Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: richardzane on February 15, 2013, 03:21:55 pm

Title: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on February 15, 2013, 03:21:55 pm
kinda interested in domesticating some shaft material,
i'm finding wild rose a bit unpredictable as far as spine. some work fine, but after all the reduction and sizing, too many end up
as kids arrow shafts.
I'm thinking of planting viburnum and red osier near the shop and wondered if anyone here is already growing their own?
If so, any favorites?
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Dan K on February 15, 2013, 03:32:34 pm
Great thread!  I'll be following this one closely.  Not sure if your interested in bamboo shafts but Pat B had this to say in my thread yesterday.
  If you can find Bambusa multiplex it is a clumping type(non-invasive) and makes excellent arrows...and fishing poles. 

I liked the non-invasive part for around the homestead.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: richardzane on February 15, 2013, 08:53:58 pm
thanks Dan,
for the tip about the Bambusa multiplex .
non-invasive is important to me too on our property... though honestly i'd be thrilled to have all kinds of shaft material to be growing along our creek.

I know i have found great shafts from my moms viburnum on the side of her house, I'm working on a set of arrows from that now.
they are amazingly strong spined even after reducing them to 11/22  but i'm looking to find a number of plants
that can adapt easily and "cultivate" well.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: trad bow on February 15, 2013, 08:57:30 pm
I have transplanted river cane in the creek bottom in front of the house. Haven't harvested any of it yet but have been straighting it as it is growing. Looks good compared to what I harvest out and about in the swamps. I spray it to keep out the ants also.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: turtle on February 15, 2013, 08:58:17 pm
Ive been thinking about planting a couple of dogwood bushes and would love to get some rivercane started. I dont have access to either in my neck of ghe woods.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: richardzane on February 15, 2013, 09:04:28 pm
I actually tried transplanting some rivercane along my spring ,but it seemed to actually be TOO wet for it where i put it.
After starting out well and sending up good shoots the spring branch flooded and soon after the cane rotted.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Wind D Ranch on February 15, 2013, 10:00:51 pm
I planted some river cane, Japanese arrow bamboo, and a viburnum in my yard.  None of it is big enough to use yet, but I'm sure looking forward to seeing which one works best for arrows.  I also want to learn how to weave baskets from the river cane. 
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: trad bow on February 15, 2013, 10:05:08 pm
The cane we have down here in the Ga swamps spends several weeks under water when the rivers flood and that doesn't seem to bother it. I have noticed that after the third year alot of cane will die on you because of ants bedding inside the cane hence why I spray my best patches. The best cane actually grows further away from the creeks. Higher and drier makes a slower growing and thicker wall cane. Nodes aren't as pronounced either. Although you will have 4 or 5 nodes compared to the cane growing near or in water which generally has 3 nodes per arrow length.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: JackCrafty on February 15, 2013, 11:48:28 pm
I've got some Texas kidneywood and some persimmon shoots growing from a few stumps in my back yard.  I hope to coppice more of these if I can learn to plant them instead of depending on the occasional new growth here and there.   ;D
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Lemos on February 16, 2013, 12:18:03 am
I'm growing Japanese arrow bamboo in half a barrel, this should be the year it really takes off.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Pat B on February 16, 2013, 12:52:04 am
I have hill cane naturally growing along my driveway and creek, Blackhaw viburnum growing in my woods and I planted silky dogwood along the creek. I'd like to plany arrow wood viburnum.
 Bambusa multiplex is cold sensative and won't grow here in the mountains of Western NC. It does grow along the SC coast. Probably USDA Hardiness zone 8 and 9. It might grow in a large pot or container that you bring inside during the winter if you live where it freezes hard.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Dan K on February 16, 2013, 02:51:23 am
I say we all just pack up and move next door to Pat!  He seems to have this all figured out ;)  Seriously, thanks for all the ideas Pat.  I'll be planting stuff in my yard and my wife will be amazed at how much I'm helping her.  If she only new I'd be cutting it all out in a year or two.  Maybe we should all grow a few different things and then supply each other with a variety.  I plucked a few ocean spray shoots (I think this plant is indigenous only to the North West) and they were stone stiff even wet.  I'm anxious to get a few arrows made up to try them.  I hear their tuffer than nails.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: heartrnurse on February 16, 2013, 02:54:31 am
Lemos,  I just brought to barrels of japanese arrow bamboo from florida here to Colorado when I moved.  I keep my stuff in the house till it warms up in the summer....any other tricks you have for keeping it good?  mine is young and has a couple years yet to reach maturity.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Dan K on February 16, 2013, 03:04:43 am
Don't mean to but in heartnurse and I don't know how long you've been in Colorado but I spent 35 hot dry summers there.  I recommend you keep you boo in a greenhouse type room if you can.  My mom did pretty good keeping hers alive outside on the patio but she tended to it every day.  Hope this helps.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: heartrnurse on February 16, 2013, 12:38:31 pm
Thanks for sure! They need loads of water...I will definitely go the greenhouse route.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: twisted hickory on February 17, 2013, 11:52:05 pm
If you live near any creek or wet swampy area red osier should be there by the ton. Maybe I am lucky but last harvest day produced over 100 shafts in 3 hrs along a small stream. If your idea works post it:) my niece said just cut then jam shoot in the ground and it will grow if done in wet soil.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Pat B on February 18, 2013, 12:42:13 am
Now would be a good time of year to do hardwood cuttings. I have also che shoots from silky dogwood and just jammed them along the creek that runs through my property and they rooted well.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Arthur.s.Pankratz on February 18, 2013, 12:59:37 am
do any of y'all know what would make arrows in the hill country north of San Antonio, TX?
i haven't been able to find anything really decent around here :(
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: twisted hickory on February 18, 2013, 08:40:58 pm
Not really sure of Texas. River cane? Do ya have any ornimental maple?
On a side note if ya have pigs down there could I come down next winter and help you find some shoots and maybe shoot a hog? I could bring a couple dozen red osier shafts for ya.:)
Seriously though I would trade some red osier for some decent quality flint/obsidian
Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Mikeeeeeeeeee on February 20, 2013, 10:37:54 pm
A few weeks ago, I decided to embark on archery. Having shot compounds years ago, I wanted to go traditional. Then I discovered self bows. Then I found this site. Now I'm hooked.
So, I began looking for switch cane. I drive 52 miles round trip to work. There are at least 10 places along the way where I can park on the side of the road and walk a few feet and cut.
I dug some up and planted it along my creek.
Then today I cut my first pieces to begin drying.
Cant wait to make my own arrows.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: crooketarrow on February 21, 2013, 12:48:55 pm
  I do n't grow my own persay but the woods on the farm I live on has a unlimit surply of ALt. DOG WOOD as well as all the viburums you can cut walking fence rows and rock breaks.
 I have planted 1000's,100's of dog wood seeds on farms I hunt on and 2 that I manage but it's none for cover as well as turkey food. There's lots of shafts there
  We don't have red osier dog wood here, but would trade some alternet dog wood seeds for red osier.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: dans89 on February 21, 2013, 09:13:46 pm
I've been contemplating planting either Japanese arrow bamboo or tonkin bamboo, but I'm also in Colorado. Maybe it'll be ok in some buckets inside??
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Gus on February 22, 2013, 02:17:01 am
Definitely be planting some Cane or some type of Viburnum in the yard here in Houston this year.
Might drive up toward Livingston and hunt Dogwood on public land.

