Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Zion on December 31, 2012, 03:20:34 am
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So the other day i went skiing up this big mountain (which was futile because there was other 3 feet of snow!) I found some really nice pieces of VM growing all around this creek tho, and there were more for future hauls. I got 7 tho which is fine for me. I also ardy started on one of the smaller ones.
My experience with VM is really limited to 1 or 2 bows. But i'm really wondering how to get a ton of reflex into them. I know that you have to use reaction wood, but can you add even more by heating it to dry it out faster? How long does VM take to season? I noticed with my little test subjects that it seems to be real good after like 7-8 months.
I would really like to get a couple nice bows outa this stuff. Any projects you guys have going would be awesome to see since i'm new to this wood!
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Dog looks at them sadly thinking "too big to retrieve..." :) :) :)
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LOL he's just waiting for them to turn into bows so he can chew on them :o
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I have not seen all the vine maple in the world but that doesn't look like the stuff I usually see.....? If it is, then shame on me. But it looks too straight, rough bark, dark wood, not green.
If it is vm then I don't really have any advice for reflexing other than what you already know and I'm looking forward to the 70# bow I know your going to make from it.....!
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Yeah steve i know what you mean about the look of it :o I did do a search tho and i saw John Strunk debarking a stave and it looks just like some of these. Maybe it's just the drier climate compared to the coast that gets the coarser greyer bark.
a 70# bow with some reflex is gonna be cool if i can make one! Gonna be hard to wait for these to dry properly lol!
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That's not Vinemaple.
This is Vinemaple, it looks the same no matter where it grows.
(http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh544/bryceott/3be4d441.jpg)
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Zion, you're out in Montana, right? If so than this is probably Douglas/Rocky Mountain maple (Acer glabrum). I've seen vine maple with grayer bark than what Bryce is showing (mostly where it had moss on it) but not that gray, and it definitely doesn't grow too far past the cascades. For what its worth, Douglas maple is supposed to be a good for bows as well, high up on my list of woods to try.
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Yes under heavy moss it's a pale brown.
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Wow i feel like an idiot :-[
Accipiter, i live in north central WA. But i think you're right about the douglas maple.
While i was at my friends house at the foothills of the cascades (elensburg area) i did see these green maples that grew like spaghetti. dangit i wish i had grabbed a few of those besides my yew!!
So is douglas the same thing as Mountain maple? I've heard mountain maple is a very good bow wood. I wish i had a pic for u guys of how it grows. Basically it grows like serviceberry in the sense that it is in these clumps of straight stalks, but there's a bit more space in the clumps compared to serviceberry. Does mountain maple also dry into massive reflex????
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No big deal bud. I like the new title :)
If I had more VM I'd send yah some.
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Thanks Bryce, i think this stuff is gonna work out anyway tho!
I roughed the smallest piece out about 4 days ago and already it's pretty dry. Starting to floor bend it, unfortunately i can't really take pics when i'm pushing on it but it's coming along. Love the springiness of this stuff. I'll definitely heat treat it when i go into rough tillering.
Heres some pics of the piece, i have hope it'll become a bow!
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I also split one of the bigger pieces (~3") and it split straight down the middle. I also somehow managed to get reflexed staves off of both sides.... :o
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That's not an idiot move, everyone struggles at times to identify trees. It might be serendipidous in that you thought it was VM so you cut it and now you'll end up with an even better wood and bow. I wouldn't worry about the reflex thing. When any stave is dry it is then that you decide if it is bow worthy. Have fun and keep us posted.
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I didn't know montain maple existed...? The maple on the Pacific coast is called Big Leaf maple. Most of it is not good for much it's softer has lots of sap wood, brown and white wood.
The stuff I buy is EAstern Maple, same as hard rock.......The stuff you got looks ok should work out hopefully..
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thanks guys. Bow 101 mountain maple is the same thing as doug maple i believe and is a little less common and smaller than some of the other maples, to my knowledge it grows up in big mountains (hence the name)
Steve quit using big words! >:D It took me 5 minutes to figure out how to say that one that starts with the S! ;D ;D Lol with how nice this wood is to work i'll definitely have fun!
I heated the blank by my wood stove just to get the moisture out faster and then put it on a form in minor reflex. In the morning i might try to get a string on it....
