Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Christian Soldier on May 02, 2013, 09:50:50 am
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Hey yall, I've been watching a few archery vids recently where they say tend to demonize vanes and say how fleathers are pretty much mandatory if you are shooting off a rest/knucke, but then later won't hesitate to use DT vanes on arrows.
I got a glass bow recently (PSE Impala #45 @ 28, 60" long. $50 used) and shot some aluminum arrows with plastic vanes, some shots miss and some shots are dead on and I'll shoot great groups. I also occasionaly shoot arrows with DT vanes out of my wood bows and its the same way. It seems more like I'm much more of a factor than stiff fletching.
I know a lot of guys have used DT fletching at one time or another and don't condem it but vanes seem to be the offspring of the devil when guys are giving talks on Trad archery. I would think with the archers paradox and other factos (like the shooter) it wouldn't really matter too much but I'm still relatively new to this so I figured I'd get your thoughts on it.
So, are vanes really that bad?
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On a center shot bow with a rest, they're not that bad, but off the shelf they smack the bow and throw the arrow off course. feathers have some give so it's not a problem, but vanes don't collapse the same way.
If you shoot them off the hand you have the same issue plus some risk of getting cut.
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Hey yall, I've been watching a few archery vids recently where they say tend to demonize vanes and say how fleathers are pretty much mandatory if you are shooting off a rest/knucke, but then later won't hesitate to use DT vanes on arrows.
I got a glass bow recently (PSE Impala #45 @ 28, 60" long. $50 used) and shot some aluminum arrows with plastic vanes, some shots miss and some shots are dead on and I'll shoot great groups. I also occasionaly shoot arrows with DT vanes out of my wood bows and its the same way. It seems more like I'm much more of a factor than stiff fletching.
I know a lot of guys have used DT fletching at one time or another and don't condem it but vanes seem to be the offspring of the devil when guys are giving talks on Trad archery. I would think with the archers paradox and other factos (like the shooter) it wouldn't really matter too much but I'm still relatively new to this so I figured I'd get your thoughts on it.
So, are vanes really that bad?
Yes.
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Ya what they said
Feathers tend to fit trad archery better then plastics and with a little effort can be had for little or nothing put the wordout to friends and coworkers and before long you have Turkey duck and goose wings up the wazoo another bird that has great feathers is pea cock or hens and people often times want to get rid of at least some of them.
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Thanks! :)
I'm still a little unconvinced. IME feathers are better, but I'm not entirely sure vanes are so bad just yet. Maybe it'll take some more shooting for me to be more cynical :) .
I have plenty of feathers (and feather fletched arrows) but I recieved a dozen aluminum arrows as a gift and they seem to shoot alright. I'll shoot more with them later. I've also found I've actually cut myself much more with feathers beacause of the trasition not being quite as smooth, but that's my fault, not the arrow.
Have you guys ever used DT fletching for stumping or anything? I sometimes do and I thought others did too but it seems like you might as well shoot with your eyes closed with the accuracy yall say you'll get when shooting with vanes.
Your input is appreciated, Thanks again!
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if you need a quick fix for target shooting i don't see why you cant use vanes. i use them at the moment because they are the cheapest thing i can get. For hunting i don't suggest it and for accurate shots its probably not the best, but like i said, its going to give you more stability than a shaft without fletching
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Feathers are gods gift to the arrow maker, so yes, conversely plastic vanes are the work of the devil >:D. I agree with what has been said. The only drawback feathers have, that I can think of, is that they can become "matted" down when they get wet or are shot through a a wet haybail. But I know a guy who has a really cool secret substance he applies to his feathers to avoid this. look for his how to article in an upcoming PA. If they do get matted down try turning them over a jet of steam (such as from your kettle) to liven them back up.
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Good score on the PSE! vanes on an elevated rest (a stick on) will shoot great! I've had good luck 4-fletch with 2" vanes off the shelf,,,and I would not hesetate to hunt with vanes on a wet day to each his own!!! JeffW
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I have used vanes and I often do use vanes. They are cheaper than feathers.
not as durable for stump shooting, but are better in water.