-gus
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: richardzane on February 22, 2013, 11:41:03 am
crooketarrow sounds like youre in ideal arrow shaft country...here in NE OK theyre a little sparse.
how ya fixed for dogbane? been cutting stalks this morning
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Dan K on February 22, 2013, 12:33:17 pm
I'm trying to learn as much as I can about "free" natural materials and have been enjoying searching through the woods. Unfortunately, I don't know what a lot of these plant you're mentioning look like.  If you can post some close up pics of the shafts and pics of the plants it'd be great help!
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: richardzane on February 22, 2013, 01:48:58 pm
actually Dan,
you'll find a lot of pictures when you use google and do an "image" search:
try: dogbane, red osier dogwood, alternate dogwood, silky dogwood, viburnum or arrowwood 
they'll often have maps to let ya know where it grows too.
It can help in identifying trees too,since there is some regional variation  even among the same tree types.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: crooketarrow on February 22, 2013, 03:23:17 pm
  RICH it dos'nt grow around here. I've never used dog brane before. I be willing to trade for a couple dozzen.
  Any shoots 2 years or older will make arrows.
  The straighter the better it all depends on how much work you wish to put into it.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: richardzane on February 22, 2013, 09:56:29 pm
 Dogbane is great for making a strong natural fiber bow string....not arrows  :)
Its a reddish hollow stalk and the fiber is strong.. I have a dogbane string on a #50 hackberry - its very tough.

