Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Bow on August 02, 2012, 06:36:57 pm
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Hello, I have a few questions for you guys, and I might update this thread with more questions later.
I'm thinking about going with the English longbow style for my 72" bowstave. Is this a good choice? What are the advanages and disadvantages of ELB compared with, say, a Cherokee or American longbow style?
I bought a 10" draw knife and a deluxe tiller stick (http://"https://rudderbowsarchery.com/shopping/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=74) for carving. Do I need anything else? (I also bought James Easter's DVD on osage carving along with a book called Cherokee Bows and Arrows, so that should help).
When I'm done, what would give the best finish for my bow? Tung oil, varnish, or lacquer? Do you have any specific recommendations?
I was thinking about buying a spool of b-50 bowstring, so I might need some help when I get to the point of making my own bowstrings...
Finally, could anyone point me to some good arrows and a quiver to buy? I don't really feel like crafting my own right now, but I'd like some shopping advice. ;D
PS- Here's the bowstave I bought:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/OSAGE-ORANGE-bow-stave-staves-billits-bow-wood-turning-wood-/00/s/MTA1MlgxNjAw/$(KGrHqZ,!h4E+oKilHplBQD2dI2vWQ~~60_57.JPG)
Thanks for the help!
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My own bias is that osage is best crafted into a flatbow style rather than an ELB. Osage is dense and strong so you wind up needing a really skinny bow to make weight but the long limbs still have a lot of mass and aren't that efficient. I'd go with a 66" longbow, 1.5" wide to midlimb tapering to 1/2" nocks, 4" stiff handle and 2" fades. Maybe make the lower limb an inch shorter than the upper. I favor tung oil finish, six coats of Formby's low gloss is good for a hunting bow.
Nice looking stave, you'll make an excellent bow out of that one. When you go to lay out the bow, find any pin knots and make sure they aren't going to be right on the edge of a limb. You've got enough extra length that you can move one way or another a bit.
Kustom King or Three Rivers sells decent wood arrows and quivers at a reasonable price. I believe they both advertize in PA magazine and so are supporters of this site. theres a list of advertizers on the PA home page, with links to their websites.
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Hey, thanks for the help! I'm definitely going with a flatbow now; it makes way more sense now that you've described it. I also went ahead and got some of that Formby's low gloss.
As far as a quiver and arrows, I think I got a pretty great deal on ebay for $60 total.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VTG-50s-archery-target-11-cedar-arrows-26-w-original-leather-quiver-/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/$T2eC16NHJGoE9nuQeSy9BQFs,cl,k!~~60_3.JPG)
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Thats just one opinion, I'd see what some others have to say about this. I do see quite a few osage bows like I describe here, but people also make bendy handle bows and ELB looking styles.
Nice score on the arrows, the cheapest are running $75 plus shipping. Of course you get to pick your spine that way.
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I'd make a flat bow too. What's your draw length?Target weight? Also, my site has info. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html
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Looks like you did great on that stave, I like it plenty! I echo the advice of making the flatbow, but I have to dissent on the claim that osage isn't top choice for a longbow. I've a few osage ELB's under my belt and I kinda like 'em. But I'd still recommend the flatbow for starters.
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I'd make a flat bow too. What's your draw length?Target weight?
Well, I'm 6 feet tall (maybe just a tad less) and, if I take tom sawyer's advice, I'll be going with a 66" bow. So apparently (according to the book I have) the draw length will be between 27-28 inches? Will this work fine with the 26" arrows that I bought?
As far as weight, I was thinking maybe 50-60 pounds? (So I could hunt deer and maybe some game bird).
Thanks for the help, this is my first bow ever and I'm entirely inexperienced!
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You can't draw a 26" arrow to 27-28", because the arrow is only 26" long. It's an inch or 2 too short.
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You can't draw a 26" arrow to 27-28", because the arrow is only 26" long. It's an inch or 2 too short.
That's true, do I need to go with more like a 64" bow, do you think?
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If your 6 feet tall tall your draw length is 29". Leave the arrows full length (32") then there easier to tune.
Good choice in following these gentlemens advice Osage is a multi-design wood but makes an excellent flatbow.
