Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: k-hat on May 17, 2012, 06:11:36 pm
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Well i'm between wait times on a several projects, and decided i need a "utility" bow in the process. I've been itching to try a heavy pyramid bow, so here's my go at it.
I found some nice hickry at the local wood store, and did my layout and such. I'm going 2 inches at the fades to 3/8" at the tips, 66" long if i remember correctly. Tried a couple of new things (for me) and figured I'd share it out. I really didn't wanna back this one, but then i saw some camo giftwrap at the store and said "hmmmmm".. I remember someone recently used camo tissue paper for a nice effect (Pat B), AND there was this little swirly i was worried about:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120513_001.jpg)
So the plan is to back with linen (from an old pair of extra comfy pants I had ;D), and then apply the camo and poly.
I got a cue from 4esttrekker on his buildalong about using a radial saw to rough out the thickness on the limbs. I don't have a radial saw, but i do have a table saw >:D Incidentally, after i did this i went back and lookd at 4est's build, and he said DO NOT use a table saw, it's a losing game. He's right if you aren't ultra careful, and maybe even if you are :o
So here's what i done. I took safety guard off of the table saw >:D and adjusted the height to a hair under 3/8". My board is 7/8" thick, so this will leave my desired 1/2" after the cut.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120514_001.jpg)
The plan is to run the belly of the board from near the tips to the fade in several passes. The purpose is to remove the bulk of the wood and set a nice uniform depth for the whole limb. NOTE: I was VERY careful near the tips, in fact, i left them alone and started the cuts about 7" in from the end. The table saw could rip those to shreds if it caught the edge, and i actually wanted to leave them a little thicker, so i did those by hand. Here's the result:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120514_003.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120514_002.jpg)
Each pass, I gently pressed the limb down on the blade and then after contact with the table i pushed it along cutting up into the fade. Ideally, i could have let the blade cut the fade in completely, but i stopped a little short cuz i was short on time, so finished that out by hand as well. Done right, it would cut a perfect fade with the 10" blade.
Here's how the limb looks after a little drawknifing and scraping.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120515_001.jpg)
Its baby smooth and perfectly flat and level, I checked with my calipers ;)
I started this on Saturday, but only working in short sessions. So far I've got about 2-3 hours total on this one, and she's ready to tiller after i cut the nocks in tomorrow morning. Tiller will start on Saturday if all goes well ;D
Here's a pic of the tip roughed out with the linen applied:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120517_001.jpg)
More to come! Love to hear your thoughts.
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k-hat i use a tablesaw to ruff out my pyramids, but i set the fence at, say 1/2" put the back to the fence and cut to the start of the fade, i then finish the cuts with my bandsaw, Bub
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yeah, but don't have a bandsaw, and i have a hard time getting my table saw to make a straight cut like your saying. Plus, i like the idea of the blade cutting the fade for me and finishing the limb by hand. Not saying this is the best way, but wanted to give it a try.
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Neat job. I've been having to do my cut out with the table saw, but haven't had the guts to use it to thin out the limbs. That looks like it turned out pretty good and it looks like it saved a lot of time. I'm anxious to see final product.
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yeah it was MUCH quicker than thinning by hand, and more uniform. I like finishing it by hand, but this helped me to do that with much more precision. It took about 15 minutes on the table saw. With practice i can get it down to about 5 minutes with fades as well (once i figure out a way to make that precise, I'm thinking a perpendicular mark across the back that would line up with a mark on the table of the saw to tell me when i'm deep enough).
One thing I did learn is be careful removing the remainders. Had one lift all the way into the handle and leave a little gouge where the riser was gonna glue on. I filled it with a mixture of epoxy and sawdust when i glued the riser on so there wouldn't be a gap. It's stiff handled so it shouldn't present a problem other than cosmetic.
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Grrrr, having trouble with the handle. Why do handles hate me lately? Anywho, heres the dealio:
It's a hickory board, 2" at the fades to 3/8" at tips. The limbs are .5" thick, the fades taper up to 15/16" in the handle(upon which a riser is glued), and (as you transition from limb into handle)the thickness begins to increase before the width starts to decrease (this is the correct way as i understand it).
Yet, as i was bracing, i noticed it starts to gap at the glue line on the riser when flexed. She's at 35# at 16" right now (shooting for 60ish). The handle shouldn't be flexing at all given the thickness it has, I wouldn't think, so i think the glue is not even the issue.
My measurements tell me the wood shouldn't be flexing in the grip, and I've done several similar handles where this was not a problem, but the wood will do what it does. :-\
Advice, input, solutions are certainly welcome!!!!
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Well, finally got a stack glued up and attached for the riser to hopefully keep the belly/riser from separating, so far so good! Pulling 35#@18" right now.