The stalks have given me some ideas though...I think it could make a pretty cool woven quiver,
that way it could serve as back up stalk material for a string that broke on a hunt.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Lemos on February 22, 2013, 11:40:34 pm
Heartrnurse I never really give mine much thought ,I picked it up from a job where we dug out a power transformer the guy there was mowing it down yearly and said I could take all I wanted so I stuffed what I could in two buckets and after forgetting about them for a couple of weeks by which time they had dried up pretty well I planted them in a barrel half. Year one gave me quite a few little shoots, so I'm expecting some bigger canes if it follows like most bamboos.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Dan K on February 25, 2013, 04:38:10 am
One shoot I've found here in the NW is Ocean Spray.  I gotta say it's as straight as it gets right out of the ground.  I could leave the bark on, fletch nock and shoot these.  Not sure if Ocean Spray grows anywhere else though.  It grows wild and not sure if it's transplantable.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: bhenders on March 11, 2013, 01:32:46 pm
I've had some Pseudosasa japonica  (Japanese Arrow Bamboo) planted for several years but kept moving it around.  Finally have it in the same place for the third year and should be able to cut some two year old clums this season.  It's root hardy down to 0 but not top hardy.  Most of the leaves died last month (Feb in central Michigan was COLD) but the clums should leaf out in May.  It's a runner so you may need to keep it under control.  Mow around it or dig a trench around it and fill with leaves.  The runners are very shallow and you can cut them off in the trench every year.  Very straight clums, with long nodes and leaves directly off the nodes. 

When making arrows, align the nodes with the arrow nock... ie... nodes on top or bottom of the arrow (that will put the stiff side of the clum against the bow ).
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Wind D Ranch on March 13, 2013, 07:38:36 pm
I'm glad to hear Japanese Arrow Bamboo is hardy in Michigan.  This is the first winter outside for mine in Northern Missouri and I was a little worried about it.  It looks fine so far other than leaf burn.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on March 15, 2013, 02:45:31 pm
Try that great stuff called Honeysuckle, it is a bit invasive:(
It is sort of like easy-straightening cane, and grows faster, and its nodes are a lot less pronouced. Plus the walls are thicker than RC(river cane).
Honeysuckle makes good arrows- primitive style. it loses strength if you thin it too much, and can split if you do not make the foreshaft correctly. I use the arrows mainly with a 50 pound recurve bow(Sadly, fiberglass back/belly, wood cored, I only make longbows), and they are fast and hard hitting. Quite heavy.
I intentionally prune the bushes a certian way each year, it makes a large number of 1/2 inch shoots grow.
I can also make bows from the wood of the big, thick bushes. it is very close grained, very heavy, with big, thick growth rings and very little spring growth(if any). I think it is a diffuse-porous wood.
-Squirrel
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on March 21, 2013, 01:10:24 am
I have found a shrub/tree that grows in a lot of wooded areas around here. Don't know what it is but it has fairly straight shoots. I have cut a few and have them in the shed now, hanging straight as possible. I have to find out what this is & if it's any good. Seems like it would be.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on March 21, 2013, 01:21:22 am
Take a pic.
At least give us a good description.
-Squirrel
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on March 21, 2013, 02:27:56 am
I will take a pic this week and try to post. I don't usually have much luck at it. This is a shrub or tree that grows up to 6 or 7 feet that I have seen. Most of the limbs are somewhat straight. The ones I cut are very springy.

Is it better to season shoots/limbs with barn on or off? Can they be kiln dried?
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on March 21, 2013, 07:58:20 am
I would leave the bark on for the initial seasoning, and cut your shoots extra long- they like to check(split) at the ends.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on March 21, 2013, 12:09:50 pm
it may seem obvious ,
but i have found that its best to label shoots or in the next couple of years you'll be guessing.
its frustrating when you work down a good spined shaft and you don't even know what it is, to be able to go get more!
I use a piece of masking tape on the end of the longest shoot in a bundle
this morning i cut some green hazel shoots so:    hazel (grn) 3/2013
put a blob of elmers or woodglue on the ends before storing your bundles. I store them up on end
leave the bark on for a couple months ..after that you can scrape and straighten roughly.

I made an arrow press for getting kinks out of the thicker shoots...it works great!
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Pat B on March 21, 2013, 01:22:16 pm
Patnc, where in NC do you live. That will help with the plant ID.
 Some shoot material you can remove the bark right away but most you should leave the bark on or they will check. I use sourwood shoots for arrows and can scrape the bark off as oon as I cut them. I have even quick dried sourwood under my wood stove, fresh with the bark stripped off and they never check. Viburnum on the other hand will check terribly if you remove the bark too soon.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Dan K on March 22, 2013, 04:23:46 am
This thread has me on the hunt!  I found some red dogwood (red osier) along the highway by my house.  Cut about three dozen shoots.  Most of them are so straight and could be used as they are.  I need a little help though cause I've never done this before.  I cut them all to 32" long so I have enough to straighten or cut off if they check (Don't know if red osier checks).  I bundled them all in six-packs and tied them firmly to hold them as straight as possible.  I stacked them horizontally on a table in my shop.  I have a few other really straight shoots of unknown type that are bundled the same way.  Should I glue the ends or anything else I need to do to these and how long should I wait?  I read somewhere I'm supposed to straighten them before debarking.  Is that true?    I'm building a spine tester to check them so don't waste time on shoots that don't fit my bow. 
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on March 22, 2013, 10:13:20 am
wow...sounds like you're very lucky to find such a haul !! I'm envious!!!
from limited experience, but with successes, i would immediately seal the ends of all the shafts with some cheapo glue.
this is the time of year when they are sucking up sap from the roots, and when you cut them the shoot is still sucking...when it sucks air
it dries quickly and as a result HAS to shrink.

