Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: wapiti1997 on May 02, 2013, 09:34:05 pm
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OK, I reduced a stave I traded blackhawk for, it was a really skinny stave with some reflex on I'm assuming the butt end. I got it close to bow stage and let it sit for a month.. Now I have it looking like a bow... I kept it as wide as possible nd ended up at 1 3/16 at the widest points. I kept the width to mid limb and tapered to 5/8 at the tips.. It is 61" ntn.. I'm hoping for 45-50# @28.
My questions are:
Is the handle section too long?
I braced it with a string that is too long for the bow.. one limb bends more than the other, the less bendy one is more reflexed than the other relaxed. I have not made a tiller tree yet.. so do I tiller for proper brace or to draw?
I did heat treat to straighten and put equal reflex, but once I exersized the limbs the "top" went straight the bottom retained it... Should I treat again? Was it not dry enough?
I did wait 3 days before doing anything after putting it on the caul.
This is the first bow I've taken this far.. It seems I've taken a lot of wood off the bottom limb, with no change in the braced appearance...
Thanks for any help :)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee423/joelacefield/0502131933_zps62724516.jpg) (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/joelacefield/media/0502131933_zps62724516.jpg.html)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee423/joelacefield/0502131935_zps45f5fb7a.jpg) (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/joelacefield/media/0502131935_zps45f5fb7a.jpg.html)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee423/joelacefield/0502131936_zps41cd25df.jpg) (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/joelacefield/media/0502131936_zps41cd25df.jpg.html)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee423/joelacefield/0502131937_zps51627039.jpg) (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/joelacefield/media/0502131937_zps51627039.jpg.html)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee423/joelacefield/0502131938_zps9c51dcfa.jpg) (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/joelacefield/media/0502131938_zps9c51dcfa.jpg.html)
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You shouldn't be bending it too much at this point or it will take on set. Both limbs bend too much in the fades. You're gonna need as much of each limb to bend as you can with a modest-sized handle, i would say you should be able to get ur desired specs tho.
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You might be pushing it being 61 inchs with a stiff handle wanting a draw of 28 inchs but with right tiller it should be ok
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Thanks, so I need to thin both limbs to evenly distribute the bend, with the area outside the fades being the "limiting" factor.
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Take wood off the outer 2/3 of the bottom limb until you get it close to being caught up with the top limb but be careful not to get the outer bending too much. You are gonna need all the limb you can get working for that draw length and that much stiff handle.
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I like to use a 4 in handle and use one and a half in fades that gains you 2 in of useable wood which can make a big difference
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The handle is not too long, but the fades are. Past the handle, there is at least four inches of redundant length in either limb. Make a more abrupt thickness decrease in the fades, so the actual fades will be about two inches long.
I'm thinking you strung this bow maybe too early in the process. The tiller at brace is not ready yet. You should have tillered more with either the long string or floor tillering, before you should have strung it. At this point, you can clearly see the tiller needs to be corrected, without even drawing the bow. Please do NOT stress the wood more than necessary to reach this brace! Don't pull it any until the tiller is corrected. I know how tempting it is to draw the bow a little now that you have a short string on her, but you really must resist the temptation. Get those midlimbs bending before you pull it any.
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Thanks! I thought the fades were too long... I don't have a bandsaw and have done everything with the draw knife. I don't get good results with a rasp but maybe that would be the best option for steepening the fades?
I've evened the limbs fairly well, at least according to a caliper. I haven't put the string back on. I noticed the top limb ( at least from tip to the first ring of the fade) was 1/2 inch shorter than the bottom. I've been working to correct that.
I could flip the bow over, but the feel is better in the hand with the limbs I've picked...
Keep the sugestions coming! I like the way this is looking so far, just don't want to mess up being this close..
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Is the fact that there is more reflex on the bottom limb causing it to appear stiffer? Should I heat it and put it on the caul again? I'm afraid of taking too much wood off to get there?
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Looks like your right on so far. That is quite a bit of handle though. The tiller process is always the slowest part for me. A gizmo and a tree would surely help though.
Knapper
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Looks like your getting good advice Joe...sorry been gone for awhile(classic)...I agree with shortening the fades down,and getting your tiller more even before stringing it....looks like one limb has a hinge as well...make yourself a tiller gizmo and it will show you where to scrape and where not to....
