Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Arrowind on January 08, 2013, 11:43:08 pm
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So the other day my buddy at work came in to the office and was excited to tell me that during his time off he visited his parents and brought back his compound bow. He proceeded to tell me that he was planning on going to a range near his house and get back into shooting. He was obviously really excited. Then he asked me if I had any bows. (He knows I've been making bows). I told him Yeah dude I have like 20 bows.” Then he said “Yeah but do you have any…” He stopped and I could tell he was about to say “real” bows then instead said “you mean your home made bows?” “Yes.” I said. Then he said “but I mean do you have any bows?” I replied. “Yes, I have more than 20 bows.” He then said “yeah but do you mean the ones you made?” “Yep.”
Now he knows full well that when I have said I’ve been making “bows” that I have not been talking about “hair bows” or some such thing. He was also not being disrespectful. He was using the word “homemade” as if that meant low quality or a poor imitation of the “real” thing. He was obviously trying to be polite but it became clear to me that there is a real lack of understanding of what a “homemade” bow can really be. It was actually pretty funny and I wasn’t offended because he genuinely doesn’t understand.
Guess I need to show him.
Have any of you had any similar experiences? It would be fun to hear them.
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yep
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I see that sort of attitude down at the range a fair bit. Like you said, most of those guys aren't really trying to be rude, they just don't really know exactly what they're talking about.
Though I have to say, the other day I experienced a refreshingly different opinion from your seemingly stereotypical compound bow hunter. He started setting up to shoot and some little kid next to him said, "wow! cool bow!" The compound shooter said, "yeah, this things not really a bow, it's pretty much just a gun." I laughed and clapped him on the back and told him that I was glad that he was willing to admit that.
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Get some pics together of all the guys on the hunting part and show him just how effective they really are! at first a bunch of people i have encountered have said "but you cant hunt with it, because it wouldn't have enough power right?" I proceeded to discredit this misconception in their mind and make solid the fact that making bows is just as effective if not more so than buying a bow and killing a deer. I was in my local lumber store buying white oak and hickory boards and explained to them that i must get them that day because of their near perfect grain because when you make a bow that's one of the requirements to make sure that it will last. If it were me i would show him the kills of all the people on the hunting forum because of how bold it is, its clear to me that he thinks they are inferior and that you cant get any better than a compound. However, if you think about it, compound often will shoot right through the deer and such, also they try taking much longer shots and miss. I know a guy who bow hunts but has never gotten anything with a bow of either compound or traditional! so basically i think that if you practice with a trad bow you stand a better chance than anybody with a compound, you become more disciplined that a compound hunter, take for instance a guy who buys a machine gun, but doesn't really learn to shoot it well, while he may do some damage, by that same token a well trained military soldier can take a pistol(provided we assume hes been practicing) and kill with almost a 9-9.5/10 accuracy. Its not the bow that will get the deer its the person behind the bow ;) GL and hope you can help your friend see sense!
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Put sand in his release, shoot and laugh ;)
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I entered a local archery competition with one of my 53 inch recurves once, and was scoffed at by the wheelie shooters there. they inquired as to whether or not i actually intended to compete with my "toy" or if i had another bow in the bag. all i did was smile while they examined my equipment, including my hand fletched, sinew bound arrows. they commented on how short the bow was, how they didnt think it would even make it the 25 yards to the target, that kind of thing. i had to laugh when one of them asked me why the bow was so weak, when it wasnt even strung. he was pulling at the string, which had been set opposite of brace on the nocks to keep it with the bow. so when the shooting started, me and the one other primitive shooter just chuckled while the wheelie bow guys took forever and a day on their shots, only to miss. then eventually my turn came, and i put all my arrows in the target in less time than most of them spent on one or two arrows. i outshot a majority of the wheelie guys, and watched their jaws drop when my "toy" (which draws 51 pounds -NOT a toy) outshot their matthews and hoyts with their sights and releases and scopes (one guy even had a laser dot attached to his bow) then spent another 45 minutes explaining how i did in fact make all of the equipment i was using and that it was in fact possible to take any game on the planet with a wooden bow (i guess they dont realize that for thousands of years people could and did take all sorts of game with wooden bows and atlatls, NOT the matthews Monster) just trikes me as odd that all these "archers" dont know the first thing about archery. when you have to pull a trigger, is it really archery?
