Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PAHunter on March 05, 2012, 02:24:12 am
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I'm working on finishing up the elm that Blackhawk has been helping me with. It's been fighting with me a bit in the home stretch but hopefully I'll come out on top. There are some knots in the upper limb which make it a bit still toward the top and give it a natural bend 1/2 down so the looks are a bit deceiving. It's at 50# at 26 and my target draw length is 28. What do you think of the tiller? Should I leave well enough alone and get to sanding or are there changes that could effect cast? All input is greatly appreciated!
(https://jyd1qq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p-MttZSU1fmODza-w7BHsaMqYF8EMlzNYnqmw-8rP3psDE4sjWzJ9-auJm_3m82ZGe1bz3r2mL3dVvFfCJwTBWl0EBaxhACYW/Elm%20bow%20right%20side%20up.JPG?psid=1)
The Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0K1hAyYbTk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0K1hAyYbTk)
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Can't see your pictures :(
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Looks good PA. The tiller looks best to me after you flipped it (the second group of pulls). looks like more positive tiller that way. Other than that, nice bend.
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The upper limb (first set of pulls) needs more bend in the fade.
I like the bend in the other limb though :) Just minor corrections from here on. Scrape that fade a bit, and then increase your braceheight to a full 6" fistmelee. Don't stick with that long string too long.
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Watched the video, best to get it braced a little higher but there doesnt look like any problems there :)
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I think it is looking very good. I do agree with Darksoul in that my first impression was the upper limb needs some more bend as compared to the lower limb (first pulls) and it would appear to be near the fade where the bend could be increased to even it out. Very minor stuff. Nice work!
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Thanks much guys!! Your feedback is extremely useful! The stiffness in the upper limb fade is noticable. On one hand there is a knot a few inches down the limb but on the other more than one of my bow's have been stiff there. Perhaps I'll do a little scraping on the upper limb and then even out to a good positive tiller and call the tiller done. Now don't overdo it Rob... :)
At any rate I'll work on the handle first. Now I gotta do that darn work thing. grr... >:( ;)
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Still working on finishing up the tiller on my elm. Boy it’s easier when Blackhawk is there! Haha Tryin hard to make you proud buddy! ;)
Ok I tillered down the top limb more and think there is more bend in the fade. It’s now at 47#@26. My target is 28’’ draw. I think I’m going to call the tiller good and move on to the handle and sanding. I’ve rushed my handles in the past so I’m gonna try to take my time and enjoy the process. Lemme know what ya thing of the tiller!!
(http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small79608577.JPG)
(http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small62963659.JPG)
The video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px-drA447yk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px-drA447yk)
Thanks!!
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Hmm, still lookin like the top can use a few more full scrapes... I'll sleep on it. BTW the top limb is 3/4 inch shorter due to a overlay accident (first time). :)
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Given how it looks when you pull it flipped over (and the fact the top limb is shorter), you might just want to flip the bow and call it a day. Tiller looks pretty good when you pull the top limb as the bottom. Maybe a couple of scrapes near the fade, but it's not at all bad.
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@NruJaC believe me I've almost done that 50 times. But I'm on a mission from God to make that limb work as the top. thanks!
Ok took a break from tillering and worked on the handle. I'll smooth it out tomorrow but I'm happy with the start. Handle suggestions are very welcome as well!
(http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small68877890.JPG)
(http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small30344729.JPG)
Thanks!
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Too bad I coudlnt get to my phone or a comp till this morn, I would've just flipped it around rob. Too late now tho as you've cut the handle in....we could heat treat it again n move things over a tad if need be. How much of the inch of reflex we induced have you lost?
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It looks good !
Just sand it and shoot it awhile ,I think you will enjoy it enough to finish it up where its at !