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Try shooting some vanes off your hand and you'll quickly realize that feathers are better. >:D >:D I got the scars to prove it.
Jon
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Try shooting some vanes off your hand and you'll quickly realize that feathers are better. >:D >:D I got the scars to prove it.
Jon
If you aren't shooting a super fast high weight bow, they aren't that bad.
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Try shooting some vanes off your hand and you'll quickly realize that feathers are better. >:D >:D I got the scars to prove it.
Jon
If you aren't shooting a super fast high weight bow, they aren't that bad.
Squirrel your trying to tell me that shooting a thin piece of plastic even 100 fps right over your knuckle isnt going to hurt? I've seen a lot of your posts on threads making some pretty ridiculous claims, but you haven't posted a single picture to back stuff up. If you prove it great, but don't keep trying to post BS statements... On this forum we like seeing pictures, not just words until youve proven you know your stuff. Its starting to get on my nerves.
Jon
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Make a hole about the size of a dime with your thumb and index finger... Drop an arrow fletched with feathers and it will fall through, vanes won't. When shooting off the shelf or hand the feathers lay down easily as they slide across but vanes WILL wad up and kick off to some degree. Yes you can shoot groups with vanes but pay close attention to your arrow flight. My feathers always fly better and that is important for me especially in a close hunting situation for good penetration. Don't want my arrow kicking even the slightest amount because that will impede penetration. Try them through some paper. JMHO
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Try shooting some vanes off your hand and you'll quickly realize that feathers are better. >:D >:D I got the scars to prove it.
Jon
If you aren't shooting a super fast high weight bow, they aren't that bad.
Squirrel your trying to tell me that shooting a thin piece of plastic even 100 fps right over your knuckle isnt going to hurt? I've seen a lot of your posts on threads making some pretty ridiculous claims, but you haven't posted a single picture to back stuff up. If you prove it great, but don't keep trying to post BS statements... On this forum we like seeing pictures, not just words until youve proven you know your stuff. Its starting to get on my nerves.
Jon
There was that nice hand ground slate axe a while back
Sincerely,
the devil's advocate
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Try shooting some vanes off your hand and you'll quickly realize that feathers are better. >:D >:D I got the scars to prove it.
Jon
If you aren't shooting a super fast high weight bow, they aren't that bad.
Squirrel your trying to tell me that shooting a thin piece of plastic even 100 fps right over your knuckle isnt going to hurt? I've seen a lot of your posts on threads making some pretty ridiculous claims, but you haven't posted a single picture to back stuff up. If you prove it great, but don't keep trying to post BS statements... On this forum we like seeing pictures, not just words until youve proven you know your stuff. Its starting to get on my nerves.
Jon
There was that nice hand ground slate axe a while back
Sincerely,
the devil's advocate
I'll give you that.. Not really my point but your right.
Jon
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I think that you guys are thinking of the other SS(squirrelSLAYER) squirrelSLINGER hasn't posted anything ridiculous & seems like a pretty straight shooter
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Oh, and feathers are free(and better) just wait till the geese molt and you can pick up dozens near ponds and whatnot
I really like the sound of this magic feather sealing substance Carson, please tell me more!
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Short answer: Yes.
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I know they are two different people billy. No mistake here. if you look through some of squirrelSlingers stuff you will find some ridiculous claims. I'm actually starting to like Squirrelslayer a bit more. Hopefully he is on the right track.
Jon
Thanks.
I appreciate it.
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Look, all I'm saying is its annoying when you are evidently inexperienced, but make your claims as if they are one hundred percent correct. You admit in some of your posts that your bows aren't great, but when someone asks for advice you claim you have some incredible bows such as a 50" long ERC recurve bow that pulls 28"! I doubt some of the best bowyers on this sight could pull of such a bow. Its really starting to rub me the wrong way cause I am young (18) as well. B
I don't think I ever mentioned such a bow. But I do have a 55 inch cable back ERC that took soo much set that it is now a deflex-recurve bow. I think it will break if I remove the backing.
Christian Soldier saw it before I made recurved tips(duct tape, string, and some wood)- I posted it on S.org.
