Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PEARL DRUMS on September 11, 2012, 12:07:27 pm
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Its totally agonizing for me to seal a new bow. My sealing process takes no less than 7-8 full days to work properly and it just KILLS me staring at a new bow....(or two) hanging there drying and not being able to shoot them. I know better than to cut corners on sealing so I continue in agony bow after bow after bow. Anybody else have a process that "kills" them during a build? Patience is far from my strong suit.
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Hate putting on grips,making a string and sealing,the rest is a pleasure. :)
Pappy
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Good point Pappy. It seems I only like making it bend right and shooting it, the rest isnt so much fun.
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I sinew backed my first osage bow 2 1/2 weeks ago. It's difficult to just watch it sitting on the reflex form on the dining room table. A week and a half to go...
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tillering and shooting are most defenantly the most fun but if you think about it this way it helps keep the patience with the rest of it. I most enjoy the completed finished product. sealed griped tiped strung and all. If I finish one and it does not come out as I pictured or close to it than In the end I have resentment on the whole project meaning I did not enjoy any of it. But I I could pic on thing I hate the most it is making the dang strings I hate making strings just hate it but it is part of the finished product. I actually enjoy the finishing work because I try to top my last one with each new one trying to make it more beautiful and better. also what helps me is while my coats of finish are curing I start on the next bow and try to not think to much about it.
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Yeah, making strings, tip overlays (as in other post) and sealing are the hardest parts. Just itching to shoot that bow. I usually take 4 days to seal a bow, 3 coats of tung oil, and than a 50/50 beeswax-mineral oil rub. Seems to hold really nice for years, and you just reapply the beeswax-mineral oil once every year, or after a rough outing.
Gabe
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I fully dip my bows Gabe. It goes on heavy and takes a good while to harden thoroughly. This last one is a real hum dinger and not shooting it hurts....
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I fully dip my bows Gabe. It goes on heavy and takes a good while to harden thoroughly. This last one is a real hum dinger and not shooting it hurts....
when you make your dipping solution do you cut it with anything. Does that have any effect on any glue on the bow with tip overlays or rawhide or sinew?
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I dont cut it at all Matt. I use Deft, Zip Guard or Helmsman urethane. I have dipped maybe 25-30 bows so far and none have had any ill effects from dipping. I especially love it with sinew, rawhide or skins. It totally soaks in and seals up everything. I was hunting last year with a sinewed bow in Indiana during a drizzle. The bow was sealed with Tru Oil and paste wax many times over. The sinew softened up on me in places and the bow dogged out on me. Thats when I switch methods and decided to skin EVERY sinewed bow. I love Tru Oil on naked bows.
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I know a fella who cuts his with some type of thinner to make it cure faster and I would tend to think that when doing so it would have an effect on certain types of glues. I can see how your process would take some extra time. I have never dipped my self I just do many coats of hand rub and with the first few I steel wool it back to surface only allowing any voids and low spots to be filled. then with the last 4 coats I put them on fairly thick with a light steel wooling between them. takes extra time to do all this but sure is worth it in the end. your method sounds bullet proof though I am going to have to try it. I have also done some reading on how bamboo fly rods are finished and seems like they put it in some sort of tube full of there finish then presureize it which forces it deep into the wood. I should look into that as well.
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it is a bit agonizing doing all the finish work, but I actually kind of enjoy it. Mines more hands on. My dad was a furniture restorer, so i have lots of appreciation for the finish process. His favorite method of putting a shine on a table or desktop involved lots of elbow grease, 600 grit on a block, and rubbing the surface with lubricant until he could make out the 2 fluorescent light bulbs on the fixture 20 feet overhead!! I always appreciated his patience and attention to detail. he way undercharged for his work, but he taught me to appreciate the process of pertying up a piece. Of course i never get impatient with the process ::) It does help for me having multiple projects going at different stages.
Chris, is your finish a double dip or single?
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Double dip on rawhide and sinew jobs and a single dip on any other bow Kevin.
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This is what im waiting on.... ;D
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It's not the hardest part but these are the things that I don't like to do.
Grips, tip overlays, making cherry bark shiny, applying the 12 coats of Tru-Oil.
Hahaha I guess I just like tillering and shooting lol
-Pinecone
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This is what im waiting on.... ;D
WHAT THE HECK IS ON THE WALL!!!!
One of them 4WD wheely peg shooters! >:D
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Bryce my wife got cancer a few years back after her lymphodema kicked in, that contraption has been hanging since. It may have 50 arrows through it. The "pretty" blue carpet is our practice room carpet. It may have a beer stain or ten on it.
