Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: half eye on April 04, 2012, 10:48:26 am
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Hey Fellas, Thought I would do up a sample type entry for a tech thread on bows. The idea is that eventually a person who has access to certain woods etc. could run through this thread and find the info he/she needs to get started on any type of bow that was listed.
This thread will not post comments, or anything that is not a direct post about a particular type bow and the technical aspects of it. The one I'm posting is a sample of what I think....but please if I missed anything or the format is wrong etc etc please advise so we can come up with a useable form that will be helpful.
I'm gonna leave it to the Admin's and Mod's to decide where it should be located at on the site, and they will delete any "comments" that are posted on this particular thread. I hope this will be an "info only" area. Any comments or questions about any entry can be PM'd to the author of the entry.
The entry's can be made by any member, on any bow type they make and KNOW to be a good design and produces a bow with good performance.
PLEASE: let me know about this sample; if ya think it's OK, needs work or changes, and most of all if you find it would be helpful.....cause if it ain't gonna be a help we don't need it on here!!!!!
rich
SAMPLE ENTRY;
American Elm (Ulmus americana ) Edge grain "board" / selfbow
59" ntn / Mollegabet [53# @ 28" made for a 26" draw]
Maker: half-eye
Primary purpose: Hunting
Dimensions: included on attached photos
Braced profile: attached photo
Full draw profile: attached photo ( there are 2 shots one "high-hand" and one at normal position)
Builders comments: This bows overall length is short for the style. The working limbs are parallel sided but DO have a belly taper. The bow is minimal in dimension. The bow preforms well with a variety of arrow weights and spines, has very little to no hand-shock.
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Meant to include the force/draw chart and forgot....sorry
14# @ 11inches
18# @ 13"
22# @ 15"
26# @ 17"
30# @ 19"
35# @ 21"
40# @ 23"
44 1/2# @ 25"
50# @ 27"
53# @ 28"
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Great post.
I think you need to identify the long line on pic 1, is it the geometric centre of the bow?
E.G, I think the centreline neds identiying so we know if the whole thing is symetrical.
S'pose I should draw up a 'medium weight' ELB sometime soon.
Del
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Good idea.
Del, my rudimentary math skills tell me 29.5 is half of 59. ;)
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The dimension is listed there on the bottom portion of the photo, not at the top half with the others. All the measurements needed are there.
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Thanks Lee,good point
Del, very good point as one feature of the bow is exactly that...symetrical grip and limbs....thanks
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I think this is a wonderful idea/project Rich.
My thoughts on bows with sinew would only be helpful/objective if we had a true measurement of the sinew applied in terms of ounces, as a number of the sinew bows I've seen simply state "2 or 3 layers of sinew." One man's layer can be significantly different than another's.
I look forward to seeing this thread grow with contributions from our best bowyers. Thanks~
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Hey Lee,
When ya gonna post that baby, that's what will be great about this....@poster will be giving info on his specialized area and include the necessary info to help out anybody wanting to try one. I dont know squat about sinewed bows, or horn bows, or English long bows but the guys who do......well they can cover the bases that they know for a fact somebody would need to know, just like your comment about the sinew.
rich
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Would this be helpful, Rich?
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Yes it would Matt, ya show-off. >:D
rich
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I really like the layout info. Very helpful especially for the new folks. Ron
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Good idea.
Del, my rudimentary math skills tell me 29.5 is half of 59. ;)
D'oh... I've been sat here 5 minutes an' I still can't think of a smart reply :(
But enginering drawing practice does usually call for a centreline. But heck that doesn't cut it, it just isn't funny... :-[
Del
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This would be great. I often find the only thing keeping me from starting a project is that I don't know enough to formulate a plan of action. This will be be very helpful for giving us newbies a bit of direction.
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Getting started is half the battle for me. This thread would be a huge help for me. Less scratching, and more scraping. Good idea half eye!
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This is a great idea and template rich. Even though every piece of wood is different and all that, a bow pedigree could only add information to the global bowyering pool of knowledge and can for sure be a help to novices and not so novices alike. Great initiative!
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Guys, when we get Rich's Tech Bow Thread up and running we would appreciate no comments directly on the thread. I think it would be a good idea to post the link to the bow as it was posted on PA so folks could ask their questions directly to the maker without cluttering up Tech Bow Thread.
This Tech Bow Thread should be another great resourse for the PA members but it is up to the members to make it so. ;)
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Like Pat said, it is not for comments and the posting member can not only list his name but also any direct link to the same bow.....any questions or comments could be put into a PM sent to the posting builder, or as a question/comment on the actual individual bow posting.
The whole idea here is to have a library of technical bow data, that anyone can access without having to read a bunch of comments....so we can get right to the "meat" on this sandwich. I'll be starting this thing tomorrow with this bow and a small NA "D" bow. I'm thinking to title the thread "Tech Bow Data Library" that way everybody knows what it is, what to put into it, and what to keep out of it. hope that sounds OK but if not please post a comment here before too late tomorrow.
I hope a lot of PA bow builders will take the time to post some bows also.
rich
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I will try to get one of mine up tomorrow on the official thread...
