Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Cameroo on October 08, 2012, 06:35:14 pm
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Well it's been over a year since I last posted a bow here, so I was looking forward to showing this one off. I have been slowly chipping away at it for over a year, working on it a little bit here and there. It was an evolving project that started off being a holmie-ish bow, which I later decided to try heat treating and flipping the tips slightly. It ended up being in the low 40's at 28" draw, but I had put over 100 arrows through her, and after some tweaking with the knocking point and brace height, it was one of my sweetest shooters to date. The string ended up tracking just to the right of the handle, and being a lefty, this was a pleasant accident because it seemed to shoot all of my arrows close to the same, regardless of spine. I was grouping arrows with this bow like I never have before. I put 3 coats of poly on it and I was just contemplating what to do for a handle wrap when I decided to take some pictures before I put it on because there were some nice looking knots in the handle area. So after taking some glamor shots, I asked the better half if she could take some full draw pictures for me. I had her held back for about 15 or 20 seconds while she snapped away (I know, I'm a retard!), and that's when I heard the sound of heartbreak - "TICK" After inspection I found that the back had failed at the location of a pin knot pretty much right at midlimb. I'm pretty bummed right now, but I know that this type of thing happens...
Here are a few pictures of the bow that might have been.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/640/chokecherry/profile.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/640/chokecherry/closeups.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/640/chokecherry/fulldraw.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/640/chokecherry/draw.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/640/chokecherry/tick.jpg)
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Man. I was just slobbering over the pics when I read your bad news. I love the shape on that one and hate to hear she bit the dust!! :'(
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Dude....brace it,shoot some liquid control super glue in the crack n then umbrace it,then rawhide back it. That one is worth salvaging in my opinion
Looks sweet
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She didnt bite the dust...
Patch her up, keep shooting while ya keep building the next.
Super glue then wrap in sinew, rawhide or thread.
I think the most important trait in an artist is to make the mistakes work.
Think Michelangelo never struck an errant blow while whacking away on some marble?
I like the bow, it would be a shame to toss it in the fire pit.
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Dad-blatted rass-afrattin' fuddermutzin' rushaschmutz! GaRRR! She's too pretty to fail!
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I'm going to try super glue, a wrapping of thread, and then more CA (or maybe just coat the wrapping in polyurethane?). The crack runs about 1.5-2 inches along the back, and is a splinter about 1/8" wide. I couldn't really get the camera to focus properly for a close-up.
Thanks for the encouragement guys. Now that I'm done feeling sorry for myself, I suppose it's not as catastrophic as I first thought.
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Good luck, Cam. It's never catastrophic until it is!
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Since its cherry and a known possible prone to being weak in tension,I wood rawhide the working portion of the limbs. A patch will only cure that one isolated spot. It might be the only weak spot and will hold with a patch,but it has already shown being overstressed in tension,and rawhide backing is a much better solution. It covers all the bases instead of one.
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You are probably right blackhawk, I just didn't want to cover it up :) But I suppose if I want it to survive that would be wise. I will do as you suggested, thanks for the advice.
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I have read the opinion of others, who might say in cases like this to move on to the next one. I won't give up on one 'till it's broke. That one is to sweet not try and fix it IMO. CA glue and rawhide back it. Thicker rawhide if it were me.
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Doesn't look half bad to me. I've had 1" by 16" splinters come off and it still shoots.....
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Yes please try to save her......that brace shot and full draw look nice. Well worth saving. You did a good job.
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I just had an osage molle fail in exactly the same way and I superglued it, rawhide backed it, wrapped it with serving thread soaked in super glue and never heard from that crack again. I have about 1000 arrows through the bow now.
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Sound advice about the super glue and rawhide.You'll be shooting her yet 5 years from now or more.Looks like it is mostly sapwood correct? Except for some heartwood in the handle.Reason I asked is I've got some choke cherry here too on my assembly line I'd like to get to sometime.Thanks for posting yours.It has a very good side view profile braced and unbraced.I'll put some yearling deer hide on the back of mine.
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nooo, poor thing. I have very little experience repairing bows but there are a lot on here that do.
Must be worth a shot.
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I would have to add, to heat treat the one spot where the splinter is, heat the belly of course. When that splinter lifted, you lost some strength there in the wood and heat treating that ONE section of the bow will give you the strength back. I have had to do that where splinters have lifted and caused hinges in the past. Good luck, you can fix her!
Oh, and do that first thing before ANY glue or rawhide etc....
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Nice looking bow,worth a try,super glue and rawhide sounds like good advice to me. Good luck and let us know how it turns out. :)
Pappy
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Mmmmm, nuts. I've had two bust on me over the last several months. An ironwood bend in the handle that had a knot and the hearbreaker - sinew backed osage. Ugh! I don't know what to blame it on so I'm just saying it was defective osage... ???
