Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: littlehunters19862011 on December 12, 2012, 09:57:39 pm
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i no there is proble more then one trend. about this .but i have to ask . and hope sum one can point me in the right path . can sum one tell me step bye step easy way to do this . i have never try ed it be for i let my buddy keep my buck hide from that 8point i killed. . i would really like to try this on the nexted one i kill but i don't no wear to start really . i would like to make me a nice back quiver for nexted season win im able toget back out and bow hunt. the nexted deer i take i am going to keep the hide myself and give this a shot just want to no what im getting my self in to .. i have plenty of time to work on this as right now i cant do much.and all i have been doing is hunting .
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The short answer is no,there is no easy way to do this. Brain tanning is a complex and multi-step process completed over several days and involving the strictest attention to detail.Even a basic description of how to do it would fill several pages. I reccomend reading up on this forum or paleoplanet. I have tanned a few deer , an elk, otter, nutria, and i mostly use the "wet scrape method" as outlined in Matt Richard's book.
But, ok,ok, i will try to give a one paragraph description.
1. soak for several days in water
2. scrape off hair, and "membrane" (outer layer of the flesh side of the skin)
3. soak a couple days in a lye solution
4. scrape off epidermis- the upper layer of skin
5. soak in neutralising / acidifying solution 1 day
6. rescrape membrane + sew holes.
7. soak in brains, eggs or soap and oil
8. wring.
9. now the hard work starts- continually stretch and manipulate until dry- 4 to 8 hours..
10. sew into a bag shape
11 suspend over a fire of very rotten wood, forcing smoke inside the bag
12 turn bag inside out and smoke again
13 do the last 6 steps over again because it didn't come out as soft as you'd have liked.
well done braintan is so awesome that it's actually worth all the trouble, but it's easily as hard as making a good bow, and like bow making it never seems to come out perfect.
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I do a lot of brain tanning,I will try and put a pictorial together with some explanation of what I am doing,I use the dry scrape method so will be a little different than aaron,but he is right,it is a lot of work and very time consuming.
I always allow 2 days ,and that is after the membrain and hair has been scrapped and it is in rawhide form.I tried to figure the time I had in a hide from skinning the deer to brain tanned leather and figure I have about 25/30 hours in a hide. One thing to be careful if you plan on tanning the next hide is be sure to not use a knife when skinning except to get it started,we call it fistting the hide off.Every wheir you put a nick with the knife in the flesh side you will have a spot either thin or rough on the finished leather. Good luck. There are some pretty good books out there for doing this. I had a good friend teach me so have never read them :o but have been told they will help. :)
Pappy
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Yes I've done quite a few successful hides brain tanning and the first timer usually does'nt like the elbow grease work it takes to get one done but it is worth it in my book.Pappy's right about the knife slits.STAY AWAY from them the best you can,and there are plenty of books out there too.The one that helped me the most was John Mcphersons'[praire wolf] series.Google it.
It only takes me about 8 hours to do a hide for myself though.I mean actual working time on it.Your at the mercy of the weather for drying unless you do it inside with a fan like say in the winter.One time when conditions were right I took a yearling deer hide to rendezvous.Started at day break.In the frame fleshing it,letting it dry,dehairing it,braining it,and roping it dry by nightfall.Letting it dry to dry scrape dehair after fleshing can take a couple days.I prepare all of mine in a frame and rope it dry out of the frame by hand on a rope.It's a lot like bow making.Be & stay determined you'lll get there.
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thanks for the info guys sounds like a lot of hard work but i am going to give it a shot . on the nexted deer hide i get my hands on . and ,pappy a pictorial would be grate .
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Step One: Find something you have that Pappy really really would like to have.
Step Two: Offer to trade him that special something for a brain tanned hide.
Step Three: After Pappy tells me I'm outa my mind, sit around the fire at Twin Oaks and ponder a moment.
Step Four: Wait for Will to show up.
Step Five: Offer a deal to Will in a trade for a brain tanned hide.
Step Six: Sit and look deep into the fire with a Coor's and ponder some more.
Step Seven: Give up the idea and frown at Will and Pappy as they roar with laughter at the silly but never the less wonderful offers. :P
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sounds like experience talking Jon.and i have seen you at the fire drinking coors.did you ever get the hide?
