Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: simson on March 09, 2013, 05:43:27 pm

Title: golden chain tree take down 53/28 (No. 21)
Post by: simson on March 09, 2013, 05:43:27 pm
This bow is made of billets, which are split out of an 40" and 3" diameter sapling. You sure know, golden chain tree has a wonderful contrast of heart and sap wood. So I decided to leave at least on tips and fade area a natural grown overlay of sap on the bow. Unfortunately the next ten or so rings just below the the sap were rather thin and very spongy because of the high ratio of early wood - I had to work down to the good rings.This is the reason for the relative high overlays and the high crowned limbs (back side of limb only about 1" away of pith center). Because of the high crown I decided next to try a hollow limb design again, in this case excessive. The limbs are only two rings thick, but heavily crowned / hollowed out. The back side has cured to a darker color than the belly and sides - it was laying around for months, belly and sides shows the fresh lighter color because of tillering. After a few further month the color of the heart wood will be a chocolate brown.
This is my first try on a take down. It is done with self made take down sleeves, which came out a bit too bulky for my taste. Next time I will try some smaller diameter pipes.

The billets were too small to fill the the depth of the sleeves, so i glued on some leftover pieces from this stave.

The lower limb looks a bit weird just below fade, but the bow is well balanced and shoots very good. I'm absolute surprised.

This bow pulls so smooth and is incredible fast - I don't know is it the extreme design or the bow wood. I will search for a small diameter osage and try the same design - then we will see ...

specs:
65,5" ntn
5" braceheight
53# / 28"
stingray leather inlayed as arrowpass
string: 6 strands of 452X strengthened at the ears

enjoy ...



(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0528_zpsf1e4319d.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0527_zps70b5aed1.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0529_zpsce6ef1b7.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0535_zps083a2da2.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0611_zps2553538f.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0609_zpsdc0aee93.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0616_zps0fe3d414.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0641_zpsf8252b03.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0640_zps2d4eca2c.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0627_zpsb0558233.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0629_zps685b72aa.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0630_zps8c0486c4.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0642_zps59d542df.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0613_zpse704ee34.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0614_zps9b9a220d.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0602_zpsa6de1aee.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0601_zpsc7f18c07.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0600_zps75e7a01b.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0603_zps259149d5.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0604_zps63746671.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0606_zps24545258.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/_DSC0605_zpsf2389e95.jpg)

Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Arrowind on March 09, 2013, 05:47:53 pm
That's amazing.  I love the tiller.  the concave belly is incredible.  The finish excellent.  beautiful colors.  Just amazing!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Dean Marlow on March 09, 2013, 05:50:12 pm
Now that is totally amazing. I still can't figure out how you could even tiller that bow. What beautiful wood. That is one of a kind for sure. Thank you for sharing. Dean
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: lesken2011 on March 09, 2013, 05:50:39 pm
That is one fine piece of work!! 8)
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: dwardo on March 09, 2013, 06:00:58 pm
Very special indeed very nice. Tell us more about the concave limbs please.
Stunner. 8)
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: hatcha on March 09, 2013, 06:09:17 pm
That bow is stunning and beautifully finished!!

Are you worried that the grain run-off on each limb from the grip might cause it to split?  Or are the run-offs sufficiently away from any working/stressing wood?
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: H Rhodes on March 09, 2013, 06:17:37 pm
That is a beautiful bow. 
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: randman on March 09, 2013, 06:26:20 pm
Beautiful Simson! Love everything about it. Looks a lot like Black Locust. Those concave limbs are really influencing me. Got a couple I'm trying. What is the handle wrap material?
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: JonW on March 09, 2013, 07:08:56 pm
You sir are a true craftsman. Very nice bow.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2013, 07:09:43 pm
Very nice Simson. The concave limb design is quite impressive. And the takedown system is nicely excecuted.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: blackhawk on March 09, 2013, 07:15:18 pm
AWESOME! !!!!  :D
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: bow101 on March 09, 2013, 07:16:54 pm
       
Stupendous work, very nice, it takes much imagination to thrill the few....!!! "101"

Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: SLIMBOB on March 09, 2013, 07:29:29 pm
Exquisite in every detail!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: The Gopher on March 09, 2013, 07:34:44 pm
That is so crazy in a very cool way!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: MWirwicki on March 09, 2013, 07:46:40 pm
Really nice, Simpson!  Are my eyes playing tricks?  Is that belly dished out?  Also, what finish did you use.  Its incredible.  Very cool!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Slackbunny on March 09, 2013, 07:51:13 pm
Now that is cool!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Badly Bent on March 09, 2013, 08:35:31 pm
 Your skill level at bow craft and artistry amaze me Simson. Incredible work there, keep em' coming. :)