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Hmm....Just going to have to sell those arrows I suppose, but obviously keep the quiver. ;D
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Your draw length is a function of your body size. Bow length has nothing to do with it. You can learn to shoot drawing less then your draw length by bending your bow arm and anchoring as far forward as you can. But, it isn't optimum, especially when you're learning. I agree with the bow design advice you've gotten. Osage is a very forgiving bow wood and the longer it is the more mistakes it will tolerate. It will make an ELB if you wish, but I also think it is better suited to a flatbow.
Good luck,
George
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Howard Hill was a shade over 6 ft tall and had a 24" draw length. If you ever see a picture of him standing with his arms at his side you'll understand. He pert' near needed to lean over to buckle his belt!
If you stretch your arms out to both sides and measure fingertip to fingertip you should be within an inch of your height. But some of us are a little off the norm...I should be just a bit under 6 ft according to that rule, but come in at 5'9". To further complicate the issue, my form only gives me 26" of draw.
All that rambling just to point out the only way to measure your draw length is to draw an arrow. Everything else is just vague generalities that may or may not work in your case.
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From everything I've read the standard way to find draw length is your wingspan (finger tip to finger tip) and divide that by 2.5. So if your wingspan is 70" your draw length should be 28". This should get you close. They are right though. The only way to really know you draw length is to draw an arrow. If you have a Dick's sporting goods or some other close place that sells bows they will find it for you for free typically. Even if you don't buy anything then I've never seen them turn anyone down.
As far as the arrows are concerned I wouldn't necessarily sell them right now. It never hurts to keep them for a little while. It will at least give you something to shoot until you can get some others made or bought. It's hard at first to get used to shooting a bow at first and so it won't hurt to draw a little short. The draw weight will be a little lower. Then you can buy more arrows or
make some and then sell them. That's just my two cents though. Good luck on your first bow!
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The only way to now your draw length is by shooting. I agree with, JW. You really should go check out my site a bit. Since you don't know your draw length for sure go 66-67 in nock to nock and 1.5 in wide. 50-60 is pretty heavy. My sense is you haven't shot trad at all. But getting the bow weight you want first try is hard you will probably come under that so that will be good. Jawge
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I have a cheapy blue FG bow I bought for my son and his friends use bow fishing on one of our camping trips, once. It hangs in my workshop. I pull it down if I'm making a bow for a friend. I grab an arrow and clip a clothes pin on it. Then I have the friend draw the bow and measure from nock to clothes to get their draw length.
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Hey guys, how do you think it's going? I'm a little bit worried about the fades, since they don't seem to be gradual enough and I may have cut too deep...I've just been carving out the sides so far...
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6653/photofko.jpg)
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5971/photo2osw.jpg)
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3032/photo1grj.jpg)
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The profile from the back looks pretty good to me. The handle section is certainly not too narrow (as I often used to make 'em), and the fadeouts are long enough to give you a gentle transition from bending to nonbending limb.
Atta boy!
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Do you think it will turn out better with a 2" fade (like it has now) or a 3" fade?
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Beware of old ebay arrows. I went through a phase of picking up old arrows to refurbish. I found so many problems with them that I realized I was wasting my time.
Once you get your bow done you will want your arrows to match your bow. With old ebay arrows you never know what you are getting as far as spine or weight goes. Arrow making goes along with bow making and bow string making and should be the next thing you look into.
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Hmm, I think I'm going to switch to 3" fades...
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I think 3" fades is just wasting wood. My fades are generally 1 1/2", sometimes up to two for a longer bow that I want to look more slender.
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Hmm, how's it looking so far? The sides still seem very rough to me, and the shape doesn't seem quite right yet. Nothing irreparable, I hope? (You can zoom in on the pic in the link to see it more closely).
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8676/photo3yso.jpg
Any advice?
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listen to Jw.go with 1 1\2fades.3"is too long.go slow with this.that is a nice looking stave,you don't want to get hasty and ruin it.
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listen to Jw.go with 1 1\2fades.3"is too long.go slow with this.that is a nice looking stave,you don't want to get hasty and ruin it.
Does it look like I messed it up in that last pic? =p
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Not really, at this point everything is a learning experience. In bowmaking there are NO MISTAKES...just some design executions that are less efficient.
For instance, if a bow breaks just outside the fadeouts on the bottom limb, that means it was designed to be shot by a VERY short person...though with only one limb it is really inefficient! *grin*
Keep at it, and post all your questions, no matter how minor they are. We are all happy to help you out.