Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: CORIUS on May 11, 2013, 10:43:09 am
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This is going to be the 3rd bow ive made. Im trying to get 60# at 30". The bow is 62" ttt with a 7" handle. Ill continue to post my progress and hopefully some fellow bowyers on here can help me along the way.
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That's asking quite a bit from r/o @ the lenght your going @! 2x your draw plus 6 is the norm in most cases.I would make it bend in the handle to help share the stress,but that's just one opinion.
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That seems to be very short for a 30" draw, you will be stressing those limbs to the max. Typically for a 30" draw you would make the bow 70-71" long ntn. You are looking for a 60# bow that is about 60" ntn could be done but your tiller will need to be spot on. IMO
Swimbill
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Its going to have a backing on it. Will that allow the bow to be pulled 30" without too much stress? What if i made it a 28" draw?
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Unless the backing is hide glue and sinew, probably not. The belly is gonna crush out whether its backed or not. You've cut the handle narrow enough that a bendy handle is not gonna be a viable option either. My best advice for you is to finish this one out to 26" maybe 27" and start another longer one for your thirty inch draw. Josh
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It will be overstressed even with a proper tiller. For red oak, I would go 64" n2n with an 8" stiff handle if your looking for a 28" draw. 30" I would go 70" especially since its your third bow.
Jon
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Thanks for the advice! I will probably go for 27" then. Ill continue to post my progress.
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Here's some good rules of thumb to help calculate your bow length.
1) Bendy handle bows with circular tiller: Minimum nock to nock will be double the draw length.
2) Stiff handled bows with eliptical tiller: Minimum nock to nock will be double the draw length plus 10%. That includes a 4 inch handle and 1.5 inch fade outs/7" non bending wood.
3) Stiff handled bows with elliptical tiller (alternate technique): Minimum nock to nock will be double your draw length plus 7" for the handle section.
Remember, those are minimums. If your tillering is excellent, you will make great bows at these lengths. But if your tiller is not all but perfect, the lack of leeway will make the problems worse. A little hinge on a longer bow has less effect then one that is pushing the limits of it's capacity.
Get after it now! Post pics as you go!
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Including the fades, there will be 7" of nonbending wood (handle area) that leaves 27.5" of working limb on each side. Does that mean i can pull the bow 27"? Also the bow will be backed with wood glue and linen and have a string made from 14 strands artificial sinew. What if i was to go for 50# instead? Would that give the bow a fighting chance?
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It will be a close race, but if your tiller is good you will have a fighting chance.
As for arti-sinew, it's one of the last choices I would make for a bowstring. Only a bit better than rubber band. Send me a private message and I will make you a Dacron B-50 bowstring for it.
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Hows the tiller look so far? To me both limbs are too stiff and the left limb needs to be lessened to match the right limb.
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What makes artificial sinew a bad option for a string? It seems pretty strong.
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Strong is not the problem. It's as stretchy as a bungee. It actually wastes energy and robs your arrow of speed.
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i gotcha. thanks for the offer to make me a string but would like to try it myself. going to order me some dacron right now.
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i gotcha. thanks for the offer to make me a string but would like to try it myself. going to order me some dacron right now.
That's the spirit! Making strings isn't hard and its much quicker and cheaper to make your own rather than outsourcing. There are some good videos on youtube about how to make them. I prefer flemish twist, but many others like endless loop strings. Either make a fine string.
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would this be a good assumption of what i would like to see from the bow?
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Hard to tell so far.how did it look @ floor tiller?
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Im not sure if i fully understand what floor tiller is. Can u explain it for me?
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If done properly your bow will be 7/8 tillered before putting it on a tree.
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So is it just when you bend the bow using the floor to see how its bending? What if u make it too weak in the process? And how can u see the imperfections that way?
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Like anything ,it takes practise.I think a majority of builders use this method with sucess.correct me if I'm wrong.when building an omlette ,one can not be scard to break a few eggs!lol!
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When I floor tiller I go until I get about 4" of tip movement and that means my bow is over 10# above the ultimate draw weight and in most cases 20# or more over. Floor tiller is your preliminary view of how well the limbs bend before you put it on the tiller tree. The sooner you get good limb bend the better chance you'll have of making weight.
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I will give floor tillering a try and post pictures. Thank you guys for the help
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Little more progress. Anyone see any hinges or flatspots or anything else wrong with it?
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In my honest opinion, I say cut it into 1 foot long pieces and burn it.
Go find yourself a hickory tree, and make a D bow.
That's what I would say to any beginner.
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Well thank u for your opinion but im going to keep on keepin on with this bow
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In my honest opinion, I say cut it into 1 foot long pieces and burn it.
Go find yourself a hickory tree, and make a D bow.
That's what I would say to any beginner.
??? That's not very helpful, or friendly, for that matter.
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Well i would say brace it higher. My minimum starting brace when i put it on the tree is with the string laying tight against the belly/grip, so tight you almost can't get your fingers underneath. If you've floor tillered it properly as mentioned, you may even get it to a two or 3" brace at this point. The long string lies. It makes the inner limbs look weaker than they are and the outer limbs look stiffer than they are.