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I passed a compounder on a trail whilst elk hunting. We had a nice chat but he did giggle at my recurve. The next day I shot an arrow diagonally through an elk at 8 yds.. The next year, in the same spot, I shot through another elk at 25 yds. 4 hrs. into the hunt. I had that elk in the cooler and was back at camp hunting deer when, believe it or not, I bumped into that guy again. He had already heard from another hunter who was camped there that, "that guy with the recurve shot another elk today". The stunned look on his face was priceless and, of course, I played it all down like it was an everyday thing for me.
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Ok so this does not relate to bows, it is another fish story. BUt thought I would post here just to make a point how Ignorant some People are.
Years ago I was fishing at a local hot spot on a wharf. I was walking down the wharf as 2 younger guys were heading my way. They looked at my Rod and could see that it was a Big-Box store fishing rod. They both sneered and giigled under their breath.
About 1/2 hour later I caught a fish, nice one 10 pounds. The sad part was they missed the catch, oh well. What goes around comes around I say. >:D
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Don't be haters be educators ;)
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Oh yea,one of my huntin partners told me my bows were to big to use in a tree stand, ::) I havent killed one yet but neither has his 800$ whatever it is! AND none of the guys will let me shoot arrows out of my "toy" bow at them! ;)
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Oh yea,one of my huntin partners told me my bows were to big to use in a tree stand, ::) I havent killed one yet but neither has his 800$ whatever it is! AND none of the guys will let me shoot arrows out of my "toy" bow at them! ;)
Kind of strange as well because a lot of Compound Bow hunters are dead against anything under 65# for hunting, and they think that the animal will Suffer needlessly at the avails of A Primitive type bow because of its inacuracy and low weight.
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sometimes the deer will suffer anyway weather its a compound or not, also, suffering has to happen, if we were to free everything from all suffering that would mean no hunting, what they really mean is they think that its highly unlikely that you will EVER get anything with a dinky little bow like yours.... not true at all... I even saw a vid of a guy that killed a deer with his homemade bow and arrows 2 in one morning from a treestand! and they were upwards of 60-80 ft out.
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While we're talking about this... I'm wondering what concrete objections some of you might have against compound bows/shooters/hunters. I don't mean why YOU don't want to use them but why you think others shouldn't use them. What is it about them that we find so much of a threat? I know some of you will say that you have no problem, if that's how they want to enjoy archery the more power to them. But clearly there are those among us that feel compelled to turn up our noses at them or put them down as rude, unsportsmanlike, cheating, lazy, etc. I guess what I'm getting at is if there is something tangible that they are doing to cramp our style other than hurting our feelings occasionally, what is it? I ask because I too am guilty of the occasional smarmy comment about compound shooter/hunters and I've been called on it. I wasn't able to produce very many convincing arguments that they were really hurting anything except my pride. So, thoughts?
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I have multiple thoughts on it ::) this is a topic that always gets me fired up the wheelies don't like the primitives the primitive don't like the trads if for some reason it seems everybody don't like the crossbows >:( I for 1 love archery :-* I try not speak of anything other than primitive wooden bows because that is what this site is dedicated to I do however like listening to each side state their case
I could go on a raving tangent for 2 pages But it would fall on deaf ears I own and shoot everything each having its own area of enjoyment, and drawbacks butto imho they are all considered archery the progression from the wooden bowl to the fiberglass to the wheelie Bowes there has always been haters on both sides........ why? ???
