Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Zion on October 02, 2012, 10:48:25 pm
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So today i decided to rough out one of the thicker OS shoots. I clamped in some reflex which might become a back-set grip and coated the ends heavily in some partially dried up varnish. The result is a very thick, sticky, glue-like substance which i am confident in. I'll post pics of what i did, and if i did anything wrong i would like to know before it's too late. I left the ends in full width so the effect of checking can be removed when i reduce the tips.
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The pics:
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The sealed ends:
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i dont see why it wont work!
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If you don't seal the exposed wood on the belly it will check all the way to the pith. The entire length of the stave.
Trust me on this.
-Pinecone
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I worked it down to pretty close to the pith. So if i don't seal it now will it check BEYOND the pith, or is it just the pith that checks?
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Doesn't matter how close it is. There's a 98% it's going to check.
Once it gets to the pith it usually stops. But in some cases I've seen it go further.
If you left the handle full width and thickness it WILL check completely through its length.
I'm telling you this bc I want to see this bow full draw :D
I've made many OS bows and its very very difficult to speed dry w/o mad checks.
Best way I found to dry them fast is somewhat detailed and time consuming to type.
But the 100% sure fire way. Seal the ends throw the stave in a corner, mark on your calendar 6 months to a year from that day and forget about it maybe make a few bows inbetween :)
-Pinecone
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I'm with Pinecone on this.
OS is a bugger to dry. If ya get it down to the pith you'll probally be ok.
You can always build up the handle later with wood or rawhide.
Warpage doesnt seem to be a huge deal with OS but I think you are on the right track.
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A friend of mine had a perfect OS stave that was roughed out about the same. it had been drying for about 8 months already with no checks. He pulled it out the other day to show someone his progress and it had a crack the size of the grand canyon running through the handle and way out into the limbs that had formed within the last week. :-\
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Thanks for the advice people, i need it to get this stave through alive. ;)
After what you said Pinecone i think i'm going to seal the entire bow, but mostly on the belly side, tips, and handle. I want to leave as much on the handle as possible right now so that i am not dedicated to anything when i actually start making the bow, however i will take some material off if it's a recipe for huge splitting. Luckily it's getting really cold and damp lately so i'm not as bad off as i could be.
Would porch sealent (the thin kind that is used to repel moisture) work? Or is it too thin? Would i be better using my tar/varnish, or should i buy a bunch of glue? (I'm out.) Sorry about all the questions but i really don't want this thing to split like all my others ::) ;D
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i would think getting a bunch of elmers glue or using shelloc would be the best solution
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But a nice coat of Tru oil, shellac or something on the belly and it should be fine. Moisture will exit the wood just not fast enough to make it crack.
- Pinecone
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OK, sounds good. I have a bunch of tung-oil, i'll use that.
See ya in 7 months y'all ;) ;D ;D
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I got a little experiment going with some ocean spray that I harvested about a month ago. I got about 30 or 40 OS staves so I figured that I could afford to take a chance on one. Now Zion, don't do what I did, listen to the experts on ocean spray, like Bryce. Anyway I sawed the belly of the bow down to the heartwood. I shellacked both ends about 4 inches up and the entire exposed belly. I then did what Bryce emphatically told me not to do. I put it in the hot box for about two weeks at about 120 degrees. The belly had cracks all over the place, but believe it or not the back was crackless!
After the hot box I began taking wood off the belly. I did a little floor tillering until I thought I could put it on the tillering board. On the tillering board I worked it slowly until I heard a crack. Oh no! Was I relieved to find that it was only the bark cracking! I had the little bow severely bent for about five minutes while I contemplated the tiller. I was afraid that I probably made it take severe set. Much to my surprise, no set! I haven't put it to the true test yet by stringing it and shooting it but I am encouraged by the result so far.
I promise to keep you posted with my results and pictures.
Anyway Zion don't do it, but Bryce I could not control myself!
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Rather than start a separate thread I'll ask in this one: should all fresh cut trees/sticks be sealed at the ends? Should I take off the bark or just leave it?
I cut some ash (I think it's ash) the other day, I gave my dad a big 8 foot long section and kept 3 similar pieces for myself.
So, do I just paint the ends or something?
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Dmenzies, I figured you'd leave it 8) but now you know lol. The bark will crack if it was harvested in the growing season, the back will not check. If dried slowly you have a better chance of the bark staying adhered. And when hit with steel wool makes a beautiful back.
P.S. your box is about 20deg. Too warm IMHO
OS when dry won't take much set if any. And it's a good idea to heat treat for added performance
Guess, yes always seal the ends. I use glue bc it's a nice thick substance. As for the bark being left on it depends on the species. With ash I THINK it's safe to remove the bark and seal the ends and back.
-Pinecone
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What I want to know is where in the world did you find ocean spray that BIG?!!! Wow, hope that seasons well for you. It will one tough bow. All the ocean spray I have found is "arrow diameter".
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It's all over the place, like Vinemaple and cascara it's pretty much a weed. I choose stalks that are and 1 1/4" at one end and 3/4"-1" on the other. Easily makes a hunting weight weapon.