Greg
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: spyder1958 on March 09, 2013, 08:56:20 pm
Wow & WOW, Simson you are the man.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: wildcat hunter on March 09, 2013, 09:06:42 pm

 That is amazing! You are a true artist, beautiful work.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Will H on March 09, 2013, 09:12:10 pm
You are an inspiration man! That bow is awesome!!!!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: rps3 on March 09, 2013, 09:43:21 pm
That is so beautiful, wow!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: WarBird on March 09, 2013, 10:08:40 pm
That is a seriously wicked bow. I love those concave limbs.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: chamookman on March 10, 2013, 05:16:55 am
I am in awe - well done Sir ! Bob
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: soy on March 10, 2013, 05:47:36 am
WOW!!!Bravo that is as cool as it gets rite there :o
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: mikekeswick on March 10, 2013, 06:36:36 am
Thats an interesting bow....and an excellent finish!
You should be careful not to step down through the rings on the back when doing takedowns, keeping one ring intact all the way into the tube is the way to go. It's not too much of an issue at the tips because there is much lower stress and no bending but still risky.
It would be a shame to put so much work into a bow like this and then have it split at a ring violation.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Wolf Watcher on March 10, 2013, 08:30:49 am
Very well done!  This bow makes you fall in love with wood in the hands of an artist!  Joe
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: BowEd on March 10, 2013, 08:43:16 am
Fantastic bow.Very unique piece of wood.I've never heard of it.You are at a level beyond my criticism.You are your own worst critic on this one.The only thing I've seen close to this would be an elderberry bow with the hollowed out limbs.Beautiful job.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Holten101 on March 10, 2013, 08:54:57 am
Fantastic bow.Very unique piece of wood.I've never heard of it.You are at a level beyond my criticism.You are your own worst critic on this one.The only thing I've seen close to this would be an elderberry bow with the hollowed out limbs.Beautiful job.

Golden Chain = Golden Rain (both makes sense when you see the flowers) = laburnum.

To OP...fierce bow mate:-). I dont get the hollowed out design (such thin ridges to take so much compression, and then the stability question)...but you did it and I can only imagine the effectivness.

Very nice....awsome finish:-)

Cheers
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: burn em up chuck on March 10, 2013, 01:53:58 pm
   crazy cool, wow. beautiful wood, way to think outside the box dealing w/what you had, and not heating your  shop w/it. AWSOME !!!!!!

                                                                                chuck
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: kinslayer1965 on March 10, 2013, 02:42:06 pm
That is awesome!!!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Zion on March 10, 2013, 03:14:00 pm
That is AWESOME! Never heard of that wood but that thing is COOL looking! You make some sweet bows man!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: nathan elliot on March 10, 2013, 04:07:37 pm
Just cant beat a bit of Laburnum. Nice man!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: simson on March 10, 2013, 04:40:44 pm
Thanks fellas for your kind compliments.

Will try to answer some questions

Finish: homemade oil mixture of several ingredients (somethingg like danish oil), this stuff hardens out.

Hollow limb design: it isn't such difficult to do, just leave the 'edges' round to get not to much stress there. Thickness here is same as in middle of limb. See here:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,34915.msg460154.html#msg460154       and there:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,34898.msg459925.html#msg459925
here on PA were several interesting discussions on hollow limb design
this is the most extreme hollow limb design I did so far

Laburnum: don't know if this wood grows in US, I have goggled the name for it ...

Overlays on ahndle and tips: are not at working parts of the limb - so I do not expect any problems of that


Thanks again!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: nathan elliot on March 10, 2013, 06:30:42 pm
Laburnum is Golden chain tree or Laburnum anagyroides. See this thread- http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,16446.msg226024.html#msg226024
Are you in Germany? Some really good Laburnum in Germany-
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/nathanelliot_bucket/summer%20bows%202011/022.jpg)
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: rhansen on March 10, 2013, 07:08:25 pm
Wow, awesome bow!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: missilemaster on March 10, 2013, 08:20:21 pm
Dang.....................not much more to say!!!!! :D
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Josh B on March 10, 2013, 09:56:05 pm
Beautiful bow Simson!  I got all excited thinking I have one of these trees in my yard that needs pruning.  But alas, my tree is a golden RAIN tree.  No where near to even close to the same thing.  Once again, beautiful bow sir!  Josh
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: coaster500 on March 11, 2013, 12:05:36 am
Whoa, that's an impressive work of art!!!!

