Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DLH on June 16, 2013, 02:05:15 am
-
This is a bow I started up at Dave's (hedgeapple) back at his get together in March. I cut the nocks in it tonight and that was fairly difficult I thought my biggest problem was getting them to line up right I just hope its something that comes with practice. Here is the one I got finished I have the other end cut with the handsaw haven't filed it out yet though. They look terrible to me hope to improve on the next ones I cut. Here are some pics I plan on keeping this thread updated periodically like my other one too.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/B0F6030E-0973-4117-A08D-4CB21EFB6E46-2830-000002BBD64943B4_zps6983a9e0.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/B0F6030E-0973-4117-A08D-4CB21EFB6E46-2830-000002BBD64943B4_zps6983a9e0.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/B55E0D2D-8FA6-4545-845F-AA0ECDEECEF0-2830-000002B974DB982D_zpsd2180290.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/B55E0D2D-8FA6-4545-845F-AA0ECDEECEF0-2830-000002B974DB982D_zpsd2180290.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/BB2097FA-7327-4F9D-B6D9-257BB65F3923-2830-000002BBA73D5A64_zpsba808305.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/BB2097FA-7327-4F9D-B6D9-257BB65F3923-2830-000002BBA73D5A64_zpsba808305.jpg.html)
Thanks,
Daniel
-
File a little on each side and keep checking them as you go. It might be easier to keep them even that way. You can adjust it as you go. If you go with the pin nocks they are easy to even up.
-
Yea I dread cutting the Knocks because I try to get it as symmetrical as possible using a rat tail file helps get them more symmetrical Or drawing the nocks on first helps
-
I hate filing nocks, they suck lol.
-
I agree, I dislike cutting nocks, also. Mainly, cause I suck at it. This is a technique that has helped me a bunch keeping them even. It's a bit time consuming, but probably less time consuming that fixing a botched jog.
Mark a 45 degree line on the side of the limbs tip. Make sure to extend your pencil mark a little on the back and the belly. Flip the bow over and use the extended marks on the other side of the limb to line up your mark for this side of the limb. I then use an Exacto craft saw to cut into this line. I flip the bow over again and use the craft saw to cut into that line. The I use a triangle file to cut a deeper wider groove in the saw mark. I flip the bow over again and use the triangle file to cut a deeper, wider groove on that side, watching to make sure I keep that grooved lined up with the one on the other side. Now I grab my rat tail file to cut the string groove deep enough so when I reduce the tips later on, I won't have to do this process again. I don't roll the cut all the way to the center of the belly though.
Once more I flip the bow over and use the rat tail file on that side, checking every 10 strokes or so to make sure my file strokes are still lining up with the one on the other side.
I do that same process on the other tip. Yes, it's a lot of clamping and unclamping the bow from the vice, but my nocks are lining up much better these days.
Blackhawk, might have the best idea: Just thin your tips to 1/4 and put a tip overlay on the back, cut one groove and call it done.
-
I agree with the above - a couple of pencil marks and constant checking (side to side) will save MANY frustrations. Bob
-
Yep Dave...that's close to the way I do my nocks too.Pencil angle marks first then keep checking from top and bottom view to make sure they align evenly.On half inch deep wood I like to have a distance difference of 1/2' from top to bottom or like said a 45 degree angle.With a 5/32" file it can take me over an hour to get them right at times.I have a friend who uses a dremel tool but with power tools you can take off too much too quickly if you don't watch it.It just takes practice that's all.
-
You all should dislike it you should enjoy build all parts of a bow. Knocks put you own presonal touch to a finished bow. Fileing in and shaping the knocks one of my favoret things to do. I love to carve faces,rattle snake head in the upper ,rattles on the lower. I don't start out with anything special in mine. I t just comes to me as the bow takes place. Sometimes I even carve a face in the upper fade. It comes natural to me I love all careing from wood to stone I love doing it all.
You'll get better with time and bows you build.
-
I forgot to ask.
I've built bows from every wood I could get my hands on at one time or another. Never heard of a MOONTREE locust.
In lighten me.
-
I usually just "nick" the corners where i want the groove to start and end and sort of "connect the dots"
Works for me.
-
I forgot to ask.
I've built bows from every wood I could get my hands on at one time or another. Never heard of a MOONTREE locust.
In lighten me.
It's a black locust bow He was working on at the moon tree gathering
-
Sorry about that crooketarrow forgot to mention that little detail guess that does make it confusing. I tried to use a 45 square to draw my lines but it didn't work how I planned I could tell by looking that they wouldn't line up. So I ended up making a mark 1/2in down and an 1in down and connecting them from back to belly it seemed to be close to the 45 square but each side was more similar. It did take a lot of unclamping from the vice but I still manage to screw it up hopefully the other end will go better.
-
Daniel, my first several nocks looked just as bad or worse. And even now, they are sometimes off. Just file the high nock down to match the lower one and the lower up to match the higher. You're groove will be a little wider than needed, but so what. When a string is in them no one will notice. When I need to "clean up" this mistake, I use a larger rat tail file and work it like I stated up.