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Thanks everyone. I shortened the fades, and tillered more and put it back on the caul to add more relfex to the top limb only. It looks much better now, but the top is till ahead of the bottom.
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Beautiful bow . The bottom line is a fully bending or semi bending design is going to give you more draw length , which means more efficiency and possibly draw weight . I personally stick with a 5" long handle and VERY steep fades to get all I can from the bow . But that takes precision tillering . If I were you , literally , I would remove that thick handle and rasp her down to a semi bender . Sweet bow regardless . It'd make meat
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I've taken 3/4 inch off of each of the fades on the limb, it looks much better. I'm really not wanting a bendy handle, I wish I could have kept the stave longer but I didn't want a knot right below the tip.
With an all day rain Sunday, I got bored and added antler tip overlays, as I plan to use a FF string. I made a gizmo and am thinning the high spots... a little each day..
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A knot right below the tip wouldn't have caused you any trouble for future reference
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Here are some recent pics.. I have made progress, but still can't get the bottom limb to even tiller with the top.
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee423/joelacefield/0508130733_zps9bda5179.jpg) (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/joelacefield/media/0508130733_zps9bda5179.jpg.html)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee423/joelacefield/0508130733c_zps9e3886d2.jpg) (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/joelacefield/media/0508130733c_zps9e3886d2.jpg.html)
I shortened the fades. i'm tillering wiht the gizmo, and just checking eight... @ 20" it's 40#, so should I take off a whole ring to get my weight closer to desired, then fine tiller? By my guess, I'd likely be in the 65# range now at 27-28" I know, don't rush.. It just seems wrong in my mind to get perfect tiller, then have to remove a bunch of wood to get the desired weight...
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You still need to scrape more from mid limb and out...a lot of your bend is coming from the inner limbs and down by the fades...never pull past your intended target weight and NEVER past any issues in the tiller like hinges and flat spots,or having too much bend in one area of the limbs such as you have now. And weight wise you are closer to 60 pounds,and actually less once all done and shot in,and plus you need to scrape more to fix the tiller...so your prob only gonna get close to a 50 pound bow right now...so DO NOT remove another ring...it don't take much scraping and sanding from where your at to correct your tiller and hit your desired weight.
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x2 what Blackhawk said! :D
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x3. The difference in the thickness between a 65# bow and a 50# bow is remarkably small. I mention this only because your remark about getting the tiller right and then taking off a "bunch of wood" to get to weight. Depending on the set the bow takes, you could be very close to 50# after correcting the tiller and shooting it in. Good advise from Blackhawk that needs to be followed.
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That's why I ask!! Thanks everyone!
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Well, I scraped and gizmoed, and scraped.... so on and so on... it got to equal tiller with good curves... I checked the weight it was 45@26 and then sanded and smoothed.. I couldn't stand it.. I had to shoot it..
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee423/joelacefield/0508131636_zps89d0bf58.jpg) (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/joelacefield/media/0508131636_zps89d0bf58.jpg.html)
So far so good. I do notice some hand shock, not horrible, but more than I'm used to, but that may be the difference between a FG and a selfbow.. I twisted the string to reduce wrist slap..
Here are the tips, Do I need to thin and reduce?
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee423/joelacefield/0508131637_zps7b06eeb2.jpg) (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/joelacefield/media/0508131637_zps7b06eeb2.jpg.html)
I made the rest from a piece of elk antler and deer skin..
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee423/joelacefield/0508131636a_zps68f3505b.jpg) (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/joelacefield/media/0508131636a_zps68f3505b.jpg.html)
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Just don't rush it bromigo !! Let that rain make your bow making time die down a bit . I forget the length ( pretty sure i'll scroll up after to check ) but if it's less than 60" long your going to want more bending mid limb and more near the grip . And always reduce your mass in the outer extremes of a bow limb . No sense of adding mass to slow the bow down . And if you go to far , always good to reinforce the nocks in sinew . 8)
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I'm itching to comment on the tiller or the tips. But I just can't. You haven't posted any pictures of a drawn bow (only at brace) or of the width of the tips (front profile). So I can only make a guess here.
The bow still appears to be too stiff in the mid- to outer limbs. But perhaps that is just the angle of the pic. The tips are also a bit too thick, but I can't see if you need to thin them down, since I can't see how wide they are. Tips should never be bigger than ½" wide and 5/8" thick; they can easily be 3/8" wide and ½" thick if you're careful.