Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Christian Soldier on January 08, 2013, 06:47:35 pm
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Unfortantely, when I first started bow making I started with short draw short bows and used a floating anchor. I could still get the plate size group at 10 yards, but I knew I could do better.
Now I have several longer bows, amoung them a 50lb 63" hickory selfbow that is my current target bow. I know it can go to my full 27" draw, and when I am not shooting at something and just drawing I have no problem getting a good anchor (not over-bowed or anything). However, once I get the arrow pointing at the target with the intent to shoot, I usually end up snap shooting and a shorter draw. When I do get to full draw, my shots are dead on otherwise.
Do yall have any advice for implanting that full draw muscle memory?
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I had the same problem two years ago and couldn't shoot for crap. 2 years and 1000's of arrows later I am shooting 4-6" groups at 25 yards. To fix my snap shooting problem I swallowed my ego and moved to five yards from my target, which at the time was 3 hay bales stacked on top of each other. I drew, held for 2 seconds counted aloud then released. I shot for 2 months this way and did not let myself back up until I could consistently hold at anchor for however long I wanted. Then step by step staying at each new distance for a few days and shooting hundreds of arrows at each one, I moved back to 20 yards. 4 months after I started my snap shooting was cured and I set to work increasing my accuracy. My groups shrunk from 4 feet to 4". I literally have shot probably 50,000 arrows in 2 years.
Jon
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Come to full draw, hold for a second then let down. Do this over and over again concentrating on your form, hitting your anchor and achieving full draw.
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If you combine what the kid said with what the old guy said you can't go wrong.
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Which one am I Lane? ::)
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If you keep telling yourself, "The shot begins when I hit full draw", you may beat it. I had/have the same short draw problem because Im 100% instinctive and my eyes and subconsious is all tuned in well before Im full drawn, as a result the draw hand lets go of the string 1-3" short. Stupid subconcouis anyway.....
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Thanks guys, I'll see if I can get out and start practicing some today.
I'll try what Pat said now (I can do it inside :) ) and then I'll get out in the field later and get some target time.
I imagine it'll probably take awhile but I shoot almost everyday anyway, might as well do it right. :)
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When you start shooting outside stand close(10 yds or less) to your target, get a good sight picture, close your eyes, come to full draw, hold for a second and release. Don't worry about hitting the bulls eye. Just concentrate on your form and your draw to full draw then your release. Do this over and over again until coming to full draw is second nature to you. Once you feel comfortable with your draw stay close to the target but concentrate on each shot with your eyes open. Once you are hitting where you want consistantly move out to 15yds, then 20yds, etc.
I haven't shot much over the last year but when I was shooting a lot I started out shooting 50 to 100 arrows a day. After I was confident my form was set and my shooting consistane I realized I didn't need to shoot that much and it actually made my shooting worse because it would tire me out. When I shoot now I shoot a dozen or so arrows, making sure that each one goes where I'm looking. When I get near hunting season I will shoot one arrow a day, either in the early morning or late afternoon, simulating hunting times. Even after not shooting much lately I can usually go out and shoot almost any bow and my first couple of shots are right on. Because my archery muscles are out of shape I tire easily and my shooting shows it.
Also, shoot only one arrow. Shoot it, retrieve it and shoot again. This keeps a clear target picture without the clutter of other arrows. It also helps you concentrate on each shot because of the pause between the shots clears out your mental picture so you can concentrate on your next shot.
When I'm shooting I don't want to think about the bow or arrow but only on the place the arrow WILL go. I want my conscience mind to not even consider the bow and arrow so my body goes through the moves without consience thought and let my subconsience guide the arrow. This takes lots of positive practice. If you find yourself getting sloppy or tired or just sloppy shooting, put the bow down and come back when your mind is clear. Don't shoot to calm your nerves either. You want a clear mind for shooting. Bad habits are easy to come by but very difficult to loose!
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When you start shooting outside stand close(10 yds or less) to your target, get a good sight picture, close your eyes, come to full draw, hold for a second and release. Don't worry about hitting the bulls eye. Just concentrate on your form and your draw to full draw then your release. Do this over and over again until coming to full draw is second nature to you. Once you feel comfortable with your draw stay close to the target but concentrate on each shot with your eyes open. Once you are hitting where you want consistantly move out to 15yds, then 20yds, etc.
I haven't shot much over the last year but when I was shooting a lot I started out shooting 50 to 100 arrows a day. After I was confident my form was set and my shooting consistane I realized I didn't need to shoot that much and it actually made my shooting worse because it would tire me out. When I shoot now I shoot a dozen or so arrows, making sure that each one goes where I'm looking. When I get near hunting season I will shoot one arrow a day, either in the early morning or late afternoon, simulating hunting times. Even after not shooting much lately I can usually go out and shoot almost any bow and my first couple of shots are right on. Because my archery muscles are out of shape I tire easily and my shooting shows it.