Like you said, it happens. But, man what a sweet looking bow design and beautiful wood! I'd try to save it.
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Bummer about the tick but at this point you have put allot of heart and soul into your bow and it shows. She is worthy of trying to save in my opinion
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Back it!!! Way to nice not to give it a chance???
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Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement guys. I'll try to get her fixed up and let you all know how it turns out.
One question about the CA glue - I'm assuming I want to brace the bow to open the crack so it fills with glue, and then quickly unbrace it so the glue sets up with the bow in it's relaxed state? Just want to make sure before I proceed, as I've never had to do this before (usually my failures go BOOM! :) )
Sleek - I'll try giving her some more heat first to stiffen her up. If I have to touch up the tiller that's no big deal.
Beadman - The chokecherry was only about 3" in diameter before I floor tillered, so there was a fairly high crown (at least by my standards, coming from a guy who makes board bows). But you're right, most of the heartwood was removed. I have a couple more chokecherry staves and I will definitely be backing them.
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Dont brace it, takes to long, just bend across your knee a few times to work the glue in then press hard to set the glue in there. Use allot of glue.
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...shoot some liquid control super glue in the crack n then umbrace it,then rawhide back it. ....
I had success with a silk plaster the way Torges describes it: I superglued on umbrella silk and wrapped tight with thin strong thread on a bamboo backed bow some thousand shots ago.
Dont brace it, takes to long, just bend across your knee a few times to work the glue in then press hard to set the glue in there. Use allot of glue.
I think that's better than bracing, too, but have a helping hand to do it!
Yes, supernice bow!
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Cracks on the belly will open up as you draw the bow. The crack tries to get shorter and wider under compression. On the back, they will close up under tension, trying to get longer and thus thinner. Warm the glue and the crack.
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All good advice. Medicinewheel, I think Blackhawk made a good point about backing the entire working limb instead of just the affected area, so I'm going to go with what I know and that's rawhide backings. I'm sure silk would be just as effective, if not better, but I have rawhide on hand :)
Slimbob, thanks for the tip on warming the bow and glue, I suppose that would really help the wood wick-up the glue. I will try that. Luckily I'm a great procrastinator, and haven't got around to gluing it already! :)
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Good deducting there.With the crown and all it probably called for a rawhide back to begin with.I've fell short on insight on some wood too,and I think this bow still can be one of your favorites for a long long time.
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Well I got the crack glued up and have rawhide drying on one limb as I type. I tried an experiment for the backing glue-up. I don't know if anyone else has tried something similar to this, but it derived from the technique I use for glueing rawhide on my board bows - basically the rawhide gets sandwiched between the bow blank and another straight board and clamped up. Obviously this can't be done on a self bow because of the crowned back. So what I did was sandwiched the rawhide between some semi-rigid foam and the bow. I also made a padded caul that is shaped to the belly contour. I'm hoping the foam will make the rawhide form to the back and provide enough pressure to give a good bond, but not so much that it squeezes all of the glue out and starves the joint. I took a video of the process, if anyone is interested I'll upload it and post a link. I know a lot of people just wrap it with twine, or ace bandages. While I've never tried that, I picture all kinds of problems with doing it that way, mainly it being messy, it would leave markings in the rawhide, and the overhanging rawhide would be wrapped around the bow.
Like I said, this is just an experiment, but so far it's looking real good. :)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/640/chokecherry/glued.jpg)
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Good luck, Keep us updated.I always just wet the raw hide till it is soft and put it on like a snake skin. That looks really thick,must be cow hide. :)
Pappy
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You're right pappy, it's cowhide. I prefer deer rawhide but this is what I had :)
Here's a link to the video if anyone wants to check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SimvkFMFyJQ
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You may want to give that rawhide a healthy, even sanding once it's stuck tight.
Rawhide is some tough stuff.
Your glue up method looks to be just fine. Reminds me of how the glass guys do it. Where is the air compressor and fire hose?
In regards to the more traditional methods, it aint that messy. I also burnish the rawhide after the glue has sat bound up for an hour or so. The hide is still moist at that point. It helps adhesion and gets rid of any texture from my wrapping, old tee shirts in my case.
I did notice, your string nocks are cut into the back of the bow. I know there is very little stress there with this design but it may cause an issue at some point. Just food for thought...
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Thanks for the feedback. I was already considering putting tip overlays on. There is a small crack or check in the wood out past one of the string grooves that had me slightly concerned, so I probably will end up putting some on.
I've got a unique idea for my handle wrap brewing inside my head, I can't wait to get to that point so I can try it out. I'll just say that it's inspired by the work of whip makers :)