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i wouldn't despise them in any way, i would just point out that when bow hunting wasn't commercialized there was less restrictive laws about bow hunting, because the deer weren't just for sport, i believe a large group of compound or modern bow hunters do it for sport or just for the meat, that's such a waste if they don't use the tendons, bones, hide, hooves, ect ect ect. i really think that they become more impatient and don't care as much for what the wildlife deserves as respect. I also believe it makes them essentially gun hunters... because they are able to have "accurate" shot placement. The origins of traditional hunting have been around for thousands of years, and in fact traditional archery was one of the most effective weapons of its time! and on top of all that how cool is it to hunt with something that could have been used thousands of years ago. if you ever have to live in the wild for whatever reason, bowyery is an excellent skill! could save your life, just sayin! plus all young boys are ingrained with a desire to make and shoot a bow lol. i remember my many attempts at a powerful bow that i might kill something with. i was really into it then, and i still am.
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At the range that I hang out at the compound shooters generally show me respect. Some of them are even interested in my bows. I encounter a jerk every now and then, but jerks exist in every human endeavour.
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l just think that compound bows are no longer real bows in a sense. you can look at all the bows in history and they are all kinda similar untill you get to modern compounds. plus they take very little skill to use, less skill to hunt with, and they have led to a "newest is best" mind set. but mainly like you said it hurts our feeling when they look down on us. but what can I say I have been caught pulling out the wheeli twice a year ::) ( plus what is the point of shooting a bowrifle if not just for a longer season and less noise)
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I agree with some aspects of that However I shot numerous deer with my wheelie bow and not much is gone to waste... the fact is I'm very precise with a wheelie bow and not so much with a primitive bow... so out of respect to the animal I choose to use that 1 however I don't think it can't be done I've seen Ranger b's videos and I can't hold a candle to him with nothing! I'm not saying 1 is right and 1 is wrong but judgement is being placed on whole groups for what reason?
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You should have reversed the question on him
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Nothing against those guys with modern bows. I just don't want to be in line behind them at a 3-D shoot!!
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If you cant shoot a glass/wood bow accurately enough to hunt with you havent dedicated yourself or your time to it....yet.
And yes, I listen to BS like that all the time at work. I just chuckle and show them pics of harvested animals on my phone from me and others in our sport.
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Just finished a rawhide backed Cherry bow for my older brother after he asked me if I thought you could take a moose with one.(his isn't heavy enough for Moose ,but you have to start somewhere) .Funny thing is I'm the youngest of 4 brothers and I bought my first Wheelie bow when I was 15 in a place and time where bowhunting didn't really exist,let alone traditional. Northern Ontario is a gun hunting culture , and even now a bowhunter gets raised eyebrows. It's catching on more now because it gives you a longer season. It wasn't long after I bought my bow ,that my oldest brother bought one,............... then second oldest.......... then the next bought a cross bow. Switched over to trad years ago because I hunt from the ground and found that you can't shoot a deer at 5yds with a wheelie. They don't seem to want to wait for you to draw ,aim and shoot.LOL. No prob with wheelies ,cross bows, guns, I've used them all. But I rather enjoy telling a wheelie guy That I spent less on my entire setup ,than he did on three arrows and then ask if he wanted to shoot some aerial targets or go stump shooting.Oh sorry ,that's not in your skill set. Hey by the way, where do you carry your extra string if you happen to nick it with a broad head? Wow that bow weighs a ton, is that what the wheels are for?
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I use to hear that stuff a lot,not so much anymore. :)I do get ask now and then
" can you really hunt with that" or you shoot with just your fingers,I just smile and say well they did for thousands of years so I guess so. ;) :) to be honest most seem impressed when they find out you hunt with it and actually kill stuff or can hit a target with it. :)
Pappy
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yep one of my buddies thought the same thing but when i got pass through on a cow elk at 45 yards he changed his mind
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A couple of anecdotes to add to this very entertaining post...
Earlier this season my buddy drove his 4 wheeler up on his trailer, closed the gate and headed home after an evening hunt. Halfway home he remembered he had left his bow and case on the back of the quad. Long story short, the whole shebanged was lost to the gods of the 4 lane. He was a very diligent searcher for a couple days and finally concluded that be was gonna have to buy new. So he called me one night and said he was headed to the local sports store and I said how much will it cost to replace it. He said between $1500 and $2000.
A short time later he called back and said someone in the area was trying to get hold of him about his bow. It seems an unknown person had picked it up, thrown it in the back of their truck drove off with it and then it fell out of their truck also!! Another person found it and started looking for the owner. Moral of he story: use what's at hand, make an extra!
