Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: kid bow on December 08, 2012, 04:31:38 pm
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i need to know if anyone knows of a very strong glue i can use to glue components together for an experiment and it requires an extremely strong glue
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Hide glue is the strongest that I know of, it just isn't water resistant.
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it needs to be heavily glued and backed so im asking if anyone knows of a very strong glue
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Well, different kinds of glue are better suited to different kinds of jobs. what exactly are you trying to glue?
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splices on a handle
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Depends on what you are gluing. Traditional hide glues are the strongest in the world. Modern science hasn't been able to best it. What it has done is make it more convienenty to store, make it water proof etc. But those things come at a cost of strnegth.
Epoxies can be super strong. Look into "G2 Epoxy"
I like URAC-185 but it isn't made any more. I just glued up a bow with "Weldwood plastic wood filler" which seems comprable to Urac only less expensive and no shelf life.
Tight Bond 3 is hard to beat if the surfaces are well matched.
:o:P :-* :laugh:
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thank you
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Where does this idea that traditional hide glue is the strongest come from? Hide glue IS very strong and versatile and it really is the best for sinew but there are plenty of stronger and even more versatile glues out there.
You are probably going to have to go with what you can get. I would recommend DP 460 from 3M but you might not be able to get it and it is extremely expensive.
The G2 is likely more readily available. T-88 from the same manufacturer is also outstanding.
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I have used Urac, it is good glue, but messy as hell. I prefer 2-ton Devcon epoxy slow set (30 minute set)....the quick set is crap.
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i thank you guys for the help on this. since 2 of my favorite bows broke im trying to splice components from each together. so like recurve tips and a handle riser
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I saw some tests done with Knoxx hide glue one time. The guy running the test mixed the glue up in a corning wear ceramic bowl. He didnt use all the glue and it set up in the bowl on him. When it did, as it dried it contracted and ripped chunks of cermaic up off the bottom of the bowl. I was amazed to see the pictures and read his article.
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Hide glue has the advantage of being water soluble so that the parts can be soaked in water and taken apart. Other than that, hide glue does not have any advantages over epoxy's or other modern glues.
For the strongest bonding of wood with the most economical glue, use a slow set, 2-part epoxy and follow the directions to the letter.
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That perceived greater strength of hide glue when it pulls stuff apart is because of its ability to shrink, not so much because it has greater holding power in peel/shear etc.
If you put two blobs of good Epoxy on a ceramic bowl and had something spanning them that could be tightened like a turnbuckle the epoxy would also pull the coating off the bowl as well.
Good hide glue has an elastic property to it though, that is likely unmatched by modern glues.
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The mechanical design of the joint is as important as the glue...
I know, I just had a handle splice fail on me >:(
But I fixed it :)
Del
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Nelson has replaced Urac-185 with Unibond 800 which is probably the same thing with a different name. I would choose this new glue over any of the standard epoxies.
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Where does this idea that traditional hide glue is the strongest come from? Hide glue IS very strong and versatile and it really is the best for sinew but there are plenty of stronger and even more versatile glues out there.
You are probably going to have to go with what you can get. I would recommend DP 460 from 3M but you might not be able to get it and it is extremely expensive.
The G2 is likely more readily available. T-88 from the same manufacturer is also outstanding.
I didn't save the link naturaly becasue I dind't expect to get into an accademic argument. There was an analysis of the various strength measurements of glues done. The old hot hide glue came out on top. It may have been lower (slightly) in some individual measurement like torque or shear... I dn't know. I just remember being blown away thinking that my precious TBIII was bested by technology that existed for thousands of years.
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It's not really academic if we put the discussion into practice. Torque and sheer are very important in a glueline subject to typical bow forces.
We rarely see glue tested in the lab in a bowbuilding context which is why those links that "prove" hideglue is the strongest have to be taken with a grain of salt.
Here's a link to some non bow tests that show some comparisons in a variety of glues. http://www.oldbrownglue.com/pdf/HowStrongisYourGlue_FWW.pdf
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I like to let the glue start to set a little before application (2-part epoxy) I won't apply when runny. Thanks for the link.
VMB
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I noticed that also Eric. Unibond-800 looks like Urac-185 except with a different name.
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I like to let the glue start to set a little before application (2-part epoxy) I won't apply when runny. Thanks for the link.
VMB
A better trick is to at least prime your surfaces with the freshly mixed glue and then add a coat when it starts to thicken before finishing your glue-up.
Some woods like to drink up a larger amount when initially applied.
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Some woods like to drink up a larger amount when initially applied.
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Thirsty wood starving a glue joint is a sure cause of failure, Pat. With hide glue, I do like to size the wood with the glue first and let it cure out completely. Make sure to lightly sand before the next glue application, though.
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Rather not mention any other glues other than water based TB, hide glue etc....etc..... I have heard nothing but good stuff about G-2 and it's readily available almost everywhere. Many Bowyers are using it for laminating.
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Yes, Pat I do that as well, did not mention it good point.
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Hide glue and smooth on epoxy is what I use.Both are plenty plenty strong for bow making of various different applications of forms.
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Nelson claims that this Unibond 800 is even betterer than their old Urac 185 product. We'll see.
I did ask specifically if you could still use the Ammonium Chloride trick to get a "clear" version of the glue, and they told me that you can. You'll want to play around with your ratios till you get it right, but it should work just fine.
OneBow
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With this glue was glued the wooden propeller from the Airplanes in the 1 WW.
It's water resist
BINDAN-P HOLZLEIM Propellerleim