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Nice description, Jon!!! ;D ;D
You have just heard from (at least) 3 people who KNOW what they are talking about. I have read Mcphearsons book and it made the whole process very simple for me. I've only finished 5 hides, but that's enough to know that it is work. I have a whole lotta respect for those ambitious folks who finish multiple hides a year!!
Scott
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Naw no hide yet but one must always ponder and hope! :)
Actually I never tried to dicker over a hide with Will or Pappy. I been pondering it. :P :P :P
I know it takes 30-45 hours to do one hide and I know for a fact Pappy and Will just put to much effort into tanning to even make an foolish offer. ;D
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I have from time to time partaken of a Coor's while solving the worlds problems and ponderin with friends around the fire pit at Twin Oaks. O:)
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i have seen your pondering in action Jon.you guys have all the fun.see you soon buddy.
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I have done a few with mixed results, first one came out great but others not quite as soft as I would want, Like, Pappy an others have said, lots an lots of hard work, I have heard all kinds of prices for brain tanned hides an I,m here to tell ya they are worth every penny. Once you start stretching an pulling there is no break or hide will dry hard, Lots of work but so rewarding when you get one soft, Just my .02 worth. I got 4 or5 in the freezer that are my next project, Beaver seasons fast approaching an I need the freezer space :o Good Luck an let us know how yours turn out. Bob
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Jon you ant right. ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D Made me laugh tho. :) :) I will try and get some pictures but the books mentioned are good ones,I have skimmed through them ,just to hard headed to change the way I do it much. :) I do hides like I do bows,in stages.Always keep some part of it going.I have 10 or 12 in rawhide form and ready to tan,5 left in the freezer,I soaking to thaw and will need fleshing and racking this weekend and one on the rack almost scrapped,just like a little around the sides,so I just move from one part to another when I get tired or bored. :)
Pappy
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Just a little note, i'm no pro but have had some good results.
a curved cabinet scraper is a great way to take of the hair an epidermis in one pass.
when the hide is dry it just curls away.
Once its scraped I use a torn piece of belt from a sander - works great to work up a nice nap .
now if i was smart , i'd mount that cabinet scraper in a handle...but that'd be way too easy
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Never thought about a scrapper like that,I have several and may give it a try,I use on on a handle.
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those look like some good scrapers Pappy,
I made one similar shaped from a snapped off old file (here) and i use it to get started (at the neck area)
but i find that i have to be SO careful with the angle, or it'll pop through or I can easily scar the hide I'm scraping, with one misplaced pull.
the cabinet scraper edge (because it has such a miniscule burr) can handle strong pulls and leaves the hide evenly scraped.
but i'm always looking for the easy way!
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Yes I have a couple like them I made and found the same thing,guess I just didn't get the angle just right when I made them,they work but a lot harder to use than these I have now. :) Back when Jesse was around he ordered these for us somewhere on line.They should last forever if taken care of but I do plan on trying the cabnit scraper,just never thought about using one.Thanks. :)
Pappy
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youre welcome, I have a hide stretched drying now and unfortunately the guy who skinned it
musta really wanted to use his new hunting knife, so it has a lot of slashes.
I'm hoping that using the curved cabinet scraper, (which i used on my last skin for the first time)
its going to ride over those nicks and slashes easier. I'll give a report about it.
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I have a few that are the same way,I now only keep hides that I skin myself,no knife except to get it started at the legs.I have also started using a sander with 60 grit on both sides of the hide and that will thin out the thick areas and also help clean up any slashes. I have used sanding stone but they don't last very long,the sander seem to work better for me, not very primitive , but O well.
Pappy
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here's a pic of the process using a curved cabinet scraper.
I started it up close to the neck edge with the standard scraping tool...you can see the little nicks!
once it was started,
this top part here? took about ...sheesh...20 seconds. I use the scraper in both hands just like you do when scraping wood.
the second pic is the scraped hide.. it was a little damp at the bottom,but the scraper worked ok anyway. I go pretty close to the edges.
one larger hole (on the left) the scraper did pop into and made a couple tiny 1/8" tears in it ... i wasn't being careful...
after the hairs gone,
the scraper works good for thinning the hide too.trying to save these shavings for hide glue.
nice to have such an all purpose tool you can put in your pocket.