they'll be sappy and flexible ,so any dry heating won't really do any permanent straightening...till a couple few months go by.
I'd tie them up in small bundles just hand bending and flexing,until they are all laying fairly straight in a row.

unknown shoots:
I was working on one unknown last night,cussing myself for not marking what it was , because the spine is excellent!
unknown shoots can make great arrows, but they won't teach us anything, other than "dang! what the heck wus this?"
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on March 22, 2013, 05:37:21 pm
Take a pic. Someone might be able to identify it.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on March 22, 2013, 08:07:26 pm
could have done that, yeah...
but the "what's it?" shaft is already reduced to 11/32 and has great spine - going in with a set of hazel arrows i'm building now.
the bark looked a lot like a wild cherry shoot, horizontally striped , it was at least a year old.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: DuBois on March 22, 2013, 10:35:27 pm
I have a red osier plant in my yard and have noticed them all over now that I know what to look for.
I did some cuttings and have about 30 that are sprouting buds but not sure how to get the roots and it is still too cold here to get them outside.
Same thing with some very straight small purple plum shoots.
Hoping for the best and also for some nice sapling bows from the plum. >:D :laugh:
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Dan K on March 23, 2013, 06:00:59 am
Thanks RZ. I with you on the dang!  The unknowns are bound to be the best shafts. Just how life works for me too. I see a bunch of talk about Hazel. Is hazel and hazel nut the same thing?
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on March 23, 2013, 11:09:43 am
Dan,
thats a good question about hazel....I don't know.
 this is what the hazel here looks like. shrub like. it only grows on the west facing side of our limestone bluff.
doesn't seem to get very tall or tree like here ...have never noticed nuts on these, but my neighbor picks nuts off his.
it is solid wood...no pithy core.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Dan K on March 23, 2013, 06:10:49 pm
Looks the same as west coast. It grows more clump like here but same type of shrub. I've cut a few shoots and they seem like they'll work. I'll try them out and if they work ok maybe we can trade a few shoots to compare.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on March 25, 2013, 07:46:53 pm
Try that great stuff called Honeysuckle, it is a bit invasive:(
It is sort of like easy-straightening cane, and grows faster, and its nodes are a lot less pronouced. Plus the walls are thicker than RC(river cane).
Honeysuckle makes good arrows- primitive style. it loses strength if you thin it too much, and can split if you do not make the foreshaft correctly. I use the arrows mainly with a 50 pound recurve bow(Sadly, fiberglass back/belly, wood cored, I only make longbows), and they are fast and hard hitting. Quite heavy.
I intentionally prune the bushes a certian way each year, it makes a large number of 1/2 inch shoots grow.
I can also make bows from the wood of the big, thick bushes. it is very close grained, very heavy, with big, thick growth rings and very little spring growth(if any). I think it is a diffuse-porous wood.
-Squirrel

All the honeysuckle I ever saw was vines, never a tree or woody shrub. Where do you live? Maybe you have a different variety there.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on March 25, 2013, 09:31:41 pm
ncpat,
thats what i thought too!  till i googled honeysuckle shrubs !
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on March 25, 2013, 09:38:03 pm
honeysuckle shrub
see:   http://www.nyis.info/index.php?action=invasive_detail&id=44
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on March 25, 2013, 10:28:30 pm
This stuff is everywhere I live. I will take pics next time I go sling, there are some HUGE bushes there, I made a bow last year from one with a 3 inch diameter branch. some of the hardest, heaviest, strongest wood i have ever touched.
It ruined a plane blade and 2 surform rasp plane blades, as well as dulling my hatchet.
-Squirrel
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: randman on March 26, 2013, 02:51:52 am
In addition to the vast amounts of hazel and ocean spray we have in the wooded city parks around here (Seattle), I have a rose and a Butterfly bush (Buddleia Davidii) in the front yard I pollard every February. Butterfly bush makes great arrows. Then I have 2 mock orange and a large viburnum in the back yard. Don't even have to leave the house for more arrow material than I can use.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on March 26, 2013, 10:59:04 am
randman.
sounds like you have it made! that was the whole purpose of this thread
BUTTERFLY BUSH?
thats good news! I was looking at those shoots in my wifes flower garden(lustfully)
now i'm going to be hinting to my wife ours need some serious pruning :) :)
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Pat B on March 26, 2013, 11:27:17 am
Butterfly bush blooms on new wood so pruning it helps it flower more.  ;D
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on March 26, 2013, 12:24:19 pm
perfect!  :)
actually my wife now says we'll need to buy some more butterfly bushes..they do smell awful nice too.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on March 26, 2013, 06:17:48 pm
ncpat,
thats what i thought too!  till i googled honeysuckle shrubs !

