Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: briarjumper12 on June 22, 2013, 01:35:21 pm
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Gentleman,
I am working on a hickory stave that has stumped me somewhat. It's got one limb that is reflexed about 1.5 inches or maybe a little more and the other limb is board flat. The specs are as follows, 72 in tpt, 1 3/4 wide at fades to midlimb tapering to a heavy 3/8 tip at the tips. I roughed out 5/8 thick at fades tapering 1/32 every 4 inches (limb divided in 8 equal sections along length) to 3/8 thick at tips. Thickness has been reduced some but has remained consistent. I have it braced now at 3 inces and pulling it to about 35 lbs (can't remember draw lenght right now).
On my tillering board the reflexed limb sits at rest about 1 1/2 higher than the flat limb but when working the bow the reflexed limb moves about 1/4 inch more at the tips than the flat. I have cut the reflexed limb a little thinner than the flat limb and judging by the tip movement when working the bow I assume it is actually weaker than the flat limb dispite the crazy look when braced.
My question is how should I deal with this phenomenon? I've thought of a few options. I'll list what I've considered.
1 Heat the reflexed limb up and flatten it out.
2 build a caul and reflex both limbs to match.
I am really not wanting to go to all that trouble though.
3 Tiller it on out, watching the taper closely and making sure both limbs are similar in strenght with the reflexed limb just a shade weaker and use for the top limb. Although this option may make for a lopsided braced profile.
4 Tiller it out making both limbs equal strength and use the reflexed limb as the bottom limb.
What is your folks opinions? I'll post some pics if necessary but I think this is pretty well explained. I've checked TBB, all 4 volumes and The Bent Stick. Comstock recommends flattening out the reflexed limb.
Thanks,
JY
Pics added in subsequent replies.
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got any pics?
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Hey briar, I have a caul you could use. I think it induces 3" of reflex from center to tip. It has worked magic for me on a couple rowdy staves. You're welcome to it.
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10-4 Greg. If I go that route I'll holler at ya.
I'll get some pics up when I get the chance. Entertaining younguns at the moment.
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unbraced from both sides. Reflexed limb on left in top pic.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0005_zpsfc189ed9.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0005_zpsfc189ed9.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0006_zpsa1ced56d.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0006_zpsa1ced56d.jpg.html)
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braced at 3 inches. top pic with reflexed limb on left.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0007_zps341186ac.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0007_zps341186ac.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0008_zps67b8686e.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0008_zps67b8686e.jpg.html)
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Drawn to 13 inches, 35 lb. Reflexed limb on left in top pic.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0009_zps211c7b19.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0009_zps211c7b19.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0009_zps211c7b19.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0009_zps211c7b19.jpg.html)
What says the gurus?
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i'd just make a bow, ain't that much reflex
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Type of wood? Clamp it to a caul and put equal reflex to both limbs with heat.
Tracy
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i'd just make a bow, ain't that much reflex
That's what I was hoping to do. If I even out the braced profile will the reflexed limb get to weak? Should I not worry about the braced profile being lopsided and keep the limbs working the same?
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I say - make the bow, go for it. Bob
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"Should I not worry about the braced profile being lopsided and keep the limbs working the same?"
Correct. Don't worry about the braced profile. A limb should bend evenly along it's length, and equal the strength of the other limb... when held the way the archer will hold it... but that doesn't mean it must match the profile of the other limb. Limbs may look different and still contribute equally such that they are syncronized. When that is accomplished, when they are perfectly syncronized, bows with odd-shaped profiles unstrung SHOULD have odd shaped profiles at brace and on through to full draw. Tillering limbs with different profiles to look the same to suit your eye is not the way to go.
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"Should I not worry about the braced profile being lopsided and keep the limbs working the same?"
Correct. Don't worry about the braced profile. A limb should bend evenly along it's length, and equal the strength of the other limb... when held the way the archer will hold it... but that doesn't mean it must match the profile of the other limb. Limbs may look different and still contribute equally such that they are syncronized. When that is accomplished, when they are perfectly syncronized, bows with odd-shaped profiles unstrung SHOULD have odd shaped profiles at brace and on through to full draw. Tillering limbs with different profiles to look the same to suit your eye is not the way to go.
That's what where my thoughts were leading me but I was wondering if I correct or not. Which would you suggest for top limb? I've read conflicting opinions but ways seemed to make sense if done correctly.
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Yup, the only way to get it to look "normal"/"balanced" is to reflex the other limb to match. It's not enough to worry about in my opinion unless you WANT them reflexed. Then you could do both on a caul and get them even.
AS IS: put a shim under the grip on the flat side to get the tips evened up, then tiller away as any other bow. The reflexed limb should end up your bottom limb.
Now get after it ;)
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Thank ye gents. I'm on it.
Had a minor set back. A crack emerged at the shoulder of knock. Nothing a little superglue and a tip overlay won't fix though. Just more time invested LOL.
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I'm in the add reflex group.
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I am in the add reflex camp too, but it is really up to you. Bubby was right about it not being all that reflexed. Main thing, no matter which way you decide to go is to make sure those limbs are bending evenly. If they are bending equal amounts, without flat spots or hinges, it should shoot fine even if the limbs don't match. Heat treating and reflexing would give you a little more draw weight.
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I would not shim one side of the handle to even the tips in height on the tree. I would leave the handle level, because that's how it will be held when drawn by hand. I would also only draw it on the tree by pulling on the string where it will be drawn from by the archer... not from the center of the handle.