This same buddy and I were driving down the road the other day and it came out that he still hasn't killed a deer yet with his bow. I could tell he was having trouble admitting the fact so I wasn't trying to rub it in. So I nonchalantly mentioned, "hey did I tell you I got a deer and a turkey this year with stick and stone?" He says, " I know, I know!" ( I wouldn't do this, except he and I are like brothers)
Moral of this story: the bow don't make meat, the hunter does!
I'm not a hater. I started with wheels and some day I might go back. I am pleased with what Ive accomplished with stick and stone and enjoy challenging myself with whatever I choose. It helps me to remember that this is a personal pursuit. It is a GREAT challenge to build your own equipment and hunt with it. Not everyone can do that, but I choose to.
Scott
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the guys that make the most noise," you cant hunt with that, it's just a toy" and so on, there the same ones that picked on the fat kid in school or the one with thick glasses, there's a certain amount of a-holes everywhere, most of the time they are to busy looking at it and how light it is and wanting to shoot mine, when I belonged to a archery club I always brought a bow that I had to loan out and let guys try it out, it's a blast 'cause most of them cant even come close without their sights, given several away just like that when they find out how fun they are to shoot, Bub
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I know how you feel. Here's a funny story.
Me and my dad were at a primitive knapp'in and my dad found a great deal on a fiberglass longbow that he snatched up immediately and carried around with him for the rest of the day. We wandered over to a guy who was making wooden bows and started talking to him and sharing stories when a random guy walked up to my dad and asked him if he was holding a "real" bow and where he found it. Keep in mind the whole time we were standing in front off 1/2 dozen finally crafted Osage bows.
I told him he was looking at about 1/2 dozen real bows, and he just looked dubious and scoffed at them. I was a little annoyed at this point and told him that wooden bows have been taking game for 10,000 years compared to fiberglass and compound bows that have been around less than a century. That shut him up real quick and me and my dad shared a good laugh.
Jon
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yeah Jon, some people are just uneducated andand can learn and some just cant be educated,Bub
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Wow. Sounds like I touched a nerve.
It's very interesting to read everyone's comments. Thanks for sharing! Us lesser "Homemade bow" people have to stick together.
Don't get me wrong he was not trying to look down on me.... (just my bows) :laugh: by any means. He was actually trying to be nice.
He genuinely just doesn't understand. In fact I'm positive that it's been our conversations over the last few years that has given him the motivation to get back into archery which I think is really cool.
I had no intention of drawing some kind of battle line or something between two camps. Not at all. I just thought it would be fun to share and was interested in hearing other peoples examples of encountering ignorance.
Now I have seen some people obviously looking down on me and my equipment at the range. In fact one day my bro and I were out shooting our "homemade bows" and had our stuff all set up on a table at the 30 yard target and were preparing to shoot. While we were stringing our bows two guys with their compound bows came walking right up and started shooting right there where we were set up. They acted like they owned the place and we had no business being there and our stuff was merely an annoyance. These guys were just jerks plain and simple. Having "compound" bows didn't make them jerks they would have been jerks with golf clubs, bowling balls, squirt guns, or whatever they were using.
I have also had some people with compound bows take quite a bit of time asking me questions about how I made my bows and were obviously impressed showing quite a bit of interest etc. ...I'm sure you guys have had that happen as well. Fun stuff!
I have a friend who hunts with a compound bow and we have had several conversations about archery and my adventures in bow making. He will go so far as to smile and call himself a cheater. I say "no you aren't dude you just do things differently". He smiles and says "no, I'm cheating." He has a geat deal of admiration for traditional archery. I think he goes with modern equipment because he doesn't get to get out and hunt as much as he would like and wants to give himself as much opportunity to be successful as possible. I totaly respect that. He's a cool guy.
Cool people will be cool no matter what they are using too.
I wish I had a awesome hunting story of my own and hopefully I'll change that this year. For now I need to improve my accuracy so I can feel good about actually killing something I'm trying to hit rather than injuring it and feeling horrible.