I learn something every day. I am taking a limb from a nearby shrub to a nursery and see if they can ID it. My wife thinks it is some type of privet. I don't recall privet having such straight limbs.

We have a tulip tree that looks to have a few very straight limbs. I may cut a few of them and try them out later too.

Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on March 31, 2013, 01:57:36 am
In addition to the vast amounts of hazel and ocean spray we have in the wooded city parks around here (Seattle), I have a rose and a Butterfly bush (Buddleia Davidii) in the front yard I pollard every February. Butterfly bush makes great arrows. Then I have 2 mock orange and a large viburnum in the back yard. Don't even have to leave the house for more arrow material than I can use.

Sure looks good.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on March 31, 2013, 02:00:09 am
A friend gave me a few wild rose shoots this week. Not very straight but I stuck them in scraps of c onduit to see if they straighten some while drying out.

I finally ordered some points & nocks from 3 Rivers to try making a few arrows from dowels and a few from limbs.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on March 31, 2013, 12:04:25 pm
yeah widrose can be pretty knarly. :) It takes me some long hikes (Christmas morning is my favorite for foraging long treks)
to find the straightest and the toughest. the ones i've had most success with are oversized 1/2" at the base and red brown to grey bark.
ones that are less can end up under-spined and they seem to shrink too much.

One of my faults has been to reduce EVERY shoot I find to 11/32 as if its a magic number... :o and i'm FINALLY realizing not only does it risk weaker spine
its just not completely necessary. so... i'm planning larger dia. on this past years batch of wild rose and see if it helps.
I've gotten myself so conditioned to 11/32 shafts i can almost eyeball it...so this'll take some getting used to.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on March 31, 2013, 12:23:42 pm
Either here or another forum, someone mentioned a doweling jig you can buy to make dowels from scratch. Anyone familiar with it? I have some white pines in the yard & eventually 1 or 2 may have to come down. I understand white pine is a fairly good shaft. I could cut some 30 or 36 inch sections and make a lot of shafts from them.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on March 31, 2013, 04:42:37 pm
I was thinking again about the arrows I am about to make. These will be 1/4 inch, very light, for my daughter's 20 lb bow. I had been thinking I'll have to use factory nocks as a 1/4 dowel or limb leaves little nock left if I slot it. But might it work if I split and inch or so down the middle with a knife, a clean split, soak in hot water then open a nock of sorts that way? Keeps the thickness but with a V split. I could then use a small file to square the V just a little and could wrap under the split with heavy thread. Has anyone tried this?
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Pat B on March 31, 2013, 05:22:42 pm
You would be better cutting in self nocks and wrap below with sinew.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on March 31, 2013, 10:12:54 pm
You would be better cutting in self nocks and wrap below with sinew.

That would take about 1/8 inch out of a 1/4 (2/8) inch shaft. Wouldn't that be a very weak self nock? Maybe I could make a sleeve from a .25 shell casing and cut nock then, smoothing edges down?
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Pat B on April 01, 2013, 10:50:14 am
If the arrow is tuned to the bow and shooter and flies well all of the pressure is on the bottom of the nock and not the sides. the sinew wrap will prevent the shaft from splitting.
  You could also flatten a small section on both sides of where the nock will be and add small flat pieces of wood, horn, etc to creat a nock. You will have to round the edges. Some flight shooters use the method because their arrows are so small. Dan Perry did an article in a past issue of PA about building flight arrows and used this method.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on April 01, 2013, 08:12:48 pm
I saw 2 interesting shrubs at Home Depot today. Sweet olive and recurve ligustrum (interesting name). Both have fairly straight shoots that seem sturdy enough. Has anyone seen or tried these? A friend also let me cut some shoots from his yard, unknown variety. Just shoots from the ground. 
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on April 01, 2013, 08:15:01 pm
If the arrow is tuned to the bow and shooter and flies well all of the pressure is on the bottom of the nock and not the sides. the sinew wrap will prevent the shaft from splitting.
  You could also flatten a small section on both sides of where the nock will be and add small flat pieces of wood, horn, etc to creat a nock. You will have to round the edges. Some flight shooters use the method because their arrows are so small. Dan Perry did an article in a past issue of PA about building flight arrows and used this method.