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That's awesome guys. I picked up a deer skin from the ditch "someone" through after they skinned out. It had been a road kill they took home and took all good meat off and then discarded near a friends house in the country. Score. Used a beaver skinning knife to flesh it out. Took 3 hrs as they did skin it well and was slightly froze yet. HAve it soaking for the 4-6 days then will scrape off hair. Might try using the beaver knife again but will be hard on blade. Like the wood scraper idea
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I'm really enjoying this post. I had a date with Pappy and the fellas at Twin Oaks this past December and we were gonna do a hide, so that I could learn. Unfortunately, I couldn't make the trip so, I'm without the "hands-on" training I was very much looking forward to. I am going to give it a go, here at home with maybe a small hide that I have in the freezer. The pictorial would be great, Pappy.
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I will see if I can put something together,need to make another business trip South Matt. >:D ;) ;D ;D. n8tr,do you plan on wet scrapping ? soaking 4 to 6 day in what ? you may have bucket of mush.I would check it regular and when the hair starts to slip go for it. The problem with slipping the hair is the hide is just a very short way from spoiling so you have to be more careful to not let it go to long.
dry scrapping it really don't matter once they are fleshed and dried they will last for years kept in a good environment. :)
Pappy
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Thanks pappy. In water checking daily with fresh water also. I'm using a product called "hide tanning formula" from my trappers outpost. I have used it for tanning pelts for guys and thought might try on deer hide. If you think this might not work let me know, I'm just in the soaking stage 1-1/2 days so should be no problem stopping now.
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Should work if you have used it on pelts,never used before so can't really say,but
bet it will. :) Let us know how it goes. :)
Pappy
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I'm no expert, but having some good successes with no special tanning formulas but just brain itself.
There's no need to wait till the hair slips if you scrape it stretched dry.
you scrape off the epidermis (or scarf skin whatever you want to call it) along with the hair.
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if you want to stretch soaked hides, you can take one out and lay it on a concrete surface and squeegie the water off .
I may be crazy, but i lace the entire hide loosely(about 2" apart) with cord before stretching it on the frame. this way cord is being tugged against cord, not hide.
lay it out flat as possible and use short pieces of bailing twine to stretch-out and tie the neck and the legs int he right directions before doing any stringing (otherwise it might bunch to one side)
I like using the bailing twine because its different in color than the stretching cord. once its all stretched taut, you can cut the twine loose if you want.
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Thanks richardzane. The instructions say to soak to get hair slip, scrape, then place in a salt solution for 8-10 hrs. rinse in cold water. Thin skin where needed and hang to dry.Then warm up tanning solution and apply to hide evenly massaging into all areas. Let stand for 12-16 hrs then over the next 2-3 days pull and stretch as it dries to "break" the grain.
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The only time you really NEED to soak a skin that you wish to make leather with is when it is totally dried out and that would be to fully rehydrate the skin. THAT is usually done with a saltwater brine.
I don't soak my skins any more than I have to. I just scrape them. I like scraping them best when they are right off the deer, but this isn't always possible or practical when you have lots of deerskins to do. People drop off their deerskins here and well I collect a LOT of them.. so now I use a powerwasher to flesh them and then I take an animal shears to clip the hair real short. The reason I do that is that they all bag and freeze in a much smaller size.. so that is good.. I can squeeze more in a smaller space. I bag them after salting and then freeze.. usually they stay damp.. Damp, the skin is already ready to scrape.. I usually scrape all the loose hair off the flesh side, then flip over and 'grain' them. I grain them over a narrow beam. Wood is best. Anyway, they all scrape different. Some times on the bigger hides they'll scrape JUST super.. I am talking absolutely no soaking.. of course I've used the washer to both flesh and wash the blood and dirt off the fur side anyway.. so I've gotten the skin side WET. and simply frozen it. If I salt them the skin doesn't readily freeze together.. well salt and freezing is kinda odd anyway but salt will pull some unwanted elements out of the skin anyway.. well anyway, If my skins are simply too difficult to BRUTE strength the hair and grain off of. I simply soak the skin so that it is relaxed and then hang it up to drip the excess water out of.. , you wouldn't want this hanging in the wind or anything because then the flesh could dry out and then you'd have to rehydrate it to work it.. lol.. (don't ask me how I know this).. anyway I work lots and lots of skins and I can get a wet scraped skin to soften and appear like a dry scraped one, see??