Guy
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@Blackhawk np brother. I was keeping a watchful eye for your comments. I thought maybe this was some sort of test. You can be sneaky like that. Like Mr. Miyagi's training methods. ;D Ya I knew it would have been easiest to flip it but I remembered us discussing making that the top limb early because of the knots and decided it was a challenge to stick to plan. I'm trying to take my time and really learn each step. I got a bit careless wiht the overlays and violated the back. But other than that i've been in no hurry. let me ask a really noob question that I think I know but have been embarased to ask... The fades are the area of the limb closest to the handle right? About how many inches are they? For example, when people suggest to allow for more beinding in the fades. :P
I just can't believe how crazy stiff the top limb was to the bottom. I've taken about 11# off the top limb alone and it's still a bit more stiff. How many #s do you think heating it agian may add? I didn't realize doing it twice was an option.
@Guy thanks man! I'm thinking more along those lines every minute. :) I'd be more patient if shooting wasn't so much fun!! ;D
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You could also shorten the bottom limbcto the same as top limb. That would stiffen up the bottom limb.
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@turtle: yep that is very tempting...
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I do believe we laid it out with some wiggle room in all dimensions in case of operator error. ;) yeah..if you wanna shorten the bottom limb you can,and we can heat her up again,and I do believe we wood have some room to flip the tips maybe....I know it might go against the grain from what I preach,and a bow should be made with purposeful intent and goals. But in your stage its ok to play and experiment,and tweak some things to better it than what it is by a teeny bit. But it also ups the ante of messing it up altogether as well. Bowmaking is all about trade offs alot of the time,and sometimes you have to divert from the original plan. You just have to figure out which way is the best decision for YOU and you alone,because there's usually several ways of doing things to get from A to B.
Yes the fades are where your limbs are widest coming out of the handle.
Yes I am sneaky...and yes I sent you off with a stave (real bow wood,boards don't count imho)that was ready to tiller and wanted you to try and figure things out on your own,cus that is how you learn as well. Sooooo...lessons learned??...id say yes ;)
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Ok, based on everyone's feedback, I decided it was a good idea to shorten the lower limb an inch and take some scrapes to the upper fade and tip. After it's all said and done I got 2# more on draw and a +1/2'' positive tiller up from +2/16. I think the tiller looks a bit better and should improve once I take a few scrapes from the lower limb to get a +4/16 positive tiller.
Thanks for your advice; It's appreciated more than you know!! Sincerely, Rob
(http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small68776804.JPG)
The video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD-oQdPoS-Q
Handle feels good BTW, woot! :laugh:
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Idk bout the tiller,Ill leave that to the pros,but your over drawing the #%@& out of that stick Bro!! Ron
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Did a bit more tilering. 12 inches from center there is a 1/2'' positive tiller when braced 5 1/2 inches. However the bow shoots great and very accurately and the tiller at 18 inches draw is barely positive. I'm wondering if it's partly due to the inch deflex in the upper limb. I'm very hesitant to take weight off becuase now it may come in around 50#s, which I'd be very happy with. I'm gonna start sanding and making it more purdy. Let me know your thoughts on whether there overly positive brace height tiller is an issue. Thanks!!
(http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small24283808.JPG)
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Holy cow drawlin that line on the picture really helps! Gott remember to do that up front next time. :laugh:
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@Dron perhaps some but I don't think it's quite as bad as it looks. I'm squating and my shoulder is very compressed as I hold the bow low. I'm normally much more extended when shooting and the bow is higher. But I'll take that into consideration next time. thanks.
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If it shoots well, then sand it and finish it. The tiller looks just fine, and it looks like you're giving due consideration to all the necessary things.
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tiller looks better,and acceptable for starting to shoot it in....tillering your top limb 1/4" positive at brace is just a good guideline and starting point,and usually gives good results at full draw....BUT...its all about what it looks like at full draw,and how it feels in your hand when drawn and shot. sometimes bows like to be dead zero even,some like a 1/16,or 1/8,1/4, 3/8" positive tiller...etc. ;)
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Thanks much guys!! Just finished the 220 sanding and need to buy some finer paper to finish. thanks for walking me through the finish line! I'll post pics once it's all purdy. ;-)
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looks like you got it bending nice now PA!!