Good point. I will try self nocking. Speaking of flight archery, I never found much through the years to read on it. Never heard of anyone in my neck of the woods doing it. The few I heard of tended to be out west, as I remember.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: bubbles on April 20, 2013, 01:01:19 am
I cut some butterfly bush that I found growing wild (i think it's an invasive), just to see if it would make a good arrow.  Unfortunately, I de-barked it to get it to season quicker and ended up with big checks all the way down to the pith.  It seemed pretty dense, and even with the checks seemed like it would make a good arrow. This was about a 1/2" round (I always cut my shoots big and reduce them down in 1/16"ths and check spine from 3/8" down to whatever spine I want)  I tried to break it and ended up with this:

Took a lot of strain and all of those splinters  slowly popped one by one, instead of one big break/snap like most woods.  I was pretty impressed.
Would probably make a good arrow and and bow as well, if you can find it big/straight enough.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: randman on April 20, 2013, 08:25:08 pm
Yeah Bubbles that stuff is tough and durable And they only get woodier and stiffer as they season. Never had any check but I always leave the the bark on for a while as they dry pretty fast anyhow. Mine are usually about 3/8".

I've always wondered about it makin a bow since I've seen some pretty big stuff (mostly in peoples yards) and some amazing bows out of shrubs. Haven't tried it though.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Pat B on April 20, 2013, 09:57:47 pm
NCPat, sweet olive is probably autumn olive(Illiagnus [sp]) and the legustrum is the botanical name for privet. You probably already have lots of both already growing you. Both are invasive exotics.  I know privet will make very good arrows but don't strip the bark until they are completely dry.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on April 24, 2013, 09:24:46 am
I cut some butterfly bush that I found growing wild (i think it's an invasive), just to see if it would make a good arrow.  Unfortunately, I de-barked it to get it to season quicker and ended up with big checks all the way down to the pith.  It seemed pretty dense, and even with the checks seemed like it would make a good arrow. This was about a 1/2" round (I always cut my shoots big and reduce them down in 1/16"ths and check spine from 3/8" down to whatever spine I want)  I tried to break it and ended up with this:

Took a lot of strain and all of those splinters  slowly popped one by one, instead of one big break/snap like most woods.  I was pretty impressed.
Would probably make a good arrow and and bow as well, if you can find it big/straight enough.

At least the broken one will make good kindling and tinder for the fire next winter. LOL
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: bubbles on April 24, 2013, 12:47:18 pm
Haha, Butterfly bush - the 5 second feather stick.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on April 29, 2013, 10:21:27 pm
LOL:)
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: ncpat on July 03, 2013, 10:33:29 pm
I saw a few references here & elsewhere to crepe myrtle shoots being good. Has anyone tried them much?
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Hillbilly on August 12, 2013, 01:00:26 pm
I have planted river cane, hill cane, arrowwood Viburnum, sweetshrub, American hazlenut, silky dogwood, and some others that make good shafts. All are easy to grow. I have also coppiced sourwood saplings before to get a supply of shoots. Road banks that are cut every couple of years, and logged areas are also good spots to collect shoot shafts.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Hillbilly on August 12, 2013, 01:30:56 pm
NCPat, white pine and tulip poplar both make excellent split/dowelled shafts. the tulip poplar shoots are not very good, but split poplar wood makes great shafts. You don't need a doweling jig, you can hand-plane them easily with a small thumb plane that you can get at Lowe's for about $6. I even plane down most of my shoot shafts to adjust diameter and spine. Here is a matched set of shoot shafts from a dozen different species: sourwood, silky dogwood, arrowwood viburnum, witherod viburnum, sweet shrub, buffalo nut, chinese privet, bush honeysuckle, hazelnut, salt cedar, multiflora rose, and white ash.

Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on August 12, 2013, 02:45:11 pm
very nice looking shafts hillbilly.

seems my own ancestors used to prefer split hickory for shafts, but i've yet to try splitting any wood for shafts.
still stubbornly bent on making shoots work,for now anyway!
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Dan K on August 14, 2013, 04:40:17 am
Either here or another forum, someone mentioned a doweling jig you can buy to make dowels from scratch. Anyone familiar with it? I have some white pines in the yard & eventually 1 or 2 may have to come down. I understand white pine is a fairly good shaft. I could cut some 30 or 36 inch sections and make a lot of shafts from them.