Here's one of my 48" test subjects from last spring's harvest. The bow broke because it had an obviously bad design and was way too short, but i wanted to see what the wood could do. The place it broke was right below the lumpy knot on the top limb. Before it broke i got to shoot it about 50 times tho, and it shot better than some of my bigger ones!
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Douglas maple has a extra lobe on the leaves, if my memory serves me right. From what I have seen it is not quite as snappy as vine maple...but it could have been my sample? :) Either makes a fine bow!
VMB
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See, Zion, muscles only go so far, you have to have brains too then you can understand big words 8)
Bow looks good. Keep going.
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Haha steve maybe in college i'll use words like that!
VMB i guess you would be the guy to know lol. In the spring i'll take a better look at the leaves.
I'll try to get a string on the bow tommorrow.
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Dude, you're string that stuff already!? :o didn't you just cut it?
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Weylin don't worry, what you see is the smallest piece which i am entirely using as experimentation. ::) If it takes a bunch of set by the time i get it basically tillered out i'll just heat treat it and clamp it. This may or may not turn out to be a nice bow, it might just be a lesson to working with this wood. I'll let the 'nice' pieces season for a while before i touch them.
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A friend of mine was elk hunting in western Wyoming in the mountains and came home to tell me there were maples growing at 6000 to 7000 feet.Five to eight inch diameter.Straight as a gun barrel.The leaves were a dark crimson red.He's going next fall to the same place.Is this some of that mountain maple?And is it just as dense as the hard maple here in Iowa.Just curious.
Looks good Zion.Thanks for sharing.
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Beadman - I'd say its most likely mountain maple. Definitely not vine maple out in Wyoming! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_glabrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_glabrum) Turns out theres a whole bunch of varieties of Acer glabrum, and from my limited observations the different strains grow a bit differently. Some grow very clustered with smaller stems (1-5") but I've seen a few in Oregon and Washington that had very large main trunks. Most likely they have different properties as bow wood too!
Zion - Nice title switch ;D Don't feel bad about that ID, they really are pretty similar, just make sure you don't mistake a hemlock for a yew! Also, how did you take the bark off those staves? Knife? I just cut some vine maple and am wondering how to take off winter bark without damaging the back.
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Accipiter it is easier than you would think! The bark is pretty thick so i first take my drawknife and carefully peel the bark off like you would shaving down a bow. Then only the cambium is left and i scrape most of that off. when it's dried a bit i take the patches of cambium off with my knife and lightly sand the back. I was surprised that the bark came off so easy during the winter, a lot of other trees really keep it on.
Beadman that's awesome! I guess it goes to show maple's a really tough tree. When i hike up that high i usually just see scraggly white pines and similar trees.
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K, i did some tiller work today. Just got it to where it's bending fairly evenly, the limb on the left needs to be a bit weaker. Not pulling it far yet. I then tied it into some reflex for the night.
Sorry for the crappy pics, my camera doesn't do so good at night lol.
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Nice title switch ;D Don't feel bad about that ID, they really are pretty similar, just make sure you don't mistake a hemlock for a yew!
Ha! Years ago I went out on my own into the cascades looking for yew. I had never seen one before so I wasn't positive about what to look for. The first place I got out and started walking around I thought I'd hit the jackpot. There were these HUGE yew trees everywhere. Pretty quickly I started to have my doubts. Of course, they were hemlock, but the leaves looked similar enough to fool me for a bit. I felt pretty silly.
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LMAO! The same thing happened to me except with fir trees. I was like 'dang, why does everyone say yew grows small and crooked?' After seeing a real yew tree, though, it becomes pretty obvious!
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I haven't been able to post for a while because my internet was down and other things, but i got the bow tillered out to where i liked it a few days ago.
Right now it's weighing 75#@25", which is right on target. With the future bows i'll probably be able to get s'more weight out of 'em but this;ll do fine for now. Its shooting great so i'm really happy how its turning out.
I heat treated it lightly over my stove 2 times, just lightly browned it.
It has about 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" of string follow, which is kinda hard to judge because of the little bump by the handle. Do you guys think this'll be fine? It's been drying about 1 1/2 weeks.
Sorry i don't have any FD pics but tommorrow i can take some.