-
Measure down from the tip a halfinch and draw a straight line. Measure down from the tip three quarters of an inch and draw a straight line. Connect the two lines diagonally. Pretty easy this way.
-
I pencil them in and always adjust as needed. Keep a loop handy to fit it on the grooves if necessary. My first ones were filed in backwards and ended up with double string grooves on my first bow :o. Just keep it simple and use a round file, pencil, and string loop and you'll do just fine Daniel.
Is this the "nipple" bow from Moontree?
Tracy
-
I use this handy jig someone on one of the forums put out there. Allows you to mark both sides at the same time. I found 45 degrees produces a pretty severe string angle at the nock and if I don't get the shoulders right, the loops want to pop over the sides. Made a shallower angle and that seems to work better for me. I mark the line, cut it with a razor saw, enlarge it with a triangle file, then move to a hack saw with an abrasive blade (for cutting PVC?) and then move to The round file. Then when I flip it, I hold the round file in the groove and use it to line up the saw when I start the other side.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d83/skendrot/photo-20.jpg)[/URL]
-
They look better than mine :laugh:
-
Yes this is the nipple bow I thought about carving some details on the nipple if it turned out :laugh: that looks like a very handy tool you have there wood bender. Your bow is sweet ozzy I'm sure your nocks are much better. Thanks for all the helpful tips everyone.
-
Was gonna throw in with woodbender on the Jig idea. I made something similar a while back and its been helpful beyond belief!
-
Come on already...string that thang up n yank her back ;)
-
Now you've got us all thinking..............I don't remember the "nipple" thing. Daniel, you need to post a pic of the nipple.
-
I seen a buildalong a while ago and I really liked how he did his tips. He measured down an equal distance on both tips, and drew two 45 degree angle lines on each side a few millimeters apart. Then he cut each line with a coping saw, and pried the middle loose with a chisel. Then he proceeded to use files like everyone else.
I have switched to this method on the last few bows, and it gives me good consistent results.
I'll try to find the thread and link it but I can't remember what it was called or who made it. Maybe somebody else can remember.
-
Now you've got us all thinking..............I don't remember the "nipple" thing. Daniel, you need to post a pic of the nipple.
[/quote
put the ring in it first Daniel
-
I just file in the across grove down as far as I want the knock. From there I just file in the side groves and on around to and on the belly. I've never did any jigs or messureing. I might have to adjust the angle a little when I get to puting a string on when tillering. But I use'lly hit it right on.
Heres knock pic's. of my trade bow. These are not finished just ruffed in.(http://)
-
SORRY ABOUT THE SUCKIE PIC'S.
-
Come on already...string that thang up n yank her back ;)
Was that supposed to be a "nock nock" joke??? ::) :o ::) ;D
OneBow
-
Heres my nipple Bill! If you ask nicely next time I see you I will let you rub the nipple at no charge :laugh:
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/DEA072B8-7BA8-4730-9025-F859AD81B146-5768-000004FC131A17DD_zps55473e11.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/DEA072B8-7BA8-4730-9025-F859AD81B146-5768-000004FC131A17DD_zps55473e11.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/436462FC-76EC-42B1-A33D-3C731F711EE2-5768-000004FC48A4E331_zps779f9541.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/436462FC-76EC-42B1-A33D-3C731F711EE2-5768-000004FC48A4E331_zps779f9541.jpg.html)
I also finished filing the other nock too it looks much better to me its still not perfect but better for sure. I still need to sand all the sharp corners smooth and do a few more things. I have my rasps back now and will update my rasp sharpening thread as well.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/75E365F3-D612-4C8F-ADE7-49AE202B0F24-5768-000004FBC315FBA3_zps0fe18229.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/75E365F3-D612-4C8F-ADE7-49AE202B0F24-5768-000004FBC315FBA3_zps0fe18229.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/DB5917D2-CB35-479A-8D90-1FC04BA6253B-5768-000004FB8F5DB346_zps7b97071d.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/DB5917D2-CB35-479A-8D90-1FC04BA6253B-5768-000004FB8F5DB346_zps7b97071d.jpg.html)
I have been doing some reading on half pins and side nocks. I am considering them on my other locust bow. How narrow can I make my tips with half pins or side nocks? I have seen different things, I saw some half pins that were 3/8 and most of the side nocks are wider maybe to match the bow style they were making?
Thanks,
Daniel
-
Jeez you could hang a coat on that bow lol
-
OH yea............I remember it now. Those nocks look real good.
DBar
-
Looking good on the nocks. You could use a piece of sand paper folded up in the grooves to smooth out the edges and get them exactly how you want them.