If you hold and draw it on the tree the same way you will when yiu shoot it, and syncronize the limbs while doing so, it won't matter if one limb stsrts out in front of the other, or whether it looks odd at brace, and won't matter what the resultant brace measurements are in the end... in spite of all that, it will be well tillered, timed, easy and predictable to tune, shoot the arrow perfectly straight away, without handshock, without tiller shifts requiring corrections or flipping the bow end for end, etc.
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thank ye squirrel. I hadn't thought of that. I will incorporate that into my plan.
Just got through putting on some Buff horn on the tips. Got to shape them out and then back to tillering.
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I would put it on a form and put even reflex in both limbs, It will work fine either way,just saying what I would do. :)
Pappy
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You don't have to build a form to get the other limb to match...put a 2-3" high block on a straight flat 2x4 or your edge of the work bench and put/clamp the back of the handle of the bow on that...and then clamp the tips down and heat treat both limbs....it works fine this way as long as you have an even enough tiller before you heat it...IMHO hickory needs tempered,so why not kill two birds with one stone all in one shot and now both limbs will be even and easier for you to tiller if that is too much for you too handle...
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You don't have to build a form to get the other limb to match...put a 2-3" high block on a straight flat 2x4 or your edge of the work bench and put/clamp the back of the handle of the bow on that...and then clamp the tips down and heat treat both limbs....it works fine this way as long as you have an even enough tiller before you heat it...IMHO hickory needs tempered,so why not kill two birds with one stone all in one shot and now both limbs will be even and easier for you to tiller if that is too much for you too handle...
That sounds good. I've reflexed and toasted the bellies before but my form that I used is MIA in the catastrophe that is my shop. I like the sound of that method right there. Simple enough for even me. I might try it.
I got some buff horn glued on and tip roughly shape. Got to rough in the other and then I might do this.
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If ya do a word of caution to keep the heat away from your tip overlays..and I'd heat the flat limb first...then let it cool after an hour and go back and do the other limb...
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If ya do a word of caution to keep the heat away from your tip overlays..and I'd heat the flat limb first...then let it cool after an hour and go back and do the other limb...
10-4 on all dat.
Heatin' the flat limb right now. Cleanin the shop a little during intervals.
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Just add reflex to the other limb not that big of a deal
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Got it figured out and got it finished. Gotta serve the string, put in beaver fur and will be all done. Turned out pretty good, not perfect but....
I will say this bow tested my patience but with a construction time of about 6 weeks it is my fastest completed bow yet. Had to overcome the crazy limb, a cracked a nock shoulder and 12 hours of heat treating.
I will post pics and specs tomorrow, if it ain't raining all day (again!). After 6 weeks of working furiously on this thing I am wore out. ;D
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I am with blackhawk, that is how I heat treat my bows. I have a small white oak block that is 2"x2.5" and put it in the middle of the handle then clamp the tips to the bench till they just touch the top and heat treat away. It ends up adding about 1.5" of reflex to both limbs.
Grady
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Finished out at 72" tpt. 1 3/4" at fades to midlimb tapering to 7/16 tips. Pulls 51@28. Has buffalo horn tip overlays too but forgot to photograph them. Handle wrap is deerskin. Thanks for all the help guys.
Unbraced
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0003_zps21201de1.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0003_zps21201de1.jpg.html)
braced
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/bd95ae9d-bb6b-4440-a814-2e9c05fb87a4_zps9f785592.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/bd95ae9d-bb6b-4440-a814-2e9c05fb87a4_zps9f785592.jpg.html)
front profile
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0002_zpsde2f44f6.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/DSC_0002_zpsde2f44f6.jpg.html)
Handle
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/858ded57-38ac-4e9f-9247-71aceac0b8db_zpsfa665b88.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/858ded57-38ac-4e9f-9247-71aceac0b8db_zpsfa665b88.jpg.html)
Money shot
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/briarjumper12/Bow%20for%20Brian/7f19368d-2e09-4981-8ecf-b65e24764af2_zps09895cd4.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/briarjumper12/media/Bow%20for%20Brian/7f19368d-2e09-4981-8ecf-b65e24764af2_zps09895cd4.jpg.html)
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Very nice, that is one pretty bow.
Grady
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Sweet...that'll work...unbraced looks good..and at that length should be a stable accurate shooter that lasts a lifetime ;)
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Sweet...that'll work...unbraced looks good..and at that length should be a stable accurate shooter that lasts a lifetime ;)
That's what I was going for LOL. It's going to Brian DeRosa, owner of Wyoming Lost and Found, to hunt elk with this fall. He makes custom tipi tents and wanted to swap me a tipi for a bow and a set of arrows when I was ordering a small tent to test out. Now I'll have two tipi tents. Just got off the phone with him and he said "I am so stoked about it!" just by looking at the pics. I will be very glad to see someone so far away enjoying one of weapons to hunt elk with, especially in the wilderness of Wyoming. Now I have to figure out how to ship it LOL. I got a plan on that though. It'll be the first one I ever shipped away from my local area.
I should be getting the tipi's in the mail tomorrow. I am excited about that. Once I get them out and set up I'll post up some pics of them too. Brian has been great to work with during the process. I've talked with him on the phone and he seems to be a very likeable fellow.
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Sounds like a good deal you got there. Nice bow as well