Jon
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i assume theres no good way to organize all the different categories like recurves,elbs,flatbows,sinewed,bendys,etc...and the list goes on. the only downside is if the thread gets really big it could be a big unorganized kinda mess and hard to search for a certain style of bow. would a moderator be able to move someones listing and keep all the styles on the same page,or in order?
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That's a good point...but I thought if we cataloge it I'm thinkin that it would be by wood type.....sounds nuts but I believe most guys would have a certain kind of wood and want to know "what can I make from this". But you may be very well right that the correct way would be to organize by type.
To me it seems like a fella with a osage stave says hey what do I want to make, well if we have umpteen osage entries he could sort though those and pick what he liked and would have the info there just to get him started. I think it will have to "evolve" as a resource at least I hope so.
rich
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I like the grouping by wood, not style of bow.........looking forward to this.
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A forum/message board such as Primitive Archer is not well suited for such a library. It just isn't able to create the kind of indexation and lay-out you would be after. An external website would be much better suited, in my opinion. As a matter of fact, another member of this messageboard, Jorad, has made a start for such a library of technical bow data.
Take a look HERE! (http://library.orionbows.nl/index.html)
It's just a start, but why don't we all contribute to this website, using the contact form?
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For it to be organized right on this forum a whole new sub forum would have to be started. And then if you cataloged by wood type you would have to start a thread for each known bow wood type,a lentghy list indeed. And then whatever bow you post tech data for you would put it in the appropriate wood type thread. Yikes!!!!
Id really like to contribute,but only if we can get some organization to it. If you did it by style it would keep the number of threads down,or if you did do it by wood then do the wood type threads in alphabetical order.
Just my thoughts n two cents
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Honestly after thinking about it more I think that flooding the forum with a whole bunch of how to's on the basic bow types isn't a good idea. We don't need more of them. It gets a bit like the fist issue of PA having a how to make your first wooden bow and repeating that every few issues.
The basics are easily accessible with a little searching and a pile of easily accessible stuff just creates more confusion due to each bowyers individual take on a subject.
Better to just have build-alongs of more advanced bow types as people wish to add them.
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I respectively disagree PatM. I feel like a seperate board in the index would be a very feasible option and that an archieve of information like this would not be a hinderance in any way and would not be "flooding the forum" . I think this will be a great resource but I do agree that organization is needed. I would prefer to organize by wood type but only use some of the most common woods.
Many are similar in properties.
Jon
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I think this is a great idea. It got me thinking about similar idea, but I will post that in another thread so not to clutter this up.
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I agree with Jon. A build-a-long is a very useful thing but it's step by step nature does not take into account the
individual building methods of the reader. You basically follow the steps as laid out by someone else. The Tech
Thread (if I understand it correctly) tells you where someone else went but not how to get there.
Example; About a year ago Rich sent me a photo with dimensions laid out of his Molly design almost exactly like
the one posted in this thread. I used different wood but allowed for the difference with his advice and was able to build
three successful bows even though I am sure we used different methods of building. The initial layout had been
proven long before I got started. All I had to do was build it.
Of course the shaping, tillering and finishing was the same as for any bow you build. Still, the layout helps a bunch.
I have seen many requests for dimensions especially by newbies and while we all know you can't build a bow like
that it still is a valuable tool. Especially for beginners like me.
Lane
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I would also include limb tip position before and after tillering, such as started with 1" reflex finished with 1" string follow. Total 2" set.
Also mass weight of bow in oz: example 18 oz mass weight
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Thanks Badger, two very good points. That would indeed be usefull for a complete description.
rich
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How about how far it shoots a arrow to give some comparison of performance? I forget how you would standardize that for different bows.
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I wondered if the How- to and Build Along section used to be for reference only. Then I discovered the archive section. Looks like our moderators have plenty to do and filling the archive is tough to do on top of what they already have on their plate. Nothing but sympathy from me. Managing a web site must be a bear.
I like this concept Rich. Hopefully we can find a great place for it.
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The bows you post can have a build along, but do it in another thread then post a link to it on the Tech Bow Thread.
DarkSoul, if you must know the truth, I like this idea better. I can just roll down the page and see all of the photos. When I see a photo I like I can stop and read the stats. If the other site was done right so I could see all of the photos of bows by wood type or style it would be nice, but right now there are too many links to navigate and I cant see the bows side by side so what is the point. They could be put into a database and pulled in by category but that makes it more difficult to pt the info in.
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I love the idea. I have found information like this very helpful when trying to make a particular design. In fact any time I attempt a new design I usually look around for demensions somewhere first. So for me organized by design would be preferred.
I know it is generally a good idea to let the wood "tell you what kind of bow it wants to be" but I tend to be more drawn to wanting to make a certian design and then search for good wood choices and try it. That's just me. I will admit there are plenty of times I want to try a new type of wood and see what I can do with it too but more often I choose design first then wood...
I'm not sure how my comments stack up. I've been building bows for just over a year and only have about 15-20 under my belt. I still feel like a beginner...advanced beginner maybe? I fear I would be "taking" more than "contributing" since I'm not confident in doing build alongs and so forth given my experience.
I have so much more to learn. So from a beginners perspective I think this idea would be awesome....