Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: rapaport on March 22, 2013, 12:28:24 am
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I have been checking out these pvc bows and im surprised by the performance and elaticity and springiness of pvc. Is it possible to use pvc for the belly of a horn bow? Instead of sinew, wood core and horn. It would be sinew, wood core and pvc?? If it will work what kind of glue would hold pvc to wood?? If not pvc how about black plastic pipe found in the hardware store in the same isle as pvc pipe???? Very curious if its been done or if its possible?
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It would be a lot easier if you jus made the whole bow from PVC
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You need to go to a more engineered synthetic designed for high stress. Various types of phenolic with a linen or paper base are used successfully.
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James Parker(Robustus) made a bamboo backed, toasted boo belly "hornbow" that is incredable.
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Pat, any chance of a link on that?
My first thought to answer your question was... Yeah, carbon fiber, used all the time. I understand you wanting to play around with new ideas, and thats fine. But ( you knew there was a but in this ) why go through the hassle of using sinew and wood ( very difficult to do ) on something that is... well, not sure how to say it really. Folks use sinew and wood to avoid using modern materials is all. So if you wanna go with modern, go all the way. Try something new. PVC belly, with balsa core, and a matrix of old blue jeans soaked in resin for the backing. I wonder about using a matrix of bamboo leaves that have been retterd into fibers as a backing soaked in glue... That would be neat.
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You need to go to a more engineered synthetic designed for high stress. Various types of phenolic with a linen or paper base are used successfully.
+1
but pvc.....NO
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PVC....no.
That black plastic pipe near the PVC is probably high-density polyethylene, or HDPE. It is probably better than PVC but still a very bad choice.
You need a more sophisticated plastic such as carbon fiber or f!b€rgl@$$. But why not stick to true naturals such as horn and sinew or bamboo and bamboo?
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Bamboo is natures carbon fiber... especially when you heat treat the snot out of it....
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Use Bamboo. it is very good in compression as well as tension. I have many, many short bows made from bamboo belly cable back. they all shoot good for their poundage(like 20 pounds). They are recurved:)
Use good, thick bamboo. Its pretty tough stuff.
-Squirrel
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I.M.O. that's fiberglass.
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Yeah if your looking for a non-natural replacement for horn then Fiberglass is the obvious choice that is why its so widely used, but of course if you did that then it would only resemble a horn bow in design
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The popular horn bow makers are making fiberglass bows with wood syahs and then wrapping the limbs in leather. I know the horn is hard to find or expensive.... use fiberglass. It comes in black.
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I don't see how you are going to flatten PVC pipe or get it to form to the belly. What's wrong with using horn?
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It would be much easier to just make a pure PVC bow. Haters are gonna hate, but if you are curious check out the Backyard bowyers YouTube channel. He has made PVC bows that easily rival the best self bows (170FPS with a 50 pound bow).
Jon
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I've been making alot of pvc bows( I know curse me),like 15 in the last month...They are easy to make, start to shooting in about an hour and really great speed and performance...I love my wood bows but these are great for beginners or people who don't take good care of bows....This stuff is amazing...my latest bow , a recurve,pulls 60#@27 and is 50 tip to tip and shoots a 590 gr arrow in the high 180"s...
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I wanna see the chrono on that...
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Well it looks like no one has tried this. I was Just curiuos if someone just tried thinking outside the box to see if they might have come up with a great combo of materials with pvc. Considering new technology with new materials r always being created and out performing. Thanks for the expert opinions u guys r great.
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Ok, I just finished doing a search on PVC pipe bows. I had no idea such a thing existed. There is a whole sub-culture dedicated to this style of bows. Not exactly my cup of tea, but interesting none the less.
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Hey, rapaport, dont let the replies here mislead you... we are all telling you what we would or wouldnt do. Not what YOU should or shouldnt do... Either way, We will all wanna see whatever it is you make.
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There is a ton of vids on making and shooting pvc bows on youtube.
Some even look good :o
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Back to your original question, I think PVC would suck as a lamination. Bamboo will likely provide everything you need. In asian cultures, only the super rich ever had horn bows. they were a pain to brace, and needed comstant fiddling. Most of the foot soldiers had a wood/bamboo composite.
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Before proper fiberglass bellies were available plastic actually was a fairly common belly lamination. Nels Grumley used plastic salvaged from old refrigerators. I'm not sure what types of glue were available then for that type of bonding. Plastics are notoriously difficult to glue.
"Plastic" is a pretty broad term though.
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I've shot a couple of the PVC horse and recurve bows. Are they traditional in the most strict sense? Hellz no. Are they easy to make, good for a beginner, and awesome if you're lacking wood or other materials to make a truly traditional bow? You bet. The ones I shot were all between 50" and 60" long, using POC arrows with field tips. We didn't have a chrono, but I was nailing targets 30 yards out with no issues whatsoever with 40# and 45# bows.
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Pvc pipe and fitting are fussed with primer and glue in a chemical reaction.I think your only chance to glue pvc to wood ,would be some kind of JB weld or epoxy.the black pipe you spoke of is probally ABS,it to is fused through a chemical reaction and is for plumbing,not for all natural material bow building.
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the pvc bows I've seen shoot really slow compared to a good wood bow.
Horn isn't that expensive. $30 a pair. Not much more than fiberglass these days. I have one of James Parker's bamboo turk bows that is a horse bow style bow but with bamboo belly and it is a great bow but not an easy one to pull off for a bowyer. He worked at the design for a long time before he got it right.
I was re reading Dr Grayson's chapter on composite bows the other day while traveling. He stated that horn can handle 4000 lb per inch compression and that Turkish bows generate about 2500 lb per inch when drawn. You aren't going to find that ability with any man made material.
You can use modern glues with horn. Urac 185 or unibond works well.
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If ya heat the pipe up till its a limp noodle and flatten it out and taper the tips..Pvc makes a fast shooting bow
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I.M.O. that's fiberglass.
Bamboo IS nature's fiberglass, even looks like it when you split it:)
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I.M.O. that's fiberglass.
Bamboo IS nature's fiberglass, even looks like it when you split it:)
It also hurts just as much when you run your un-gloved hand across a rough portion of it. :o
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It also hurts just as much when you run your un-gloved hand across a rough portion of it. :o
Very. It will also cut you open if you are not careful when you split it! the edges are SHARP
I have some scars to prove it...
-Squirrel
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Thanks guys, i guess the plastic or pvc would have a difficult time glueing. It would be an interesting expierment. I just picture horn kinda like plastic. but now i see just because it might look like black plastic its function is totally different.
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Thanks guys, i guess the plastic or pvc would have a difficult time glueing. It would be an interesting expierment. I just picture horn kinda like plastic. but now i see just because it might look like black plastic its function is totally different.
look more at the stucture than the shine; Tightly packed fibers that are "glued" tpogether.
Edit:typo
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I guess I'm bias. Here is my latest harvest of horns from a few local slaughter houses here in Thailand.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg15/bamboo_archer/horns_zps58e3fdc5.jpg)
I would say if you are going to make a pvc bow go for it but I couldn't imagine going to the work to do a wood core and sinew and use pvc for the belly.
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I guess I'm bias. Here is my latest harvest of horns from a few local slaughter houses here in Thailand.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg15/bamboo_archer/horns_zps58e3fdc5.jpg)
I would say if you are going to make a pvc bow go for it but I couldn't imagine going to the work to do a wood core and sinew and use pvc for the belly.
I am beyond jealous!