Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: tgtmatt on February 19, 2013, 11:37:46 pm

Title: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: tgtmatt on February 19, 2013, 11:37:46 pm
I went out today after school while it was lightly raining to cut down a fairly decent sized black oak log and when I split it both sides twisted and warped so the bow is absolutely no longer flat. I don't even think it would be usable. Are there any reasons why it would split or did I just do a terrible job?
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: bow101 on February 19, 2013, 11:43:52 pm
Just the nature of the beast. Food fibre under tension. Ever cut much on the table saw and had it pinch the blade and even kick back on you..?
I read a strange but true fact about wood sometime ago. In the old days they would split Granite rock using wood dowels placed into the holes. The dowels would be spaced about 2 feet apart or so and every day some guy would soak the dowels with water, when wood swells nothing will stop it not even rock. So after a while the rock would end up splitting.
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: tgtmatt on February 19, 2013, 11:49:16 pm
I'll post some pictures of it to show you guys. Very depressing to see it go unused. Fire wood it is.

That's amazing, everyday I find a new thing that wood can be used for/do. It really is an amazing thing. Thanks for the fact:)

Matt
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: Weylin on February 20, 2013, 12:48:17 am
post a pic before you scrap it. There is an acceptable amount of twist that can be safely ignored in a bow. It might not be firewood.
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: Pat B on February 20, 2013, 01:01:13 am
You get twist in a stave when the tree grows in a spiral. When you split out a stave it splits along the grain. If the grain wraps around the tree it will split in a spiral. This is a common occurance in trees so you have to study the bark well to be sure it doesn't grow that way before you cut it.
 Some twist is acceptable in a wood bow. Some more twist can be removed from a stave and some have just too much. There is a sourwood tree I can see from my kitchen window and have a deer feeder nailed to that has 360 deg twist in about a 6' section. That is extreme twist.
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: tgtmatt on February 20, 2013, 01:04:25 am
Thanks guys, I'm going to go snap some pics real fast.

Don't go anywhere(;
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: tgtmatt on February 20, 2013, 01:17:34 am
What do you think?
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: tgtmatt on February 20, 2013, 01:18:05 am
One more.
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: Youngboyer2(billyf) on February 20, 2013, 01:46:44 am
Don't burn it, you can use dry/wet heat and bend that out
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: Newindian on February 20, 2013, 01:54:49 am
It looks pretty long you might be able to just cut it out, if you can't it's not that bad you could heat it out
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: Puma on February 20, 2013, 01:55:32 am
I don't know anything about bowmaking but I've got my fair share of knowledge concerning trees.

It's the wind twisting the sapling that causes the split to be irregular.
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: tgtmatt on February 20, 2013, 01:57:57 am
Should I debark it and seal it, then straighten it with heat after it's dryer or should I debark it and try straightening it while it's still full of moisture?
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: Pappy on February 20, 2013, 06:53:07 am
I would debark,cut down close to bow size /seal it and steam it out while it's green,if you let it dry you can use dry heat but it may get worse as it dries if you don't clamp it to something straight. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: Del the cat on February 20, 2013, 09:52:17 am
Nah, that's not twist...
That's just 'straightness challenged'
I've heard one theory that even in places where there's not much wind and a tree is growin up dead vertical it can still twist due to the leaves trying to follow the sun as it crosses the sky.
Dunno if it's true, but just think how your neck twists when a pretty lady walks past :laugh:
I've not worked with Oak, but on something like Hazel or Yew that wouldn't be a prob' just lay it out slightly diagonal and ignore it.
If you wait for something to split straighter than that, you'll have a long wait and a big pile of firewood.
Del
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: crooketarrow on February 20, 2013, 11:18:06 am
  That picture the wood did'nt twist after spliting. The (grain) wood had already grew stwisted.
  Very few woods twist unless the staves are split really small. I've only cut and split 2 oak logs I did'nt have any twist in them.  Light weight woods like sassafras will twist.
  Those woods I let dry whole or split in half.  At least let it simi dry before I split into staves.
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: The Gopher on February 20, 2013, 11:55:20 am
yeah i think you can work with.

HHB can have some extreme twisting too, but is fairly easy to see on the bark.
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: Buckeye Guy on February 20, 2013, 12:47:14 pm
What you mean it is not supposed to look like that !
I thought that was the way it's supposed to be !
 
It will be fine !!
Show us your bow when you are done !!
Guy
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: tgtmatt on February 20, 2013, 02:23:18 pm
I'm going to debark it within the next few days, cut the straightest part out then seal it and straighten it as much as I can.


Thanks guys. I'm going to start stocking up on as much staves as I can so they can season while i'm in college for the next four to eight years. Lots of time for good wood to season:)
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: dbb on February 20, 2013, 05:07:56 pm
I've heard one theory that even in places where there's not much wind and a tree is growin up dead vertical it can still twist due to the leaves trying to follow the sun as it crosses the sky.Dunno if it's true, but just think how your neck twists when a pretty lady walks past
Del

Oh its true alright! I live in northern sweden and in the summer the sun just dips at the horizon before it rises.
Thats a bowyers curse because everything that doesnt grow shaded is twisted like a pretzel.
Just 500 km south that isnt the case(they dont have the "midnight sun" there)

/Mikael
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: dwardo on February 20, 2013, 05:43:06 pm
Its like a pair of in ear headphones, hear me out.  :o
We always wonder how they "always" get so tangled up rather than just being neat n tidy.
Its because there are more combinations of tangled than there are of neat n tidy. I guess trees are the same just poor odds for a nice flat plane. But we live in hope :)

He says sat here with a load of prop twisted and knotty wood.
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: JW_Halverson on February 20, 2013, 11:19:24 pm
I have talked with foresters about why one ponderosa pine tree is straight grained as an arrow and the tree next to it is a barber's pole and they have never been able to tell me.  I proposed it was wind, but then they pointed out to me that the tree I was looking at grew up in a crowded forest. If one tree would be twisted by the wind all would have been twisted!  Who knows.

Whatcha got there shouldn't be too bad to unscrew if you do it 8" at a time with a heat gun after it has cured.  If you take it down to near bow dimensions, you can even steam sections and unscrew it enough to bind it down to a 2x4 to cure out.  Just be sure to seal the back!
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: tgtmatt on February 20, 2013, 11:32:13 pm
Thanks for all the information everyone.

I might split the larger piece in half long ways to thin it out because it is fairly wide as of now and I think I could get it down a bit. But I'm not sure yet, I'll figure it out over the weekend.
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: gianluca100 on February 21, 2013, 04:29:57 am
What about cutting 2 shorter straight pieces and splice them together?
I used this method with extremely twisted elm and it worked fine.

ciao,
gian-luca
Title: Re: Reasons a log will twist when split?
Post by: Jodocus on February 22, 2013, 11:45:55 am
I've heard one theory that even in places where there's not much wind and a tree is growin up dead vertical it can still twist due to the leaves trying to follow the sun as it crosses the sky.

I get the impression that the dead straight pieces are almost always twisted. I cycle down a long avenue of chestnut trees daily, and thei're all, every single one of about 500 trees, twisted the same way around. Opposite to how the sun goes.