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/1braintanner/Deerskins%20for%20braintanning/IMG_20120630_175233-1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/1braintanner/Deerskins%20for%20braintanning/IMG_20120630_175302-1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/1braintanner/Deerskins%20for%20braintanning/IMG_20120630_175335-1.jpg)
this is me the braintanner.. with brawn AND brains.. lol.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/1braintanner/Deerskins%20for%20braintanning/IMG_20120721_201302-1.jpg)
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Thanks paulette, that's Awesome> That is good lookin buckskin. I will maybe be changing the way I do this one. I need to look at the manufacturers website to see what else they recommend before I change it. I have another one to do and will brain that one and see the difference
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I do like Pappy and Richard do like the frame for softening a LOT! I have a ladder rung that is metal and rounded on the ends that I love to use for a staker to work and stretch the hides.. helps a lot!
Richard.. I like that cabinet scraper thingamagij.. that is awesome looking.. will have to try one of those some time.. Hopefully one can still find those things?
Pappy.. Good idea on the sanding. Lots of folks that give skins to me also make some slashes.. some don't but maybe half do! It is a good tip I will have to try that if I do decide to follow through on some like that.
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keep in mind that n8tr is using a chem tan process, which is quite different from the brain tanning process being described by everyone else here. I have no experience with chem tanning.
just google "hide tanning formula trappers outpost" and you'll see the product he is using.
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I have reloaded the water in the bath.hope tomorrow I will see visible slip or friday. I have used the solution on fox pelts and they have come out really nice and supple. Yes they are thinner leather but it is a citric acid based solution. I also plan on smoking the hide when done for the rich colour and water repellent qualities. I will post picks when done. Oops I don't know if it will fit in my pipe :-\
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Paulette,
nice work on that deer skin!
you can get cabinet scrapers through woodworker supply http://woodworker.com/fullpres.asp?PARTNUM=810-145&LARGEVIEW=ON
they have that curvy one available.
If i don't have time to brain-soften right away after scraping the hair off , I'll cut it off the frame, roll it up and store it dry.
If after scraping hair, i'm ready to brain it, i'll rub blender pureed cooked brain "soup" on while its stretched,...both sides, let it soak till its soft enough to fold,then cut it off.
submerse the hide 6 times in brain solution and twisting it out each time for maximum penetration.
then i'll hang it to dry a bit,checking on it often so it doesn't get too dry.
I actually do a lot of the softening using a cable strapped to a post i use it for pulling and stretching. final stage i use my feet and hands in front of the wood stove,
drop a corner of it on the floor ,step on it and pull upwards and just keep at it till its dry. i'll put up some pics of my last two "finished" hides... but they aren't smoked yet.
softening on the frame using an axe handle or other rubbing tool DOES have advantages...you get a very nice soft FLAT hide. BUT its also difficult to get that final softness (like flannel) you get by a cable or rope. it also makes some areas extremely thin ,where as tugging and pulling allows the thinner areas to compress a little more?
if any stiff spots show up on the hide when its dry you can always send it back to the brain solution.
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Thanks for the link and the comments, Richard.. I am listening intently! Looking forward to seeing more. :)
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Thanks Paulette, and i'm paying attention to your methods too.
seems there are so many ways to do this tanning stuff and end up with similar results!
its always good to know what others find helpful and also what saves "un-necessary" labor
though you know as I do, there is just no way around hours of dedicated time to it.
here's my last two hides, still unsmoked.
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ewwww.. yeah.. you've said a 'mouthful' there, Richard! love seeing your skin pics! those two look really really really nice.. thanks for sending them.. sure it helps keep me focused as I scrape and scrape away down in my dungeon! I will have to look for another 'unsmoked' skin pic to send in re: ;D I only softened the flesh side of the one in the pic.. can't say as I used brains or eggs.. been a little while.. like I COULD have used eggs.. but I much prefer to use brains.. just a lot nicer IMO.. anyway fun swapping pics.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/1braintanner/100_1207.jpg)