Here's the handle area w/o riser, the tapers and fades still need some finessing of course:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120521_001.jpg)
Here's the new riser attached. Strips of hickory and mahogany about 1/8" thick each:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120525_001.jpg)
And here she is at 18". From a 5.5" brace, 1/8" + tiller.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120525_002.jpg)
Mr. Gizmo says she's pretty close, but i think she needs to loosen up some in the mids, but that may just be my eyes used to elliptical tiller. I may scrape a little more midlimb anyway to take some stress off the near handle.
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I'd be firing arrows Kevin. Maybe loosen the near handle area a tad if anything. Pyramids need that.
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Cool, thanks Chris. I've been shooting at a short draw cuz that's what i do. I'll get'r tweaked today and finish in the hand whilst shooting ;D This has been a fun build in spite of the issues, and i'm looking forward to trying my hand at a pyramid from one of my elm staves.
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Aargh. Anyone ever have this happen before? My first. Got her tillered and drawing 50#@24", on target for my 60#@29, and took one last shot before i let her rest today . . . and upon loosing I heard wood splinter and fly across the garage. Heart sank cause I thought it was the death of the bow, but it was "only" this:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120525_002_001.jpg)
I'm pretty sure this is mahogany, and I'm not sure why it split through like this. Luckily what was left held and i was able to unstring before further damage was done.
So, is it the mahogany, or a fluke of the piece i used? Perhaps it was the shape of the groove on the back of the nock?
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mahogany is a brittle wood, but i dont know why that happened while shootin', Bub
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I thought that it was, which is why i got it only for accent material. I thought i'd seen some on nocks before, but who knows. the top is holding up fine. I may do a temp nock to finish tiller and shoot in, then redo the nock, which will be a bit of a pain.
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I have had that happen before. Now I make sure that the grain orientation on my overlays is alway facing the tip itself and that the rings are set in a quarter sawn fashion. This way string pressure will always run in a way that won't cause the overlay to want to split.
Just my $.02
Mark
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I would switch to mesquite for your overlays. It'll give a similar look and I've never had one fail. Best of all it grows everywhere down here so I never have to buy it. :)
I'm glad the bow wasn't damaged.
George
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Thanks Mark, I was tossing that around in the back of my mind, glad you confirmed my suspicions :)
George: Duh, why hadn't i thought of that!? That would be a good match. I'll give another try with the mahogany as Mark suggests (the riser already has mahogany accents), but all future accents will be mesquite when i want that color contrast ;D
appreciate y'alls participation in my consternation ;)
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Finally got'r done. She was "quick" getting from raw lumber to tiller, much less than quick on finishing out. Here's the details:
She's hickory with a thin linen backing (due to a worrisome swirl, though she coulda done without), and a camo backing over that for cosmetics (never like the way my linen looks). Heartwood hickory tip overlays, hick and mahogany lam stack for the handle. "Natural" stain with poly and wax over that. Here's some pics.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/100_1427.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/100_1433.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/100_1437.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/100_1429.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/100_1431.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/100_1432.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/100_1439.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/100E1449.jpg)
(excuse the ugly model;)
55ish# at 28+", 68"ttt
Hope y'all like.
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Great looking bow and great tiller!
George
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Very nice, I particularly enjoyed the exploding nock! >:D
Good roughing out on the table saw tip. I have a chunk of Ash left from making my computer desk, so I might try a board bow sometime and use that method as I've never done one.
Del
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Thanks George and Del, heavy compliments coming from you guys ;D
Tiller was kinda weird. It's about 1/16-1/8" NEGATIVE at brace, but evens out at full draw (that is, the bottom is stiffer on the tree at full draw, which evens out in the hand). Never had that happen.
Careful with the table saw dude. She's a blessing and a curse! I've used it once since this one, and marked lines so it would cut in an even fade. Worked beautifully till i got careless and went too far on one cut :-[
Glad YOU enjoyed the exploding nock ;)
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Nice job on that hickory, for sure! The camo is cool!! 8)
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Nice bow, looks very even and balanced. Does not look like it was made quickly at all.
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The overlay failure was due to wrong grain orientation; year ring should run lengthwise perpendicular to the bow's back.
Nice bow, tiller looks good!
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Great looking hunting bow.
Isn't it tough to see grain in the central american hardwoods? I thought most of them weren't ring porous.
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Thanks Joducus and Lesken, appreciate the kind words. Thanks medicine, found that out the hard way on the overlay. I did reapply the same wood in the right orientation, still wouldn't hold together, so i used hickory as dark as i had to give a little contrast. Note to self for future: mahogany good for handle lams, bad for nocks ::)
Thanks Tom, hope she gets a deer or two ... she's heavy enuf! Can't answer your question though as i'm still learning the woods myself!
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One correction i need to clear up. I did try the camo paper but didn't like the result. Since the coloration is only on the surface of the paper, you get a nice white outline around the edge when you trim. Not good for the woods!! Tried many fixes and finally just rippd it off and found some camo fabric from wally world. Worked better but then you have to deal with the tendency of cotton to fray at the edge. I soaked the edge with super glue before final trim, and again before several coats of poly. I think it'll hold out as long as it's treated well, but we'll see!!