousands of shots and never has one broke.In my opinion using too many strands of FF Plus for a bow will make the string even stiffer yet thus endangering the integrity of your bow even more.I've never had a bow blow apart from using fast flight.But Asian horn bowyers because of the extreme reverse profile their bows have and stored energy shy away from it.B50,the closest thing to silks' quality is used there instead.
Company's like 3 Rivers don't want any feed back of broken strings so they always error on the side of more strands as a safety factor.
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Dynaflight 97 is awesome stuff, better than FF in my opinion.
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pearlie talked me into tryin FF and it is great stuff
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hey guys. Thanks for all the advice. I have ordered FF Plus. I'll just start with that and see how it goes.
Weylin,
I would have guessed that string was 8 - 10 strands. I'm wondering if the single strand diameter is less than B50. Anyway I like it.
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Hmmm, I always thought that conventional wisdom was that you were not suppose to use FF on self bows. I thought that this was because there is very little if no stretch on FF and it creates more shock and can break bows Maybe I need to update my library. Hehe. ;D
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That's what I had heard as well... then I find out that all these incredible bowyers are using it with out issue! I have heard that it's a good Idea to do some kind of tip overlay to protect string knocks.... I wonder if someone will weigh in on that...
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my recipe from pearlie, 2 bundles of 4 with 2 8" pcs of b-50 in the loops both bundles to pad the loops
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So are you guys saying that B50 is no longer needed and all bows would be better off with FF? The reason I ask is I was planning on getting some B50, but now you guys have me wondering. I guess I have been scared away from FF for so long it is hard for me to go that route without worrying about hurting the bow.
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This has come up often. I've been shooting FF strings on my bows better than 15 years. Never had problem one with any of them on any bow. I was warned at the time that it would break a self bow. Just never happened. My FF strings for 45-55 lb bows are thinner today than they used to be, 8 strand (2 strands of 4) with a total of 4 extra strands at the loops. Can't remember the last time one broke. I still use Dacron for my tillering strings.
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My opinion:
A lot of really great bowyers in this thread swear by it which is in itself a testament for FF or its equivalent. I bet they are making osage bows with nock overlays. I would certainly use overlays.a
This not so great bowyer tried tillering with FF on osage and it worked quite well even without an overlay.
On a red oak stave, I was going to tiller with it but then split a nock down to 6 in. on the first stringing. I ended up putting on gluing the split together and put on overlay. In over 500 bows or breaks I've never split a nock like that.
In conclusion, use overlays for insurance is my advice. I could be wrong. I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken. :)
Jawge
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I used the old fast flight a lot it works fine. A friend of mind made some out of spider wire I don't know how it compares to others but not that bad.
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I suspect that some people had some bows break and wanted to blame it on something besides their design or tiller and decided it was because they switched to FF. (Not talking about you, Jawge) There's just been too many bows shot for too long of a time with FF for there to be a credible concern, in my opinion. As for tip overlays. They help for sure but in many cases they aren't strictly necessary. I've seen plenty of yew sapwood self nocks holding up just fine on hunting weight bows with FF. Keenan showed me a yew bow with self nocks that had tips I needed a microscope to see and it was holding up fine. That being said, I put overlays on almost all my bows for piece of mind and aesthetics.
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Jawge is mostly right so far as my experiences go. Most of my bows are Osage so there you go. But when I started most everybody, 'round here anyway was using Osage almost exclusively. The "FF will cause your bows to break" was in an era before all these bows were being made from white woods. Again, Jawges point is a good one in that FF strings may cut into softer woods unless overlays are used or you fatten the loops. I do one or both so never a problem. I believe it is one of those things that got said by a well meaning expert, was repeated as gospel for decades. As Weylin said, so many people using it now without much ill effect.
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BCY DynaFLIGHT 97
I think the number is around 200 plus stings I've made in the past 2 years.
8-12 stands, and re-enforce the loops to 16 stands. I use .025 size material for the serving.
My rule of thumb is 45# and below selfbows can stand 8 stand
10-12 strand for anything 45-60#.
Above 60# I'd use 12-14 stands.