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Oh man I'm sorry to hear that. My grandmother had the same thing happen. It's rough...
I really hope your wife is doing better now.
You get a whole practice room?! Lucky! I can't even bring my drums home :(
Btw that bow is a beauty! Osage I reckon. Did you ever get that 73" package ;)
-Pinecone
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The whole 2000 sq ft basement is my mancave! Pretty lucky dude. Yes thats osage...........thats why its not in PIECES on the floor! No package yet buddy, Im looking for it and will give it my best shot when I can.
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Beautiful Yella Bow P.D.
Heck man you got a Wheelie Bow on Open Display...
Do you have a Drum Machine too?
>:D
-gus
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Gussy boy I would GLADLY use a wheelie bow before I would even consider touching a drum machine or electric drums...that should tell ya something!
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Pearlie, I can tell you have strong feelings about Osage. But I want you to knwo there are cures for "osageonlyitis.' I am developing a five step program. ::) ::)
I'll let you know when I gets it done.
gabe
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The only cure for "osageonlyitis" is MORE OSAGE >:D
Were told,and tell people to use only the best wood available to you. And since I have lots of hedge then why should I use anything else...lol. :laugh:...jus messin with ya Gabe. I still mess around with the "lesser" woods,but I'm always happy to go back to an osage bow after.
I think the hardest part for me is not having enough time in the day everyday to be making bows. I eat ,sleep,and think of them allllll day long. And being away from it drives me nuts(or is it the other way around..lol). I love this stuff...all of it.
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Pearlie, I can tell you have strong feelings about Osage. But I want you to knwo there are cures for "osageonlyitis.' I am developing a five step program. ::) ::)
I'll let you know when I gets it done.
gabe
Its gonna be a while..........grab a Snickers!
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Heat treating....I hate heat treating, the endless hum of the heat gun...the constant keeping watch and the wait:-(
Like sealing it is well worth it tho:-)
Cheers
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what drives me nut's is me building one bow to your ten, seriouslly the part i have trouble with is working down to a ring, my wrist's are all tore up and it takes two days to make a fist afterwords, Bub
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The old horn bowers used to wait a year sometimes to even tiller a bow. Now that would be an agonizing wait.
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Sanding. That's the hardest/worst part for me. I hate sanding. I think I have it done and I'll start burnishing it and I'll find 10 spots with tool marks. Sand some more burnish some more and then I'll find 11 tool marks >:(
I enjoy sealing a bow. I use tru-oil and its fun to see a finished bow really start to shine. Pearly has me sold on dipping the sinew backed bows though. I'm going to try that on my next one.
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Sanding. That's the hardest/worst part for me. I hate sanding. I think I have it done and I'll start burnishing it and I'll find 10 spots with tool marks. Sand some more burnish some more and then I'll find 11 tool marks >:(
I enjoy sealing a bow. I use tru-oil and its fun to see a finished bow really start to shine. Pearly has me sold on dipping the sinew backed bows though. I'm going to try that on my next one.
Hes got me sold to. I would have expected you to say debarking and chasing a ring after that hugh haul of osage you got a while back. I think that would have burnt me out on debarking. lol
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The only thing I hate is making arrows!! A necessary evil
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Pd u have any problems with runs/sages from dipping and hanging? ??
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I hate de barking, that last bit of cambium drives me nuts.
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what drives me nut's is me building one bow to your ten, seriouslly the part i have trouble with is working down to a ring, my wrist's are all tore up and it takes two days to make a fist afterwords, Bub
Fly on over bubbly and I will let you in on ALL my secrets!
Pd u have any problems with runs/sages from dipping and hanging? ??
Not a one Soybert. I dip one half and about 15-20 minutes later its done dripping and one drip remains on the tip. I touch it with a wad of tp to soak it up carefully (sorry Clint) and viola' its done. Let it hang 2-3 days and repeat. I messed up a tip on Clints HHB bow with over zealous tp use.
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Sanding. That's the hardest/worst part for me. I hate sanding. I think I have it done and I'll start burnishing it and I'll find 10 spots with tool marks. Sand some more burnish some more and then I'll find 11 tool marks >:(
I enjoy sealing a bow. I use tru-oil and its fun to see a finished bow really start to shine. Pearly has me sold on dipping the sinew backed bows though. I'm going to try that on my next one.
