Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Stringman on October 08, 2012, 12:14:27 pm
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It seems I found a little secret in this stave. There have been a few of these pop up out of this tree. So instead of cutting it up into firewood, I'll ask here first. What are my options, the stick is beautiful excePt for the series of checks right in the middle of this limb.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s670/cotton7611/68EB5C98-5D9F-4AEB-8C1A-8FBE8978AF3E-4343-000007B926626A56_zps786a0cb1.jpg)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s670/cotton7611/0C2CB234-C147-4D9B-BB61-E6EDAF44E422-4343-000007B935D152C5_zps93238866.jpg)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s670/cotton7611/8A5AC913-D2BF-4125-8725-C1483A1D9957-4343-000007B92ED01637_zpseaa86af5.jpg)
I had even considered laying this bow out on the side of the stave, but I think I would rather try a conventional lay out.
How high are my chances of success by having those checks in the middle of the limb? Might this be a good candidate for sinew?
Scott
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Keep the checks in the lines of the bow and your good to go. Farther from the edge the better. Fill them with good super glue.
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Well, those were my initial thoughts... Not sure the checks will ever open up, they seem pretty tight. Will they cause problems with tiller? Annoying pops? And the ultimate question... Would you ever use a stave like this for a bow you planned to give/sell??
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Probably not,they sometimes go away as you work the stave and sometimes just keep popping up all the way through the build,no way to tell except go at it.I don't have them often but have had enough to know they are very unpredictable on how they effect the stave/bow. :) Not much help I know but that is waht I have always found working on that type stave,about the time you think you got it made another will pop up. :)
Pappy
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My gut first feeling on your stave is that it will hold together,but it might be a bow you will want to keep around for yourself as an experiment so to speak.Putting a couple of courses of sinew on it would help.Fill the cracks with super glue on the belly first.Keep track of how it reacts to your tillering.A person can usually get a good feel for the wood in a bow when you tiller it.Maybe pull it to one thousand full draws on your tillering tree and see if it can handle that.I'd think I'd trust it then.After putting a good finish on it you know.
Old hedge is terrific in compression you know.
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I'm with PD. Keep the checks from running off the edge, fill with super glue and forget 'em. I'm making a Bois d'ark bow for friend of mines boy now. Quite a few wind checks that have been a non issue. Finished tillering this weekend and no problem. Some of the checks go clear thru the limb, back to belly. Rather they not be there, but it has been my experience that they are seldom fatal. You can wrap with sinew for insurance. I did not.
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I wouldn't call those wind checks, I'd call them drying cracks or weather damage cracks. My wood has it probably 60% of the time. I think it's because I store wood outside a lot. I just sent off a billet that had them on the belly. Normally they don't end up in the bow and aren't an issue, but I've made 2 or 3 bows that had them clear through and they worked out fine when filled with sawdust and superglue. Had the superglue fail one time while tillering with a crack that sounded like a .22 rifle. That'll get your ticker ticking! As somebody else pointed out, the closer they are to the limb edge, the more likely they'll open up under stress and cause problems.
A wind check is where the grain separates so they show up on the sides of the stave. Those have killed the bow for me as a rule. I think your stave will make a nice bow, though the belly cracks will be unsightly if they don't come out in limb thinning.
George
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Is that from the same tree that the three BBB staves originated?
Many years ago I sinew backed an osage that had checked between growthrings, it was discolored along the checks like your stave shows. I figured that the sinew would prevent any and all failures, but it made several sharp popping noises as it was being brought to full tiller and it hinged horribly right in the area of discoloration.
If you do decide to give it away, be sure to put a lot of arrows thru it first and have a back-up plan.
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I've never had failure due to these wind/stress checks. As said, chasing the next ring may get rid of one and then another may creep up. Keep off the edge like PD said. I have sinewed a couple of bows with this and still shooting them 8 years later. Good luck either way, but would use it if it were me.
Tracy
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Thanks guys for the replies...
Yes Jdub, I believe it is the same tree. Sure hate that u are dealing with the same issues. Have you formulated a plan yet??
George, in my case the checks have too dark a color inside them to be drying cracks. Not sure what to call them, but I'm relatively certain the tree grew that way.
I went ahead and took the stave belly down somewhat to see what would happen to the cracks. Some have disappeared, the one near the handle opened up a little. I kinda got the feeling I might be able to eliminate the back checks by going down another couple rings. Might try to work on that again tmw.
Scott
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Scott-o, I have dumped a pint or so of the really thin superglue into the checks and cracks. Some of them start as horizontal cracks and switch out to verticals. They are everywhere in the piece I am working on. Every time I think I have filled them all, I find another one. I haven't given up yet, though!
Never let good sense and caution get in the way!
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This is a photo of the one I mentioned. It too had the dark area around the checks. Hard to make out in the photo, but there are a number of them. I let this stave sit around for years, partly because of the checks, and partly because the whole stave was a mess. scared me. Very thin rings, high percentage of early growth within the rings, reflex on top deflex on bottom. It has held together in spite of all that. Lot's of bending and flexing during tillering and no issue with the checks. Everything else...yes, issues...but not the checks.
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The cracks are dark because of water damage to the wood. I often find them below damage to the bark of the tree (insect, trimming, cracks in a limb crotch) where water has gotten in. Often carpenter ants will follow the damage into the center of the tree and make a nest. It's much worse down here in Texas than it was up in Nebraska. If there are corresponding cracks on the back and belly there's virtually no chance the cracks don't go clear through. Here's the bow I did where the glue joint failed with a bang in tillering.
Back:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5184/5672556172_87711aedb0.jpg)
Belly:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5137/5538891890_82af5a7b86.jpg)
That small crack by the edge would open up to about an eighth inch gap under load. I went ahead and draw knifed the limb narrower there and removed that one. Then after the 2 super glue and sawdust sessions I wrapped it. The bow is still doing fine but has seen very little use.
EDIT: I found a picture that shows the damage that caused the cracks. Here are a set of billets I traded away. The one on the left shows the discoloration around a branch that had died and left an opening for water to get in. You can see how the damage goes down from it and affected the adjacent wood.
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6038/5907263686_d0f119ec33_z.jpg)
George
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Like the other guys said, as long as the cracks don't run off the edge of the limb you will be okay.
Or you could flaten the back and glue on a strip of hickory...problem solved.
Hamish.
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Now that's a crack!....Think I'll delete my post from shear embarrassment, or crack envy.
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Hay George ...those r mine ill show what those will make...i hope >:D
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If you don't get a bow from them I'll send another set.
Sorry Scott, I didn't mean to hijack. :-[
George
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Nope don't mind in the least! Hijack away.
I'm sure so much depends on the individual stave (no 2 cracks alike.) I think you all are saying what was rattling around in my head. I just wanted to confirm it.
Soy that last bow you posted had to have the mother of all cracks. I don't think I've ever seen a finished bow with that kinda scar all the way thru it.
Scott
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What PD said. Glue and clamp it together. Jawge
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Soy that last bow you posted had to have the mother of all cracks. I don't think I've ever seen a finished bow with that kinda scar all the way thru it.
Sadly, that was my wood too. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Notice a recurring theme here. ::) Don't know what it is about this Texas osage. It makes good bows, but sometimes it really checks. :-\
George
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>:D thank you George I love the stuff you sent me, I am in your debt... stringman I fear no crack however I do fear sending 1 with cracks to somebody else... I would not hesitate to make a bow from that but I would definitely put it throughthe the paces before I get rid of it