Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: cool_98_555 on April 07, 2013, 11:44:11 pm
-
Hello everyone. I am in the process of making an osage selfbow with a stiff handle and I want to cut a center-shot arrow shelf into the bow. The bow will be around 85-90lbs at 30" and my limb width at the fades is 1 3/8". I have not carved out the width of my handle area yet. As a general rule, how thick does the riser need to be and how much wood do you need on the other side of the arrow shelf in order for it to be safe to cut a center-shot shelf into the bow? Any insight on this would be highly appreciated. Thank you.
-
in order for it to be true center shott you have to go past center, I don't know why guys want centershot on selfbows when it is really not needed, must be a hold over from glass bows, with the proper spined arrows you will get the same results, I seldom put a shelf on my bows, especially a cut in shelf, Bub
-
I wouldn't trust a center shot shelf on a bow with that high of a draw weight
-
Bubby: Center shots just look cool thats why lol. 8) its a new school thing, you old guys dont get it lol >:D
-
Bubby: Center shots just look cool thats why lol. 8) its a new school thing, you old guys dont get it lol >:D
Fifteen and can't stand arrow rest/shelves or stiff handles
-
Bubby: Center shots just look cool thats why lol. 8) its a new school thing, you old guys dont get it lol >:D
OLD :o, me? :laugh:
-
Bubby: Center shots just look cool thats why lol. 8) its a new school thing, you old guys dont get it lol >:D
They look horrible on a selfbow to me...
as has been said you DO NOT need any sort of shelf and doing so will seriously weaken your bow. To be able to cut a big shelf out then the handle has to be deep. Deep handles are way more prone to torquing when shot.
All these 'inventions' are ways of making archery easier and easier and easier. A shelf is just the same mentality as sights, stabalisers etc etc. Whats wrong with it requiring skill and dedication ;) after all these things are what make challenges rewarding.
Sorry for the rant ;)
-
Bubby: Center shots just look cool thats why lol. 8) its a new school thing, you old guys dont get it lol >:D
They look horrible on a selfbow to me...
as has been said you DO NOT need any sort of shelf and doing so will seriously weaken your bow. To be able to cut a big shelf out then the handle has to be deep. Deep handles are way more prone to torquing when shot.
All these 'inventions' are ways of making archery easier and easier and easier. A shelf is just the same mentality as sights, stabalisers etc etc. Whats wrong with it requiring skill and dedication ;) after all these things are what make challenges rewarding.
Sorry for the rant ;)
+1
-
as has been said you DO NOT need any sort of shelf and doing so will seriously weaken your bow. To be able to cut a big shelf out then the handle has to be deep. Deep handles are way more prone to torquing when shot.
All these 'inventions' are ways of making archery easier and easier and easier. A shelf is just the same mentality as sights, stabalisers etc etc. Whats wrong with it requiring skill and dedication ;) after all these things are what make challenges rewarding.
Sorry for the rant ;)
That's a bit of an assumption there. I've made 100's of bows that are close to centre shot and never had one fail including 80#+ recurves.
-
Hello everyone. I am in the process of making an osage selfbow with a stiff handle and I want to cut a center-shot arrow shelf into the bow. The bow will be around 85-90lbs at 30" and my limb width at the fades is 1 3/8". I have not carved out the width of my handle area yet. As a general rule, how thick does the riser need to be and how much wood do you need on the other side of the arrow shelf in order for it to be safe to cut a center-shot shelf into the bow? Any insight on this would be highly appreciated. Thank you.
Cool,
I am currently shooting one I made from hickory that is 52 lbs and 1/8 from center. I am almost finished with a 64 lb bow that is standard handle/shooting pass that is one inch wide and arrow pass will be 1/2 from center. The one that is 1/2 from center shoots just as good as the one that is close to center shoot. If ya set up a non center shot bow so at say 6.5 inch of brace and make the arrow contact spot near the front (back of bow) it will shoot fine. There is a little more paradox but the arrow shoot right where I am looking. Plus I think I am running into some lateral stability with my center shotish bow. I have messed around with the brace to get the arrows to not slap the handle lots and it still has a little slap which I think is a lateral stability thing. The handle at the pass is like 11/16 wide by 1.75 thick for 52 lb bow. I would not go less in depth.