Also, shoot only one arrow. Shoot it, retrieve it and shoot again. This keeps a clear target picture without the clutter of other arrows. It also helps you concentrate on each shot because of the pause between the shots clears out your mental picture so you can concentrate on your next shot.
When I'm shooting I don't want to think about the bow or arrow but only on the place the arrow WILL go. I want my conscience mind to not even consider the bow and arrow so my body goes through the moves without consience thought and let my subconsience guide the arrow. This takes lots of positive practice. If you find yourself getting sloppy or tired or just sloppy shooting, put the bow down and come back when your mind is clear. Don't shoot to calm your nerves either. You want a clear mind for shooting. Bad habits are easy to come by but very difficult to loose!
+1 Pat said a lot of good stuff in his post... And Lane... HAHAHA ;D
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Well Pat, you got me by a couple of years so that makes you...uh..wise. Me, I'm just old. Now
Jon on the other hand ain't been around too long but the young man has serious savvy and
builds one hell of a bow.
CS about 3 years ago I started searching for MY best technique and form. About 2 years ago
I began using that form ( including a 2 second hold ) shooting at a large target from 3 yards.
It worked as now, just 2 years later I am fairly consistent with a medium sized target at 5 yards.
OK, maybe it's a little better than that but the point is it takes a lot of shooting, not just flinging
arrows, to get good. If you find you are just not mentally engaged either stop for the day or
move the target out to 70 yds. The brain seems to enjoy the variety and bad form is amplified at distance.
And it's fun which is the real goal anyway.
To shoot well instinctively you have to fully concentrate without
thinking.
G.Fred Asbell has a couple of good books on the subject and they are worth your time.
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johnston this is just my opinion so please don't take it wrong,I think a lot of GFred
and for all he has done for archery but it took me years [still at it] to break the bad habits that the swing draw method helped do for me and many others. I bought his bows and books when I started shooting traditional 30+ years ago and shot that way for at least 10 years.Spent the last 20 years trying to get over it. ;) :) It is a short draw problem looking to happen. jmo. Pat's advice seems to work for me and over the last few years have gotton to where I can hit full draw
before loosing the string most of the time. The swing draw is all about timing with your swing and if the timing is on you can hit a nat in the behind but if it is off you can't hit the wall inside a building plus when hunting unless you are shooting at something running or flying the swing draw has way to much movement for me. Not sure what the problem is but I think that method as you swing you are looking at what you want to hit,you mind tells you you are pointed in the right spot and you turn loose before you hit an anchor. I know I will catch a lot of flak over this but after years of shooting and watching others that use his method I haven't seen very many consistend shooters. I know their are some I just ant seem them and most draw about 22 to 24 inches. ;) :) :) Get out the popcorn !!!!!!!
Pappy
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Pappys got it. My eyes and brain would be screaming shoot, shoot, an my sub consicous mind would be saying no were not to full draw yet, an when i let loose it was quite a mess. I finally got so now i don't focus on what i want to hit until I reach full draw an then focus on target. This has helped me alot . Like Pat said, bad habits come real easy an leave real hard. Quess I better get some popcorn with Pappy. ;D ;D Later Bob
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I tried the audible counting of "1,2" and then I'd release just after the '2' left my lips.
I wasn't really 'focusing' on the accuracy so it was about normal, but I got full draw just about everytime. Which means I have consistent velocity and form so I have the potential to improve substanciallly.
I'll do that every time I go out now till my form is set. :)
If you or anyone else has any additional advice, I'm always willing to listen. :)
Thanks!
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Don't worry about accuracy for now. Get your form down and your full draw right first. Give yourself a few days of these exercises and you should notice improvement.
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Aw gee Pappy Mark Baggett , you got me. I don't actually use the swing draw but since I saw that pic of
you and G. Fred all hugged up I figured I would be all PC and maybe not get scolded.
I raise a canted bow from whatever position my body assumes relative to the target. If my bow arm can
be fully extended, it is. My draw comes to completion when my thumb knuckle touches my cheek at the
jaw joint and if my mind is empty I let loose.
I may look down the arrow after I raise the bow but I never address the shot with tension on the string.
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Everybody seems to need different remedies for target panic. I had it bad for a long time. I tried the hold on target and let down over and over and that helped to control it some. What finally worked for me was this,
I record myself on my cell phone. I press record, wait a few seconds, say "draw." wait several seconds and say, "Shoot."
I recorded four or five of these with different length intervals between the draw and shoot.
Then I press play and the few seconds before my phone says draw allows me to get set. Then I just let my phone tell me when to release. I simply kepp holding and staring at the middle of the target untill my phone tells me to shoot. I record several different length full draw intervals so my brain cannot begin to anticipate when the shoot command is going to come.
Shoot like this for a week straight before trying to shoot without it. It helps your brain disassociate being aiming with releasing. It tells your brain that just because i'm at full draw doen't mean I will release at any time.