Hes got me sold to. I would have expected you to say debarking and chasing a ring after that hugh haul of osage you got a while back. I think that would have burnt me out on debarking. lol
OK, sapwood removal is a close second in the dislike category, but I enjoy chasing an osage ring. My "Bullet" bow took me several days to get a single ring chased on it. I still enjoyed it.
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I would enjoy seeing what you use and how you go about it but one must keep some trade secrets ;)
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Oh yeah, that 3 or 4 day wait from the time you drop a bow off at the P.O until it arrives at its new owner is agonizing too.
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I like walking around, looking at the trees and bushes, really. I don't really like asking people wheter I can cut their stuff. Noone makes bows round here, people look at me like I'm nuts if I ask the if I can cut their tree to make a bow from it. ???
I love starting out, staring at some log for an hour, laying out a bow. Then, should any splitting be involved, and there usually is, that makes me a little tense usually, cause you just never really know. I love axing it out, to hammer away and sweat and really make that wood fly.
Then I do the contours of the front profile with a rasp, I really cherish this, this is where that thing gets a face, so to say. Then I absolutely HATE to rasp out the thickness taper, really. Thats the part I put off and start a new bow instead. Needs to dry first anyway, thankgod.
Once I've gotten it to bend really and start tillering it's all fine from there on. Shooting in is great, get to know my new bow, remember the log it was and feel what I've made of it. Sanding can get lenghty, but its really something nice if you can have a conversation meanwhile.
I'm always really excited to put on the first coat of wax or oil, to see the wood really flame up and shine, that is for me the moment I've been heading for. After that, it can dry in peace, I'm probably already at some other bow anyway.
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The only thing I hate is making arrows!! A necessary evil
yeah, i don't like making arrows either, Bub
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The only thing I hate is making arrows!! A necessary evil
yeah, i don't like making arrows either, Bub
ditto
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I also hate makin arras.
You spend hours getting them perfect, then you miss that dove and the arrow is gone forever.
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When its hickory or elm splitting it is my least favorite part. I dont care too much for sanding out all the tool marks on any wood.
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For me its sapwood removal, rasping down belly thickness and holding that heat gun when I use it. I really enjoy the finishing process and attempting to make each bow unique and individual with dyes, paints, charcoal , handle wraps or whatever I've chosen for the bow.
BUT ; yeah the waiting for finish coats to dry bites.
Greg
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i hate making strings and ring chasing is annoying.
I love roughing out a bow with an ax and shaping the handle.
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This might brand me for life here on PA, but I just don't like making arrows. Not much I don't like about bows, cutting, splitting, finishing. I love it all. I spend way more time on a dozen arrows than I do a self bow, and it's like punishment.
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All you arrow haters need to man up! You cant have a sweet truck without sweet tires and you cant have a sweet bow without sweet bullets for it. Nothing sets off a well finished bow like a well finished arrow in the chamber. I enjoy making arrows, and lots of 'em. Often times just to match the personality of a new bow.
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Pearlie, do you make your own shafts, too?
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The only part I really hate is breaking them, but even that provides a learning experience. I have about five or six started at any one time so I can change things up pretty quick if one is getting boring or tedious.There is a laminated one half finished hanging on the wall for a year now.It scares me .Hand planing the bamboo sliced me up pretty good,more than once.(I think it's cursed). If it doesn't take to tillering ,it's going to be a pretty dramatic blow.I find it's always good to have something else to occupy my mind while waiting for things to dry. You're the one that posted A.D.D aren't you?
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Sorry, PD. I prayed for your wife. I agonize over the first stringing and that last inch to full draw. Jawge
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Getting started is the hard part for me. Once I get started the rest is just fun.
Debarking and removing sapwood from a well seasoned osage stave can be a real pain though.
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All you arrow haters need to man up! You cant have a sweet truck without sweet tires and you cant have a sweet bow without sweet bullets for it. Nothing sets off a well finished bow like a well finished arrow in the chamber. I enjoy making arrows, and lots of 'em. Often times just to match the personality of a new bow.
i man up and make'em, but that don't mean i gotta like it, Bub
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Sorry, PD. I prayed for your wife. I agonize over the first stringing and that last inch to full draw. Jawge
Thanks Jawgey Poo, we aprreciate that. She is doing great now, but the residual effects of the chemotherapy will never go away. Its both good and nasty stuff.
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Mine has to be heat treating >:(
Its the noise and the time it takes. You cant take your eye off it for a minute or burns. You cant hear the radio or the door knock. I don't use any power tools besides the heat gun because I like the quiet time or to be able to hear a play on the radio or some music.