Just MHO,
Greg
-
I like cut in rests....main reason consistantcy in where the arrow is, and more importantly I can keep a arrow knocked while I am stocking game (quietly) Each to their own.
VMB
-
This is one of those personal preference issues....nothing wrong with a cut in shelf as long as its done right....do what you wanna do and what makes YOU happy,and not because someone else says no just because they don't like them on THEIR own bows...your making a bow for you and not someone else I'm presuming
I'd say you will need to keep the depth of at least 1 7/8" with those specs where its cut..but the handle underneath can be a lil less...and add another 1"+ to your handle/fade section
-
The Native Americans did not need one and neither do I. >:D
Grady
-
I like'm for the same reasons mentioned, but i'm not stuck on them, i've made bows with and without. I do make it a practice of cutting in a shelf if i'm making it for someone else who is used to it or coming from wheelie bows. Makes them feel better and eases the transition imo. Never had any problem with it being weaker. I wouldn't try to go past center though, not worth it, the grip gets real ugly to me. A guy put some r/o board bows up on c****slist here recently with built up handles and cut past center... they are butt ugly imo and i can't believe anyone would pay what he's askin. Hope i didn't just make an enemy O:)
-
Hello again everyone and thank you for all the replies. My arrow shelf doesn't need to be center-shot, but I just think it's nice to have one. People keep saying that if you're going to cut an arrow shelf, make sure you "have enough wood in depth and behind the shelf" or the bow will break in the handle, but very few actually give dimensions of what is acceptable for the amount of wood that has to be there for it to be safe. I have made bows in excess of 70lbs without a shelf for years, but the reason I want a shelf in a high draw weight bow is because I want to challenge myself and see if I can do it. It would be nice to have a permanent place for the arrow to rest as well. Problem is that I do have a really good stave that I am working with, and it is very straight with no knots, so perhaps i'll go with no shelf for the draw weight i'm looking for. Perhaps I'll cut in arrow shelfs for lower draw weight bows, but i'm not sure yet. There was a time when I made a 90# hickory backed white oak that I cut a shelf into. Problem was that when I cut the shelf to center, I got back to 29" and it failed near the shelf. That bow was 72" as well, so I guess you learn from your mistakes. If I cut a shelf into this bow, it will probably not be quite center-shot or not have a shelf at all. Also, since I really want to aim for 85# and I love the full compass tiller, perhaps it would be better to just do another "warbow-like" bow like I have done before where it bends in the handle. Just not sure any more, haha!
-
Sorry cool, I don't know the formula; just wanted to get my 2c in. ;) Sure shelf bows are not native American replicas but that's not everyone's goal or preference. I think they can be functional and appealing and we shouldn't hate on personal preference. Many people suggested this bow would break on me but I've since probably shot over 10,000 arrows through it. good luck with it cool!
-
PAHunter, that is a nice handle design you have there. What is the draw weight on that bow?
-
Hey cool.. here's some pics of my cut in shelf style. I'm pressed for time right now, but if you'd like, I can explain the layout for you later this evening. Josh
-
A few of mine,but not all of them ;)
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=32310.0
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36840.0.html
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=36133.0
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=36860.0
-
That one is only 53#. I since have made them a bit thicker for safe measure.