Also, with a pyramid bow, you're looking for a circular tiller. Both limbs will fit on a circle (don't try to fit them on the same circle because the stiff handle section keeps that from working).
Like this:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/circulartillerb.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/circulartillerb.jpg.html)
the circles are a touch elongated due to the slight cant of the bow, but you get the picture.
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Thank you k-hat! I never knew that about the long string. Making bows is a neverending learning process!
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right limb looks good ,left limb needs to bend from tip to about 18 inches in . can you see where the left one stop bending towards the tip?
also don't listen to anyone that tells you to go burn that bow, it's looking good so far
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also, a tillering gizmo would work wonders on this bow!!
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,19540.msg269943.html#msg269943 (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,19540.msg269943.html#msg269943)
I didn't make mine with the nut. I found a round pencil, a drill bit a touch smaller in diameter, drilled, and it holds the pencil nice and snug. I can make fine adjustments by twisting and pushing/pulling the pencil through the hole.
Careful, if you make a gizmo and use it wisely, you'll finish tiller in no time and the addiction will only get stronger! >:D
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Haha it is quite the addiction already! Ive been wanting to try the gizmo for a while just never got around to making one but i think i will now. Thanks for the link and the advice!
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In my honest opinion, I say cut it into 1 foot long pieces and burn it.
Go find yourself a hickory tree, and make a D bow.
That's what I would say to any beginner.
??? That's not very helpful, or friendly, for that matter.
add one more Weylin, it's not helpful, friendly or an intelligent response, face to face we'd have "issues"
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hey Bubby I think face to face the only issue you have with him is that you would have to sit down with him and teach him how to make a bow . for him to say burn it chances are he failed many times at red oak bows or has never even tried . yet a lot of newbies turn out nice bows out of it . that's all I got >:D
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It's looking pretty good! Scrape the left inner limb (the half closest to the handle) for four minutes. I find it difficult to say how much wood to remove, but a duration often works. I don't know how many scrapes or how many grains of wood to remove, but it's just a guess.
The left limb will then be matched with the right limb. Then it is time to brace the bow! As said, the long string will lie. Put a short string on it soon, or you'll run a risk of messing up the tiller or coming in underweight. Gradually increase the brace height. Start with a string that is two inches shorter than the nock to nock length. Make sure to use a proper string and not some stretchy nylon or something.
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In my honest opinion, I say cut it into 1 foot long pieces and burn it.
Go find yourself a hickory tree, and make a D bow.
That's what I would say to any beginner.
Was that really necessary!?!? I vowed to play nice on here, but that post really tested my conviction to do so! >:( I wonder just how many people that bag on board bows have ever made one? I'm betting not many. Corius keep on keeping on. You're doing great. Don't let fools rain on your parade. They ain't worth it. Josh
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I don't post a whole lot but guys like Gun Doc and bubby is really what make this place go round. Not only are they willing to go out of their way to help new guys they will also correct others when they get out of line.
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I actually thought I typed that up and didn't post it, I apologize for posting it, not for thinkin' it but yeah for posting it, bub
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Hey Corius, how is that bow going 8)
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Sorry about that little outburst Corius. Sometimes my inner Chihuahua slips off the chain and runs out to bite someone on the ankle before I can catch the little bugger. I got all flustered and got off subject. As to the bow, its coming along nicely. Darksoul offered good council on how to proceed. Its usually at about this point, when the bow is just starting to bend and showing potential that I have to make a conscious effort not to rush it. Take your time and be conscious of every bit of wood removed from here on out. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your progress. Josh
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Thank you all for the advice! I havent had time the past few days to work on the bow due to the long hours the army has to offer. But this weekend i will go at it and post more progress.
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Something. That I learned from pearl drums was to make sure that all the edges are rounded like a small pea!I think this is an important step prior to tillering!
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how does the tiller look so far? its pulling 50# at 17"
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Looks like your about ready to brace. With the long string it looks like the left limb is still stiff on the inner half. When you brace it the tiller is gonna look a lot different. It will show more bend in the outer limbs. I would do a little more scraping on the inner left limb and brace it. Lingering to long with the long string has probably caused more bows to come in underweight than anything else. Its looking really good so far. keep up the good work. Josh
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your handle riser hasn't been faded into the limb, that is an important part especially as you get into the longer draws.
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1.5" brace pulling 50# at 20". i think i need to make it start bending more towards the handle. i usually wait to shape the handle until the tillering is done because i dont make bendy handle bows.
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That's looking pretty darn good! You are definitely ready for full brace. I agree the inner limbs will need to bend more, but get it braced so you know how much. Josh
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thank you gun doc!! i cant wait to finish this bow!!!
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quick question. i usually guess the length of the string, but how long would i make my string for a 62" tip to tip bow to make it fully braced at 7"?
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bow fully braced and then tiller at 20" with the bow braced
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7" full brace, tiller at 21". how does it look? the left limb is bending ever so slightly more than the right limb which may work out because the left limb is the top limb. Any thoughts?
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inner fades look like they need to move a bit more, what does everybody else think?