I tend to end up with a queue of bows stuck at the Heat treat or correction stage.
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Turn it up Dwardo! I cant work without some jams playing. I will get my heat gun set up and running on one side of the bench and be working on arrows or another bow on the other side.
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Turn it up Dwardo! I cant work without some jams playing. I will get my heat gun set up and running on one side of the bench and be working on arrows or another bow on the other side.
I kinda got that from your Drum-kit and nick name ;D
My little man has reign over the volume in the house and the only time I get to bow make is when he sleeps.
Soon,
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PD, I am going to put her on my prayer list. We've all been touched by that awful disease. Right now I'm watching my brother suffer, though he seems to be mending physically, he really has some emotional scarring from 9 surgeries in 3 years. In a word...cancer sucks. Jawge
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Ok. Back to the topic. Pappy, hit on it. I'm getting older (64 yrs old) and getting started is always an issue. Once I get started I do enjoy most of it. I must enjoy it because I've been doing it for a lot of years. Jawge
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I know most of you guys are using a heat gun to temper. I start a fire in my smokers fire box, close the lid, and once it's hot I'm off to the races. Couple of spacers and I'm good. No noise. I sit back with a cold "Shiner Bock" and enjoy the birds, or twist strings...or just enjoy my beverage.
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Honestly for me i think someone else hit on it already, i think it was blackhawk. I hate NOT working on my bows. I think about it all day, even when i'm doing other stuff. It's like that first high school crush you could never stop thinking about, cept this one never ends!! Sometimes i just open the garage door and take a peek at my work area just to check on em ::) and remind myself which problem or next step i'm supposed to be dwelling on while i'm doing all that other stuff i have to do!
Chris, as has been mentioned, our prayers are with your wife. My grandmother (82 years old) is still doing chemo treatments for gall bladder cancer (had it diagnosed and removed almost two years ago) that spread to her lungs. As Jawge said, it just sucks. I'd almost take it for her rather than see her go through it. She is made of the tougher stuff though, they just don't make em like they used too!!
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my prayers are with both of them hope they both pull through.
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Part I hate the most is having to stop!!! Sixty year of beat up joints, arthritis and broken bones puts a timer on my shoulders and elbows when it comes to pulling a draw knife, rasping and sanding..... but I think I love it all??? Chasing a ring used to give me fits but I'm starting to enjoy that also...
Drums my thoughts are with you... nothing worse than watching those you love go thorough pain...
Thank God she's doing well ...
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This thread really took off more than I expected. Thats always fun. ;D
Chasing rings and ripping bark is one of my faves. I love that crunchy feel/sound osage gives you when your doing it right. I used to avoid super thin rings, now I dont even look at the ends of staves. I just grab one and go. Chasing whitewood rings will make you good at it in a hurry.
** Thanks for all the thoughts, prayers and comments all. She is doing well now, 18 months clear. But the mental part is always with us, you just cant shake it after the physical part is gone. Every twitch, every nagging pain, every bump all represent possible cancer in our minds, hopefully that subsides soon.
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i hate sanding,but i love to make arrows.just got some red osier dogwood shoots from my good buddy Tim.never tried the stuff,but i am ready to go.also have some multi-flora rose that i just cut when i was in the woods this weekend.arrows are my thing.
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Wow, this thread went up like a bottle rocket.
I for one, really love chasing growth rings on osage. I adore the butt-crack of dawn moment when I line the stave up with the rising sun along the stave to highlight the grain and I find the centerline. Drawing outy the limb profiles is like Christmas Morning. Rroughing it out and shaping the grip is utterly satisfying. Sewing on a leather grip and twisting up the string is pure joy.
I detest tillering. I prefer the prospects of unanesthetized Third World dental surgery from a syphalitic witch doctor with palsey over facing time in the garage tillering.
Oh, and I really don't enjoy shooting bows. I'm in this for the making of bows, not that big into shooting. Odd huh?
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Sanding. That's the hardest/worst part for me. I hate sanding. I think I have it done and I'll start burnishing it and I'll find 10 spots with tool marks. Sand some more burnish some more and then I'll find 11 tool marks >:(
I enjoy sealing a bow. I use tru-oil and its fun to see a finished bow really start to shine. Pearly has me sold on dipping the sinew backed bows though. I'm going to try that on my next one.
yeah...I agree. I like seeing it come out nice and smooth but getting there...frustrating sometimes.
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I detest tillering. I prefer the prospects of unanesthetized Third World dental surgery from a syphalitic witch doctor with palsey over facing time in the garage tillering.