I bought one of these and it works really well.  I haven't tried it on shoots yet but have some oversized ones that have been drying now for several months and plan on runing them through to see how they spine out. 
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Swatch on March 30, 2014, 07:04:16 pm
The best arrows I ever made was from a hickory board that I bought to make a bow with. After cutting the bow portion off I was able to cut the remaining piece in half. Then I cut them into 3/8" squares 36 inches long. Since the hypotenuse of 3/8" right triangle is 1/2" I created a jig with a set of 1/2 flat washers mounted on with small screws and glued in place. I can mount this on my router table. I then take a 1/4" to 3/8" socket adapter and put in in my drill motor. I turn on the router and using the drill to spin the squares through the holes I end up with a round shaft. Some sandpaper and a few strokes up and down and the shaft is done. I heat straightened it and made some arrows from it. They were the toughest arrows in my quiver. I shot them straight into rocks and had them just bounce off. They are really good arrows. They made my POC and Ash arrows look like balsa wood when compared with durability and strength.

Steve
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Crogacht on July 11, 2014, 03:53:22 am
Maybe me if I can figure out what this shrub in the back yard is.

I've seen a few of them around the neighbourhood with some really nice perfectly straight arrow sized shoots anywhere from 4-8 feet long on the real big ones, but I'm not sure what it's called. It's just some everyday garden shrub. I'm not even sure if the shoots are suitable, they are fairly bendy when still attached to the plant, but so is 1/2 inch green bow wood, so I definitely want to give them a try.

Anyway, my point was, I looked out my window the other day and realised I've actually got one of these shrubs on my own property  ::), it's just a bit hidden by other plants. The shoots on it are nowhere near as nice as the ones I've seen, but probably good enough for testing before any surprise neighborhood complimentary pruning jobs  >:D

I'll get a picture of it tomorrow. I'm in New Zealand, but it's not native, so maybe someone knows what it is.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on July 11, 2014, 11:03:23 pm
Crogacht
I'd like to see it.
I made a bowstring from the native flax that grows in NZ.(muka korani) that stuff is incredibly strong.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Crogacht on July 11, 2014, 11:46:54 pm
Crogacht
I'd like to see it.
I made a bowstring from the native flax that grows in NZ.(muka korani) that stuff is incredibly strong.

I have messed around with NZ Flax a bit too, extracted the fibres, but never got as far as making a bow string. What did you think of it compared to B50 for example.

Here are a few pics of that shrub and the flax in my garden :D

It is midwinter here, but the shrub has still got a few leaves on it. Also, this is the most pitiful speciman of this plant I've ever seen, the shoots don't look impressive at all... I'll get a picture of the one down the road next time I go past, they look very good.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Crogacht on July 12, 2014, 12:53:48 am
The shrub actually has a couple of flowers left over from autumn/fall, I think, so here's a picture of them also.

And I took a photo of the same shrub down the road that is pretty much all shoots from 3 foot - 7 foot long. Picture is not great, but most of what you can see are perfectly straight arrow sized shoots.

Also, can someone yell at me if this is too off topic, I don't won't to wreck your thread.

EDIT: Have looked at a few pics of flowers... it actually looks a lot like a variety of Vibernum... wouldn't THAT be awesome :D

EDITEDIT: Maybe Prague Vibernum? Getting excited about this  :D
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on July 12, 2014, 10:43:17 am
I'd definitely bundle some shoots up and season them for a year with the bark on.

The flax string i haven't put on a bow yet...but it's VERY strong fiber...stronger than dogbane i've used.
put 6 long fibers in your hand and pull..it was used for fishnets and ties on ocean going Waka (Maori canoes)
Maori have taught me there are different varieties of flax. the fiber kind is the one i mentioned above.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Crogacht on July 12, 2014, 05:29:33 pm
Ok, I'll cut some shoots soon :D

Yep, it's definitely strong. I'll have to try it sometime.