Tracy
-
This is my latest progress I hope I haven't braced it too soon was trying to get the shortest long string possible but ended up around an inch brace so I went with it. I think the blue spots I have marked are stiff and the yellow spot is bending too much. I also believe the left limb is stiffer than the right. In that case does the left limb need to have wood removed until its even and how does removing wood on one limb effect the other or is that something that is learned along the way? I'm not completely convinced about the stiff spots though since they didn't start out with an even side profile. I don't want to go any farther until I get it evened out it feels really light at the moment but not worried about weight right now. Am I on the right path or do I need to change direction?
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/96B14104-BA19-487C-91C9-5CB7A98D9CCE-1314-000000B8FE3597DD_zpsb2cbc650.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/96B14104-BA19-487C-91C9-5CB7A98D9CCE-1314-000000B8FE3597DD_zpsb2cbc650.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/5C326173-84FD-4E9D-BBFC-A58C954EE912-1314-000000B8A3F1A562_zps90d7555a.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/5C326173-84FD-4E9D-BBFC-A58C954EE912-1314-000000B8A3F1A562_zps90d7555a.jpg.html)
Thanks,
Daniel
-
I know your original question was answered weeks ago, but I just thought I'd share a tip I use to get the grooves identical, every time, with no jig. Clamp the bow on it's side and file the first groove wherever you plan on having them. Then flip the bow over so the opposite side is face up, and place the file underneath in the groove you just cut. Looking straight down from above, you can line up a second file using the one below as a guide. Easy peasy!
-
Thanks for all the helpful hints guys. I have been working on it today since I have a long holiday. I have it to a higher brace now around 5in I think it is pretty even except in maybe in one spot. The handle also isn't tracking through the handle should I correct that before going any farther? The side the string tracks to is the shelf side if that helps any. Sorry the brace picture may be hard to see very well everywhere I wanted to take a picture it wasn't working so I went with the vice pic. I can get better pictures tomorrow.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/1819C42C-7B1B-4A47-AAAC-D69F9CB0D1AC-268-00000023E7A52380_zps96b860e1.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/1819C42C-7B1B-4A47-AAAC-D69F9CB0D1AC-268-00000023E7A52380_zps96b860e1.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/395448D5-52C9-4500-A2FD-65C34BA2DB2C-515-00000035DD15A4D3_zps339cf584.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/395448D5-52C9-4500-A2FD-65C34BA2DB2C-515-00000035DD15A4D3_zps339cf584.jpg.html)
-
Here is my latest progress at 16 in. I thought it looked good on the tree then I didn't maybe I'm changing what I think it should look like. I think it looks better in the hand but not perfect by no means. I think its stiff right below my hand and in the outer lower limb? Starting to bend too much mid limb on the bottom? Also a little stiff right above my hand but not very far up and bending too much right where the small door panel starts and stiff around the knot. What do you all think?
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/AB82B9F4-7555-40AC-B148-340ABC560A03-2180-0000019FC3263D06_zps132665a9.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/AB82B9F4-7555-40AC-B148-340ABC560A03-2180-0000019FC3263D06_zps132665a9.jpg.html)
Thanks,
Daniel
-
I would not disagree with your assessment. Even out the flat spots to match the areas that are bending too much. When you do that, those areas that are bending too much will flatten out some themselves. Run a straight edge along the belly and check the gap from grip to tip.
-
This is where I made it to this evening it hasn't changed a whole lot that I can tell. I still think it looks stiff about 6in below the handle on the bottom limb and maybe 3-4in above the handle on the top limb. I also think the both limbs are stiff in the outer limbs. Do you guys take more wood off on spots that seem stiffer I assume yes. For example I think the bottom limb out of the handle is stiffer than the top limb out of the handle could I give the bottom 50 scraps and the top 30 scraps and check the tiller again? Is this a good practice or no? Sorry for the large photo can't get it to resize.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/2286C201-D50B-46B5-BCEB-14759D87F6E2-264-0000001195BB4CA3_zps3b697dc6.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/2286C201-D50B-46B5-BCEB-14759D87F6E2-264-0000001195BB4CA3_zps3b697dc6.jpg.html)
Thanks,
Daniel
-
Yes, remove a little wood from the stiff areas. Try to get the limbs evened up and then you can remove wood equally from both. Be careful, once you get close to the final weight, it can be easy to take off to much and end up with a light bow.
-
Do you have a tiller tree or board? Put your bow on the tree and draw to this length. Take a straight edge of some kind, 4 inches or so, and run it along the belly. The gap will tell you if it's flat. It either is or it isn't. Your getting close to the point where 10 different people can give you 5 different opinions on what they see and how to proceed. The straight edge will reveal truth. Does the gap agree with your feeling about the flat spots you see? If so, scrape until they are no longer flat, 10 scrapes, exercise and check the gap, repeat until you've evened out the gap. I think you look better in the latest pic. I also think you could be getting hingey both limbs, 6 inches from the handle. Does the straight edge confirm this diagnosis or reveal something totally different? Fix what you find at this length and then draw it a bit farther and check it again.