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Yep get those fades bending more, especially since this is a pyramid bow. With the front profile you have you want a more circular tiller rather than elliptical.
Jon
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will do. thanks for the advice!
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inner fades look like they need to move a bit more, what does everybody else think?
Looks that way
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50# at 24" almost there. hows it looking?
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fades still need work,
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Be carefull now as your outer limbs are gettine a little "whippy". Work it up into the handle some more and give us another look.
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Yes definitely work the fades. Your getting all your bend in the middle half of your limbs. Get the inner 5 or 6 inches working to relieve that. Josh
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The inner eight inches of both limbs are currently 'dead weight' since they basically do not bend at all. Don't remove wood anywhere else but the fades! Those last fours inches of draw length must come from the inner limbs.
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like has been said work the inner, I assume that your getting some set aren't you?
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I would have shaped the handle before tillering ,that way handle to fade transition is close,but that just the way I do it.
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I hear ya bushboy. I just get too excited to start tillering that i dont want to do the handle yet. But i got some pictures coming and thd handle is done.
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here she is at full draw!!! 50# at 27"!!!! i know the tiller is not perfect but it is the best i could do right now and itll work for me!!!!!
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there is just under 2" of string follow. not bad considering my first bow had 4" on one side and 5" on the other
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that's not bad man, its not perfect but considering that your fades weren't bending before i think you've accomplished a lot!
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thank u!!! those fades were a pain in the arse but i got them down as much as i could with the tools i have
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im going to be putting a coat of ebony stain on her and some deft finish and then im going to paint some kind of Native American design on the back. should be interesting.
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THE BOW IS FINALLY COMPLETE!!!! Thank you to all of you who have helped me on this journey. the bow is 50# at 27". i painted the design on the back. came out pretty good to me. this is one hell of a shooter. hits the target fast and hard!!! i cant wait to take it hunting and get my first deer!!! lots of time to practice too!!! once again thanks guys and gals!!!!
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Tiller looks pretty even!still suggest protecting your eyes while shooting in! I always wear safety glasses when target shooting no matter how many arrows it's shot!this is coming from a guy that's been in the trades for 25 years and have seen preventable eye injuries!good job C!
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Looks good! It appears that you are hooking it on the tree to take a picture. Hooking a bow on the tree for 10 seconds to take a pic is murder on a wood bow and will increase your set. Have someone take a pic for you so you could hit full draw for a minimal amount of time. I don't hook my bow past 18 to 20". This may help on your set.
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I never knew that. Thanks man. I will heed your words with future bows!!!
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Great looking tiller! SS
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That'll do....that will do 8) Nicely done sir! Josh
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Thanks josh!
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Been following this with interest. Nice job on the final product! 15-16" max on the tree for me.
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Thanks slimbob! Its a great bow now!
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Looks very good to me,funny how the tiller usually looks better when drawn in you hand than on a tiller tree. :) I finish tillering all of mine that way now. :) Nice job. ;) :) As far as eye protection,probably a good idea but I never use it, :-\if I am that afraid of one I just don't shoot it. :) If a pearson is that un easy he probably ant going to shoot it very well anyway. ;) :) :) I see no reason that that one shouldn't hold up looks like you have it drawn father on the tiller tree than you draw anyway so it should be safe. :)
Pappy
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Thanks pappy! This bow should survive for a while
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Gotta say, I'm impressed.
I thought it was going to chrysal and fail. :embarassed:
You worked that piece of wood well.
Good job! :)
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Thanks man! That means a lot based on your first comment ;) What does chrysal mean?
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It's when the wood becomes to compressed and usually breaks
It's usually near the fades.
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Gotcha. Thanks again!
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I cant get over how great a feeling it is flinging arrows with a bow i made. Thanks to all of you who helped me out. For my 3rd bow, i think i did pretty good! My next bow is going to be a mollegabet. Ill make sure i post my progress on here when i start it. Thanks again fellow bowyers!!
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Very nice! Congratulations!
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Thanks jawge!
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Ive shot many arrows through this bow and its still going strong! Ive decided i am an off-the-hand shooter now. Just gotta whip up some good hunting arrows now before deer season.
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This fish ain't just hooked, he's gut hooked. Reel him in! >:D
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Good job CORIUS sweet paint job and good tiller to !
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Thanks joe!
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Heres some arrows i made for this bow. I made 3 of each. Arrows are fletched with a south eastern style 3 feather fletch. Lashings are artificial sinew. Broadhead is sheetmetal and blunt head is a 7.62 shell. The shaft is a 3/8" dowel.
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Whoa, baby! Cool fletching, what are they from?
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Thanks!! The mutli colored one is pheasent feathers and im not sure what the black one is.
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Certainly eyecatching!
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Thank you! These arrows fly way better than expected! Cant wait to take them hunting!
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Just made a limb quiver out of cheap flip flops thanks to this video by dave canterbury
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeViH9Hhv5A&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Some pictures.
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Nice work , first good shooter sure feels nice dont it :)
If you gonna hunt with it im not sure i would have painted it White tho...but it looks good :)
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Thanks dbb!!