Yes SIR!!!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: danny f on March 11, 2013, 04:52:02 am
i really like this bow, the hollow centre looks great.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: mikekeswick on March 11, 2013, 04:52:25 am

Overlays on ahndle and tips: are not at working parts of the limb - so I do not expect any problems of that



[/quote]

You may not expect them! I understand what you are saying but trust me it is risky. I've been there done that and have the t-shirt. I'm not just spouting :)
Have you ever tried spliting labernum? ;)
Laburnum anagyroides is the latin name.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Pappy on March 11, 2013, 08:34:12 am
Beautiful work,very cool bow for sure.Hollowing had to take a lot of time and looking like you have done a nice even job of it. I have to agree on the tips,but that's just me.Hope that don't give a problem. Nice job. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: simson on March 11, 2013, 11:58:07 am

Overlays on ahndle and tips: are not at working parts of the limb - so I do not expect any problems of that




You may not expect them! I understand what you are saying but trust me it is risky. I've been there done that and have the t-shirt. I'm not just spouting :)
Have you ever tried spliting labernum? ;)
Laburnum anagyroides is the latin name.
[/quote]

O.k. we will see if it holds together. No risk - no fun. Anyway thanks for your advice.
btw. this not laburnum anagyroides, but laburnum alpinum. But I think there is not much difference in wood and behavior.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: simson on March 11, 2013, 12:03:06 pm
Laburnum is Golden chain tree or Laburnum anagyroides. See this thread- http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,16446.msg226024.html#msg226024
Are you in Germany? Some really good Laburnum in Germany-
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/nathanelliot_bucket/summer%20bows%202011/022.jpg)

Nathan I have seen some of your great bows on PP! This made me hungry on laburnum. Could you please say something about the qualities of the sapwood? On your bow above is the complete sap on, wright?
And yes, I'm in Germany.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Christian Soldier on March 11, 2013, 03:13:50 pm
Great work man. Very inspiring. I've got to try making one of these takedowns now. Any advice?
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: mikekeswick on March 11, 2013, 03:41:57 pm
Labernum sapwood works just fine in tension. You have to be careful not to use the sapwood if there is any hint of a black line between heart/sap.
Labernum works just like yew, the sapwood is lower density than the heartwood and can give a mildly lower limb weight than an all heartwood limb.
I personally rate labernum at least as highly as the best yew. Here in England it is hard to get yew with good density (not impossible :)) but pretty much all the labernum has been high density. It will make the heaviest warbows just like yew and can handle the same cross section. Labernum is very elastic and has great compression tollerance but also just like yew low bend resistance.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Carson (CMB) on March 11, 2013, 07:11:34 pm
That is an absolutely incredible bow Simson.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: nathan elliot on March 11, 2013, 07:33:02 pm
Like Mike said sapwood seems fine. As mentioned the main trouble is de-lamination of sap and hart wood. I only use the sapwood if it is a nice yellow colour, like you mentioned they can rot when seasoning, well its more the sapwood that gets the mold really.

Your bow rocks! I love what you did with the sapwood at the handle.
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Stefan on March 12, 2013, 05:25:38 am
Simson,

I am interested in making my own takedown sleeves. What  was the outside diameter in milimeters of  pipe you started with this time and what would use next time?  I want to get round pipe fit it in each other and pres it  in a vice till it is oval shaped.

I love your bow and still have some laburnum billets, I hope it turns out half as nice as your bow

stefan
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Jodocus on March 12, 2013, 05:33:20 am
This is a really great bow. I know laburnum wood looks way more beautiful in nature than on pics cause of the light-breaking effect. great work, nice pics as well.

 :-*
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Jmilbrandt on March 12, 2013, 05:47:10 am
That is an incredible bow! That laburnum is beautiful and I love the hollowed out limbs!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: simson on March 12, 2013, 08:25:18 am
This are the tools for hollow limb design, followed by sandpaper rolled over sticks with matching diameter:

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/P1010384_zpsc6f673c6.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/P1010385_zps5bf671bd.jpg)

Here is a quick sketch of the cross section it is almost a bit more of a third of circle

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/P1010386_zps10571f59.jpg)

and the pipes I used for the sleeves, the outer one had a diameter of 40 mm and is 1,5 mm thick - the inner tube is matching in diameter. Put both parts together and clamp it in your vice you will get the oval shape in the pic. One tip: make the iner tube a little bit smaller in diameter (sanding) so that it goes really easy in and out, before clamping! Next time I will use about 36 mm diameter for the outer tube and will get a more egg shape cross section.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/P1010381_zps3553241d.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/P1010382_zps4ccfb13e.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/golden%20chain%20tree%20take%20down/P1010383_zpsf03d00ad.jpg)
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: simson on March 12, 2013, 08:58:43 am
Thank you all for your interest
Special thank to Mike and Nathan for the info about sapwood!
Title: Re: golden chain tree take down 53#/28"
Post by: Buffalogobbler on April 06, 2013, 09:02:27 pm
WOW!!
THAT IS A COOL BOW!!!

Kevin