-
Hello again everyone and thank you for all the replies. My arrow shelf doesn't need to be center-shot, but I just think it's nice to have one. People keep saying that if you're going to cut an arrow shelf, make sure you "have enough wood in depth and behind the shelf" or the bow will break in the handle, but very few actually give dimensions of what is acceptable for the amount of wood that has to be there for it to be safe. I have made bows in excess of 70lbs without a shelf for years, but the reason I want a shelf in a high draw weight bow is because I want to challenge myself and see if I can do it. It would be nice to have a permanent place for the arrow to rest as well. Problem is that I do have a really good stave that I am working with, and it is very straight with no knots, so perhaps i'll go with no shelf for the draw weight i'm looking for. Perhaps I'll cut in arrow shelfs for lower draw weight bows, but i'm not sure yet. There was a time when I made a 90# hickory backed white oak that I cut a shelf into. Problem was that when I cut the shelf to center, I got back to 29" and it failed near the shelf. That bow was 72" as well, so I guess you learn from your mistakes. If I cut a shelf into this bow, it will probably not be quite center-shot or not have a shelf at all. Also, since I really want to aim for 85# and I love the full compass tiller, perhaps it would be better to just do another "warbow-like" bow like I have done before where it bends in the handle. Just not sure any more, haha!
Give it a shot. Be careful though as 85 lbs letting loose all of the sudden sounds like pain to me ;) Let all of us know how it works.
-
A few of mine,but not all of them ;)
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=32310.0
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36840.0.html
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=36133.0
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=36860.0
Dang Blackhawk those are nice. Four bows over the holidays? You obviously don't have TV. Haha My approach for bow making seems to be that first I beat the idea to death with whoever I come in contact with, tell everyone I'm building a bow, pick up the wood three times a day to look at it, may even bring out a pencil to draw out some lines, put the wood back down not wanting to screw it up, find more people to tell, tell my idea to my poor wife for the zillionth time how good it's going to look, maybe even post pics of the uncut wood on face book. Check in the garage to look at my tiller tree and pulley system to see if anything has changed from the one bow I've made. I don't think I'll ever have the problem working on a bow that is green wood. It'll have wood rot or have fossiled by the time I'm ready. I have two hickory staves, and some bamboo /Ipe appreciating in my basement as I speak. Hmmmm.......maybe should go have a look at them . AGAIN!!
-
If you think real hard about it, primitive man didn't build primitive bows. He built state of the art equipment that was as efficient as possible for his time. So cutting a shelf in is just another way to make things that much more efficient.
An 1 1/4" width is pretty common for Osage bows between 50-70# depending on the density of the wood, but for the weight you're wanting, I'd go at a minimum of 1 1/2" for the width and 66-68" for the length. I would want to leave at a minimum 3/4" of wood at the arrow pass/window for that weight. Maybe 1 3/4" handle depth. Go for it. Good luck..........Art B
-
If you tiller as bad as I do you can get center shot with no shelf at all :'(
-
Thank you to everyone who has replied to this topic! I had no idea I would get such great replies, so thank you everyone. You know it's funny....originally I had planned on making the bow 1.5" wide at the fades, but it was recommended that I go 1 3/8" (because osage can take it, and because this particular piece of osage is almost as good as you can get for osage, so I can afford to go a bit narrower). I'll have to choose between those two. I feel more comfortable with 1.5", but since I am leaving the handle area nice and thick and i'm starting with 3/4" thick parallel limbs out to the tips (from the fades), I think 1 3/8" should be fine. I might find that when I get to the end I might not want to go for a shelf...I guess it depends on how I feel at the end of the tillering.
Yea if you guys have dimensions for your bows with cut-in shelves I would really appreciate that! :)
-
as has been said you DO NOT need any sort of shelf and doing so will seriously weaken your bow. To be able to cut a big shelf out then the handle has to be deep. Deep handles are way more prone to torquing when shot.
All these 'inventions' are ways of making archery easier and easier and easier. A shelf is just the same mentality as sights, stabalisers etc etc. Whats wrong with it requiring skill and dedication ;) after all these things are what make challenges rewarding.
Sorry for the rant ;)
That's a bit of an assumption there. I've made 100's of bows that are close to centre shot and never had one fail including 80#+ recurves.
I didn't say it couldn't be done :) Of course it's possible to make any draw weight bow with a centershot handle.
What I meant was that if the handle area hasn't been designed with doing this from the start it isn't the best idea to cut into what I would call a 'standard depth handle' on a selfbow to make it centershot.
My sentiment was that it just isn't necessary to do it in the first place but the world would be a boring place if we all thought the same ;)