I'll have to go to the range with my friend from work...or even make him a bow. I'm sure once he shoots one a light will go off in his mind.
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When talking about selfbows I prefer to say "handmade" in place of "homemade". Homemade sounds inferior. Handmade speaks of quality workmanship. Just a thought.
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People often confuse Primitive Archery with crude or ill-made equipment. Maybe a better descriptive would be "pre-industrial"?
I shot a 3D course where there were 40 targets shot, starting out with the closest at 25 yds! I'd only practiced out to 20 yds max, most shots at 10-15. I was shooting my first bow, a 43# ash flatbow that wasn't particularly well designed and shot rather like a slug. I was throwing 600 grain ash arrows at about 120 fps. Needless to say, I was shooting "rainbow" arcs at all targets. There were 3 of us shooting stickbows against 200 and some odd wheelie shooters. I ended up in the top 50% and was the worst of the three stickshooters.
It's not the wheels on the wheel bows that offend me. But there is often an attitude that trends towards BUYING GEAR rather than building skills. Granted, there are some folks in here that are constantly throwing perfectly good bows in the corner so that they can build the "flavor of the month" design, too. But none of them delude themselves into thinking that they are going to kill a deer just because they showed up in the woods with a new bow.
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When talking about selfbows I prefer to say "handmade" in place of "homemade". Homemade sounds inferior. Handmade speaks of quality workmanship. Just a thought.
Yeah. I agree. I'm just quoting my buddy to emphasize the point. He clearly thinks "Homemade" sounds inferior too. Next time I'll correct him and see how he reacts.
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JW_Halverson - Cool story! I hear you. I've been guilty of throwing perfectly good bows in the corner to build another... that's for sure. Sometimes I can barely finish one before I start 2 or 3 more. But then I think most people here understand that. Some only get shot in then put on the rack. It's the building I like most I think. Lately I've been paying more attention to the archer in me though.
yeah I think there is certainly a notion with some wheel bow guys that if you buy the most expensive newest bow then you will shoot better. Just like new shoes make you run faster...wait don't they?
I started shooting again just over two years now but still don't feel good enough to take on the responsibility of hunting. Granted I haven't been practicing my shooting real consistently either not until more recently.
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Our deer season here in South Carolina starts on August 15th. Rifle season from the git go in the lower half of the state. Upper
half starts in middle of September with archery and front loaders kick off October 1st. By October 11 the whole state is use'em
if you got 'em. Plainly put, the idea of using a "primitive weapon" to extend your season just ain't valid. This season I hunted
with 3 of my "handmade" hickory bows, a powerhouse short bow from halfeye, a Samick Sage glass bow, a .308 Ruger rifle , a 12 ga. slug gun ,
and a .44 mag SuperBlackhawk. And did good.
My experience has been that whenever someone learns that I build bows they want one. No advantage to owning one but they want it. I ain't
real good at the process but one by one they will all eventually get something to shoot.
There is magic in letting loose...we need that. We all need that.
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arrowind, you say that he's being nice, but the way that you say he said it sounds condescending , I'm probably wrong but that's how I would take it, Bub
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arrowind, you say that he's being nice, but the way that you say he said it sounds condescending , I'm probably wrong but that's how I would take it, Bub
Hey bubby,
Yeah, I would think that too if I didn't know him very well. He needs an education on primitive archery.
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Something I always ask wheelie bow shooters, "Do people say people can't take their eyes off your bow? Do they stand around asking questions about it? Or do you ever find yourself running your eyes over your limbs with fond memories of just how they came to be?"
Face it, folks. We're just too cool for most people.
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Arrowind... Some of my best hunting stories don't and with a kill So don't focus on the kill part And you will find that The jerks with the wheelie Bows May come around And be customers And your best buddies Darn shame they had to snuff you Have fun with your passion and your craft All the others can jump in a lake ;)
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Folks are just folks ,you need to love them all !!
You may be the one that needs some love next !
I really don't care what they hunt with just want them to enjoy hunting !!
We are all at different stages and have different back grounds !
I don't have a hard time using most any equipment and will gladly share with others anything I know!
Please be loving educators !
Have fun !!
Guy