Oh, and I really don't enjoy shooting bows. I'm in this for the making of bows, not that big into shooting. Odd huh?
Interesting J-dub.. i wouldn't say i don't enjoy shooting, but i understand where your coming from. I got into this to make a bow so i could shoot, but i would say i really do enjoy making them much more than shooting. Glad i'm not the only oddball ;)
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But the best part, bar none, for me....is when someone asks to look at my bows, gets really excited, is surprised when I let them shoot it, and then the look on their face when I tell them to keep it. Yeah. That's the best. Very very very best part. But in this crowd, that's probably pretty much normal.
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Sanding. That's the hardest/worst part for me. I hate sanding. I think I have it done and I'll start burnishing it and I'll find 10 spots with tool marks. Sand some more burnish some more and then I'll find 11 tool marks >:(
I enjoy sealing a bow. I use tru-oil and its fun to see a finished bow really start to shine. Pearly has me sold on dipping the sinew backed bows though. I'm going to try that on my next one.
I agree. The worst part is when you sand so much that it changes the tiller, so you have to correct it, and than sand some more.
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I hate sanding and filing the string grooves. I think if I had a better file for the string grooves I could change my attitude on that but for now it takes me forever to do it. But there's nothing that will make me like sanding. I enjoy pretty much all other aspects of bow making though.
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I hate sanding and filing the string grooves. I think if I had a better file for the string grooves I could change my attitude on that but for now it takes me forever to do it. But there's nothing that will make me like sanding. I enjoy pretty much all other aspects of bow making though.
I use a coping saw to carve a triangle groove. This finish with the nock file. Goes real quick :)
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Waiting for sinew backing to cure is torture...though I have found that starting 2-3 more bows during the drying of the sinew provides sufficient remedy for the pain and sleeplessness.
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Sanding can become quick and painless if you gently clean up after yourself as you go. I use 3 sheets of sandpaper max and about 15-20 minutes worth of work. I may lose a pound at most.
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I don't like the finishing work... I have come to a point where I have two or three shooters laying around that need sanding and finishing... My shop reaks of bow mania. Maybe my finishing work will get better with proper hygiene.
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I'm with you PD, don't do near as much sanding to finish as i used to. The main thing that needs it is the sides and a little on the back. I finish tiller with a fine scraper (a razor actually), so by the time its done the belly is babybutt smooth and maybe just needs a touch up around the edges.
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Two thinks are hard for me. The first is the debarking and taking sapwood off osage. The second is the waiting while the tree I just cut dries and cures. I have not been at this long, so I have a pile of bow wood curing right now that I will not touch for a while, and it kills me. I see the beautiful bows on here and want to get started but hte wood still is too wet. I am looking at makiing a drying box...
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I said the same thing Patches, now I have a big pile of gorgeous, dry, yellow wood. Its worth the wait pal.
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Roughing to shape. I don't use electricity and the handsaw, draw knife, coarse rasp,scrapers, hell man, that's
just plain work. The rest is zen doodle magic.
Unless the damn thing breaks.
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Arrow building/fetching with no jig and string making..
These finishing processes sound "fun" could anyone point me to a how to/tutorial for dipping I'd like to make my recent bow a little prettier
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I agonize over laying a bow out and roughing it out. Floor tiller is tough for me cause I'm not great at seeing the bend looking down the limbs. Once I get a stave to the tillering tree, I'm in heaven. I love tillering. It' hard for me to stop once I start. Bend the stick, make corrections. Then see how the corrections worked. Then I've got to correct more, then bend then correct. Next thing I know it's 2 in the morning and all my beer is gone.
Debarking is just work like mowing the yard. It's gotta be done. I do enjoy chasing a ring once I start. It's like zen.
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For me it is begining. When I have half of the stave that is 10-20# of physical weight and have to adze it to near-to-bow-dimensions, all hardwood. Terrible. :embarassed:
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PD.I've gone to a lacguer finish called percatalyzed magnalac.It dries in twenty minutes per coat.Three coats with a half inch brush or if your set up to spray it the better.Keep a small jar of lacquer thinner nearby to put brush in inbetween coats.Harder than any poly out there.Plenty flexible too.If it gets scratched sand it to a feather and recoat it with no problem.No lines just steel wool it.I get the dullest finish they have.
Cutting string knocks can be a look and see look and see affair for me.
My mother & mother in law died of cancer too.You know what they say it's the things that about kill ya that make you stronger,but cancer is relentless and a real bastard phantom in the dark.