I now shoot like this at least 50% of the time and it really keeps my target panic in check. I have tried alot of different methods and this is what continues to work for me.
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No scolding johnston,I like G Fred a lot and have known him a long while,just don't like his style of shooting. It works for some and not for others. Short draw is very easy to get and very hard to break so if you do like Pat said and start off right you will be way better off.For us old codgers it is a constance battle.At least for me. :) Folks say its all mental,so I guess I am mentally weak. ;) ;D ;D
Pappy
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Pappy I guess my whole point is that a "swing draw, or becoming the arrow " or what ever is a place to
glean an impression of what we try to do.To be honest in TBB four ( or 1,2or 3) the chapter by Jim Hamm
with his daughter-in-law coaching gave me more insight than anything I have read.
I know so little but shoot so much that I am now better than I ever thought I would ever be. That ain't great
mind you but I am happy with the progress.
We are suppose to be having fun else why do it. And you feel free to scold me anytime. Pat does.
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for me thats never been a problem. i always go to the corner of my mouth, just take you TIME, key is time, because if you cant take you time and on each shot slowly draw and hold, then you will have a very hard time breaking this habit. I just take my time sometimes, although i snap them at full draw most of the time, with a good amount of success. tell yourself to draw slowly, over and over again, and hold at your anchor.
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Pappy I guess my whole point is that a "swing draw, or becoming the arrow " or what ever is a place to
glean an impression of what we try to do.To be honest in TBB four ( or 1,2or 3) the chapter by Jim Hamm
with his daughter-in-law coaching gave me more insight than anything I have read.
I know so little but shoot so much that I am now better than I ever thought I would ever be. That ain't great
mind you but I am happy with the progress.
We are suppose to be having fun else why do it. And you feel free to scold me anytime. Pat does.
I think you are on to something when you talk about how much you are shooting. For me, accuracy didn't come over night. I think it takes lots of shooting, no matter what your method. When the shot got to be muscle memory and I was finally able to just worry about hitting where I was looking - I finally got some confidence. Lots of well thought out practice was the key for me. That and developing a consistent, repeatable anchor point has helped my shooting. I don't hold at full draw for very long at all - but I do make sure that I achieve it. When it hits the anchor spot on my face I feel it and release. I cant the bow a little and draw the string with the arrow already pointed where I want to hit. I am looking at the tiny little middle of where I want to hit before I draw. Aim small, miss small. I shoot just about every day, and usually just a couple dozen shots. Not arrow flinging, but well thought out, best practice. You will shoot under pressure exactly like you practice. If you only know how to shoot with proper attitude and concentration, then you are less likely to miss when it's time to make your shot count. For me, it is all about hunting. I am training for the moment to make a clean kill and I evaluate every shot that hits the round bale with "that was a kill" or "that was a miss". Doggone it, I love shooting a bow! Sorry to ramble on.
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GET CLOSER FOR NOW, LIGHTEN UP YOUR BOW POUNDAGE. DO WHAT COMES NATURAL. HOLD AT FULL DRAW A SECOND. FORGET ABOUT THE PRESSURE OTHERS ARE PUTTING ON YOU.
START TO ENJOYING SHOOTING AND NOT THINK OF IT AS A CHORE.
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I guess more folks have this affliction than I thought. I have not brought this up before but it hit me bad this year. I started shooting barebow when I was 6 years old and now I'm 55. I had achieved a very accurate,self learned method of shooting,that has allowed a successful hunting "career" . I practiced shooting acorns out to 15-20 yards and when I did miss,it was'nt by much. The problem has actually been coming on the last few years,but ,in a hunting situation,my concentration would override any early release. Not so this year. It has gotten so bad that ,after hitting full draw,my bow arm freezes.When I try to move my arm to point,my release goes off,before I can get to target.There are times I can move the bow arm,but the sub-concious will not let me get dead on target. It is un-controllable. I can tell myself out loud to hold at anchor while aiming,but release anyway. I have done some studying on "Target Panic"cures,have done the bare bale shooting,with eyes closed, attempted the draw,anchor ,aim,then hold for a few seconds before letting down, but this will only work when I'm a few feet from target. This is very frustrating,and worrisome ,because it feels as if something in my brain has short circuited .I have always been a very confident archer,and want that confidence back again. If any of you has a similar problem,and have made any progress,please share your methods with us. Thanks,and God Bless
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2 words
Back tension
Lock your shoulder blades.
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Another old guy chiding in here. I have fought target panic for years and I know there is a cure, however after many attempts, lots of arrows, I find the best remedy is to concentrate on form, the target, and the hold ( follow-through). That way I forget about the release and it just happens - sometimes the arrow takes longer to acquire the target and I am able to wait until it is there - other times as mentioned by others the target is acquired and everything looks good right from the start, however, now my subconscious tells me to follow-through which means I have to get to fulldraw. I don't actually realize if there was an anchor or not. I try not to move anything once the arrow releases.