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Jon I know that your pissed, is this really worth the time and trouble, anyone that's done a trade with you knows you got skills and are a stand up guy, people shred there own reps on here, your's is solid, Bub
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OK Bub your right. I'm done.
Jon
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Okay, yall's opinions do carry serrious weight with me.
Now I can start blaming my vanes instead of just my bad shots! ::)
Seriously, my own error is definitely more at fault than my arrows and I've missed far with feathers and hit dead on with vanes but I think with a proper feather fletching job would be significantly supierior. I made the ones I have now last summer and the transistion is kind of rough, as the scar on my left index knuckle can attest too. ;) That was also before I learned about the higher knocking point for when you are shooting off the knuckle. :-[ . But I don't cut my knuckle too much anymore. ;)
I've got a new batch of arrows that are definitely getting some turkey feathers and this summer I'll revamp my old ones so the transition is a little smoother.
I litteraly went outside about five minutes ago and even put my hand right below the knocking point and the vanes still didn't cut my hands. However, I have tried to make DT Vanes into 'feathers' before and shooting those off the knuckle hurt a lot. :)
Jon, squirrel is young, still sometimes a bit brash and annoying, but he's around that middle school/freshman age where most guys think they know way more than they actually do. I can't judge because I know I wasn't too different a few years ago (I'm 16 now). I have seen a bow of his but, despite his great interest in primitive weapons, he's still pretty new and has a lot to learn.
Squirrel(regarding the above), just keeping it real man. I've had a few people give me similar critism before and it really helped me go in the right direction. Being able to take that constructive humbling critisim well is a big step in the direction of maturity. Guys need that.
To all, I might still use DT vanes for Stumping, but I'll stick to the feathers for serious work. Thanks guys!
:)
Dan
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Dan my only advice woyld be if you have arrows with vanes shoot'em til they get tore up and replace the with feathers, two fletch work great and use less feathers , Bub
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Jon, squirrel is young, still sometimes a bit brash and annoying, but he's around that middle school/freshman age where most guys think they know way more than they actually do. I can't judge because I know I wasn't too different a few years ago (I'm 16 now). I have seen a bow of his but, despite his great interest in primitive weapons, he's still pretty new and has a lot to learn.
Squirrel(regarding the above), just keeping it real man. I've had a few people give me similar critism before and it really helped me go in the right direction. Being able to take that constructive humbling critisim well is a big step in the direction of maturity. Guys need that.
Jon, I would like to apologize for being an idiot. I do that a lot... read an entire book series and think I understand what its saying. Learned that when I made my first bow- ERC needs some sort of tension strong back:o
Arrows.... that is another matter.
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Vanes do "buck" off a solid shelf. That being said and me being frugal/cheap. I have cut plastic vanes to emulate feathers cheap compromise. Turkeys have a way of passing away around my place if ya need some feathers PM me my feather bucket runneth over. No trade you can have some :D
Wildman
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Jon, squirrel is young, still sometimes a bit brash and annoying, but he's around that middle school/freshman age where most guys think they know way more than they actually do. I can't judge because I know I wasn't too different a few years ago (I'm 16 now). I have seen a bow of his but, despite his great interest in primitive weapons, he's still pretty new and has a lot to learn.
Squirrel(regarding the above), just keeping it real man. I've had a few people give me similar critism before and it really helped me go in the right direction. Being able to take that constructive humbling critisim well is a big step in the direction of maturity. Guys need that.
Jon, I would like to apologize for being an idiot. I do that a lot... read an entire book series and think I understand what its saying. Learned that when I made my first bow- ERC needs some sort of tension strong back:o
Arrows.... that is another matter.
I appreciate that Squirrel my boy. Your not an idiot, just inexperienced. You need to understand that a lot of people come to this sight (including me) asking for advice from the pros, and that you may not be the best qualified yet to give advice. You will be with time, you just got to accept that right know you should learn as much as possible before posting conflicting ideas. Like you said with your ERC. Learning comes with Experience!!!!! Not just reading the page of a book. Again, I appreciate the apology and again am sorry for being so forward, I'm looking eagerly ahead towards your progress.
Jon