There are lots of varieties of flax, but there are a couple of ones used traditionally for weaving and other things, but I'm not sure there are too many of those around, at least not that I know of. I'll try some different varieties and see if some work out better than others.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Pat B on July 12, 2014, 07:13:57 pm
Looks like one of the viburnum to me. Give it a try. The viburnum I've used will check easily if the bark is peeled too soon so let them dry for a while before peeling the bark.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Crogacht on July 12, 2014, 08:58:39 pm
Awesome, I think it's Viburnum too. What variety I'm not sure, there are nearly endless types, and the ones around here were planted on purpose, so some garden centre variety I guess. Man the shoots look nice on some of them though. I'll post a pic once I've cut some.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on July 13, 2014, 12:15:50 pm
Crogacht.
The best way to learn about recognizing the right flax is talking with Maori weavers. here are two very different kinds i saw Maori weavers using there in Aotearoa.
also they can teach you how to strip the fiber easily from muka Korani flax.
I can try.
split a long green flax leaves till they're about a half inch wide. in the very center of the leaf score across the leaf (be careful NOT to cut through the fibers.)
take a clam shell and with leaf held against the sharp edge and thumb (start at the crease) and pull the shell down with careful pressure.
it will take a few attempts, but the fiber will be laying there bright and white. Then do the same from the other direction at the crease.
you will have long fibers from which to twist a string.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: docmann on July 19, 2014, 08:36:18 am
Growing some Red Osier here on the Great Plains of Western Oklahoma. Started out beautifully with the fire red shoots emerging like text book. Recent drought has sure backed them up over the last two years though. Rains this past month is helping, but I'm thinking I'm still a year out on harvesting any real quantities. I'm suspecting better luck in northern regions. Open to any suggestions on growing this. In the meantime, I suspect I'll continue ordering in my favorite shaft material, Sitka spruce.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on July 19, 2014, 03:19:16 pm
yeah, i've planted some red osier too, but was able to plant it along our spring flow...its growing full and bushy and just started flowering. It does seem to like damp soil
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Pat B on August 01, 2014, 09:44:28 pm
You should be able to harvest 2nd year growth each year without affecting the plant much. After the 2nd year the stems begin to turn a darker reddish gray and all gray after that. To keep nice reddish stems for landscape value just harvest the 2nd year growth each year.
Title: Re: who grows their own shoot shafts?
Post by: Springbuck on November 04, 2014, 10:46:15 am
I've got some Texas kidneywood.

Kidneywood?  Wow, that is new to me!  They sure got everything, don't they?


My neighbors do it for me.  They have a hundred plum trees, it seems, and they seem to think the only way to trim any tee is top lop off the branches blunt, what people call "topping".  I know that some coppice on purpose, but these are just old fruit trees, and they cut just cut em all off a couple feet from the main bole.

Anyway, more plum shoots than a guy could cut.  The only problem is really inconsistent taper.  Some are 5/16 peeled on one end, and 3/8 on the other, and some are 5/16 and 11/32 on the other.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: JackCrafty on November 04, 2014, 11:42:57 pm
The difference between 3/8 and 11/32 is only 1/32 of an inch.  That's really good for natural shoots.

What can make all the shoots the same diameter, you might ask?  Belt sander.   ;)
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on November 05, 2014, 11:07:49 am
"What can make all the shoots the same diameter, you might ask?  Belt sander."

or a cabinet scraper...works just fine  :)
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Knoll on November 05, 2014, 03:49:00 pm
The Wife's been growing a hibiscus bush in a pot for few years.  In spring I take it outside for her and in fall bring it back inside.  Brought it inside a few days ago.  Noticed that there's some nice arrow-to-be branches on that thing!  Now gotta convince her that it needs a good bit of "pruning" . . . . .
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: richardzane on November 05, 2014, 07:58:30 pm
"Now gotta convince her that it needs a good bit of "pruning"
haha! :D
I'm noticing some beautiful slender straight "shafts" growing on  red osier I planted down by our spring...
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on April 10, 2016, 04:35:28 pm
I use wild rose. I have plenty of it in my yard and it grows straight most of the time.
I have to be careful to cut wide enough shoots so my nock end won't be too narrow.
I hand plane white pine stock. I rip out 7/17 x 7/16" x 32" stock.
More on my site.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/
Jawge
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: elwinbm on August 11, 2016, 01:42:47 pm
There is a bowyer in GA. Name Japp Kopperdarayr and he builds some great bnows
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: Onebowonder on August 11, 2016, 05:28:03 pm
The Wife's been growing a hibiscus bush in a pot for few years.  In spring I take it outside for her and in fall bring it back inside.  Brought it inside a few days ago.  Noticed that there's some nice arrow-to-be branches on that thing!  Now gotta convince her that it needs a good bit of "pruning" . . . . .

So, Mike, how did the convincing project work out for you?  Did ya get any 'Hibiscus shoot' shaft made up yet???

OneBow
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: majsnuff on January 08, 2017, 02:50:39 pm
Here in North Idaho, I harvest Ocean Spray, Nine Bark, Syringa, and occasionally some Mountain Maple. Recently pulled a shrub (Beauty Berry) from my wifes flower bed and noticed some mighty good looking shoots which I saved to try out. It resembles Syringa in bark and spine. If it works I will be trying to save that root bundle this spring. Those arrow sized shoots grew from pruning to almost 4' long in one summer.
Title: Re: Who Grows Their Own Shoot Shafts?
Post by: loon on January 08, 2017, 05:04:25 pm
There is a bowyer in GA. Name Japp Kopperdarayr and he builds some great bnows
He also sells yadake arrow bamboo, though the 7 I got were rather inconsistent. Still looked like good quality other than that.

I live in Southern California, landless city boy. Not sure where I could harvest shoots. Would love to harvest some oceanspray or hazel.