The largest ive ever seen OS was 3" I. Diameter.
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Keep looking Snag.
They do exist!
I have many myself, with out checks... I put glue on the ends and left em be for a year or so now.
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really washington is full of great wood! i havent seen any ocean spray or vine maple. but ive seen that you can make a decent bow from scotch broom! and since the stuff grows EVERYWHERE i think its worth a try. my friend says he has several 4 inch diameter scotch broom that he doesnt need(why would he need it?!) so ill be getting plenty of that too.
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Hey Snag,
When I first moved here from Montana, I couldn't find any. I was expecting to find little stuff like we had in Montana. When I finally found it, it was along a stream that I drove by every day on the way to work. The stuff had obviously been growing there since the highway was built and no one had touched it. Everyone one looks at it as annoying brush. I was looking past it. There is some big stuff there. Some is more than 3 inches in diameter so it is some nice stuff. Most of it is reflexed already.
Where do you live Snag? Dale
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Muffin if you can't find Vinemaple then you might want to see the eye doctor lol
Scotch broom does make a nice bow. But needs to be spliced together.
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I swear everywhere i look i see these giant Big leaf maple trees, ive seen one vine maple i think. its at my friends house and its a decoration... so i cant have it. I suppose when i go hunting for VM i should put my contacts in, might help a bit. Ill find some eventually, it will take some time though. hopefully not too long. Why does scotch broom have to be spliced? cant it make a nice self bow?
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Scotch broom doesnt usually grow big enough. You need to cut billets.
Big leaf maple and vine maple grow in the same habitat.
OS and vine maple are often found near each other, in the understory beneath Big Leaf Maple.
OS likes a bit more sun. Vine maple leans and has grey or green bark, very distinct.
Vine Maple is my favorite. I might even like it better than OS...
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Ionic, if you're anywhere near the Gifford Pinchot, Vine maple is all over there but OS is scarce in there (but it's there). Another that's all around the Vine Maple is our native Hazel (no nuts). I've found OS covering the hillsides in all of the Seattle parks and if you drive along I-90 you will see those white plumes all along the edge where the woods meet the cleared area for the highway. Once you recognize that plume, you'll see it everywhere even in the winter when there are no leaves on it). OS is also all over on the east side of the ridge of Snoqualmie pass (Lake Kachess area). I can testify that Scotch broom makes a great bow and it's everywhere in my area. I've pretty much learned to tiller and practiced a lot on Scotch Broom. I have a few short plains style gullwings from it and I have longer pieces so you can find longer bow size pieces. I haven't yet had to splice SB but I do have some billet size pieces ready to be spliced (just haven't done it yet).
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Scotch broom doesnt usually grow big enough. You need to cut billets.
Exactly
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Like i said, my friend has 20+ acres of land, much of it is scotch broom and fir/pine trees, many huge maples, im sure he has vine maple and maybe even ocean spray. I live in the kitsap area, bremerton, port orchard, silverdale, ect. im sure ill find it eventually i just havent been searching as hard as i could have. Anyway, his scotch broom is 4 inch diameter and about 5-7 ft for those pieces, its really amazing when its just left there for years.
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I get all my bow wood from my back yard which is also 20+ acres. Filled with alder, cedar, firs ect. Zero big leaf maple. But 90% of the wood on the plot is Vinemaple. And the creek that flows through is surrounded by OS (not saying that it only grows near water source, I've found in on top of dry mountains ) I've collected tons of staves as I needed them never taking more than 6 a year. And I haven't even made a dent in the VM population, and only cutting wood I KNOW will make a bow.
SIDE NOTE: i've seen some ppl just cut and cut and cut, and maybe getting 1 usable bow. Makes me sick.
So please gentlemen when cutting be conservative.
Ionic. Find a logging road (with the proper permits) head up a bit park it and look 2' of the road you'll see the OS and VM I promise :)
But if your friend has that much land, he for sure has both growing there.
And if yah still can't find any. Come on down and we'll have a VM scavenger hunt.
-Pinecone
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ill have my friend go out and see if he can get anything, maybe he has a ton of it! if he does i am definitely going to ask him to let me have a day trip to cut what i need. More than likely there will be several bows available.
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Snag, i found this great place by a lake, (but in the dry mountains,) where i get all my OS. Ha, there's probably miles of it, and in this one place an old road cuts through a huge forest of it, with nice big pieces on either side. It's a really nice place to be ;)
What i've found, though, is that the bigger OS i've seen grows on hills. Maybe it's my imagination. I actually don't have any bow wood growing on my property which sucks, but i can always get it off other peoples land >:D
Muffin, you do need to go to doctor, VM grows EVERYWHERE in washington! :o ;D ;D
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I'm pretty lucky on where I get my bow wood too. My cousin has 44 acres, and my brother and sister-in-law have 11 where I can get all the vine maple cherry and cascara I can use and the ocean spray I got from a small piece of land that the power company was clearing. Most folks wanted the big stuff for fire wood and all I wanted was the ocean spray. Dale