Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Ian. on March 03, 2012, 07:05:44 pm
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Ian
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Very nice tiller. Very handsome.
How about a close up of a nock, they look nice and compact.
Del
(What's it doing on my lawn? ;) )
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Nice. What's the length on this one? You say the low string angle will help with distance. Although it will slightly increase energy storage, the tiller also results in more moving mass in the outer limbs which would cancel out that stored energy. This is assuming your tips aren't narrowed to reduce mass. Dimensions?
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That is a sweetly bending beast. very nice
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Thanks Del, more pictures to follow.
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I wouldn't suggest whip tillering at these higher weights but I believe an almost circular tiller would be better in terms of moving mass. Tips seem small enough but I'd need to know how it tapers to make an accurate judgement of tiller vs front view profile. In terms of mass you have to think about where the mass is and not just the total mass. A bow could be heavier than projected but have most of the mass in the inner limb where it doesn't move as much.
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I wouldn't suggest whip tillering at these higher weights but I believe an almost circular tiller would be better in terms of moving mass. Tips seem small enough but I'd need to know how it tapers to make an accurate judgement of tiller vs front view profile. In terms of mass you have to think about where the mass is and not just the total mass. A bow could be heavier than projected but have most of the mass in the inner limb where it doesn't move as much.
Agreed.
Nice bow.
Personally I think there is a lot to be said for an ever so slight elliptical tiller on these sort of bows, but I do mean ever so slight. I also like the idea of making the outer limbs a SHADE, (like 0.5mm) thicker and reducing the width correspondingly. Or gluing in a little (extra) reflex at the tip area so that the tips appear a shade stiff to get the string angle benfits without needing as much extra weight there.
Have you got any performance figures. Chrono or distance?
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Elliptical is the way to go. However I tend to find with these weights having the tips moving too much results in follow, and this bow is about 40lb over weight to be regarded as a performance bow. There are no results for this bow as yet, someone may be able to shoot it, but it wont be me any time soon.
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Very nicely done, Ian! Besides hickory, what other wood would you have considered using as a backing material?
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Thanks, Hickory is by far my favourite, I have used Bamboo but cant get it in good enough lengths. Other than those two I sometimes use single growth ring Elm and Ash, both of which can handle the weight.
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Very Impressive bow... I am in awe at the weights and tiller. Very nice.
Jon
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Ian - try here for your bamboo. They have some interesting species and the moso is v.good quality. http://ukbamboosupplies.com/
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That's excellent thanks Mike i've bookmarked it, though I think they (PA) are cracking down on external links being posted.
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Great work Ian! I think that keeping string angle low with stiffer limbs and more working handle is not very best idea. I agree with elipltical tiller theory, seems to be more adequate for these high draw weights. Great work...
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Thanks, Hickory is by far my favourite, I have used Bamboo but cant get it in good enough lengths. Other than those two I sometimes use single growth ring Elm and Ash, both of which can handle the weight.
What are your thoughts on maple backing? Do you think it would it be strong enough?
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This bow has loads of early draw weight, I will make another Ipe bow whip tillered to compare, but I think for the arrows that it will shoot its about right.
And loads of late draw weight ;)
That's a sweet bow Ian and I know you can fully shoot it too! I agree that a few chased down growthrings of ash is easily capable of holding this weight of bow together and it's so readily available. I send it though the thicknesser, chased ring down to 7mm. I'd trust it as much as 1/4 sawn hickory but I don't know about maple personally.
Have you used parallel tapers in the core? I'm not sure tapering does much at these weights.
Jeremy
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Thanks Jeremy, we shall see soon I guess. I bought a planer/thicknesser only recently its been a revelation, though I never go for fancy combinations. The core of this one is a parallel 9mm, I make the core as big as possible allowing for thin tips.
adb - I do think maple with handle the tension fine, I have used if before on bows up to 110lb and the quality I used wasnt that good. With good grained 1/4 sawn wood or again single growth ring it will have no trouble. Something I tend to do on a back, and I don't know if you do too, is take the edge off at an angle where you can just see the core wood on the edges; I will see if I can get a picture. Like the typical MR shape it puts more pressure on the back and generally makes a quicker/safer bow.
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Just an update on this bow Standard arrow 266 yards, Livery 254 yards. Pretty happy with these distances though I think I will go for a lighter bow next time.
http://www.englishwarbowsociety.com/DonningtonFlightResults2012_EN.html
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Impressive.
Some interesting results there, I'd like to see that 140# @ 32" Hazel bow!
Del
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There were some very good Meane bows there, Joe's Plum bow was very special. Are you able to make it to Batsford Del?
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It's a bit out of the way for me, but it would be nice to get over that way.
Maybe I could persuade Mrs Cat that we need a mini break and a nice B&B stop over and oooh look I seem to have stumbled upon some archery in progress ;) O:)
Del
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Ian when is the Batsford shoot on? I would be interested in coming down. Do you have to be a member of the EWBS?
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That's a shame Del would be good to see you there. Could always send Mrs Cat on a spar weekend somewhere.
mikeeswick - This year because of the jubilee it will be from the 1st to the 4th of June, (its normally the last weekend in May) Its run by the 'European Traditional Archery Society or ETAS' so you don't have to be an EWBS member to come and shoot, but the flight is EWBS run so if you want your distance to count you will need to be a member. You wouldn't have to pay the full membership fee for that day only an insurance contribution. I will find out for you if you like.
I don't think I'm allowed to post link to other sites so if you google 'ETAS archery' you will find the page.
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I do not want to have a new topic, so I will write here because the bow is with very similar sizes. I still do not brace, because I uses Dacron and it very difficult for me. Now I must look for FF, which should help a bit.
this is a Bamboo / Iroko / Ipe - 76 "long, 33х27mm in center and 13x13 in limbs.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/v2trw2.jpg)
P.S. - Ian, your bow straight stops my breath.
cheers - George
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Hi George
Very nice so far, and you are in safe company with the combination of wood you have gone for, the unofficial world record is currently held with a bow of the same materials. If I remember the shot was about 430+ yards. And you are right to go with FF, if it helps you to know I make a 22 strand FF string to brace my bow for the first time. What weight do you want the bow to be in the end, I would imagine with your bow and the shape as nice as it is 150lb is on the cards.
I am making more of this sort of bow at the minute, I ended up taking this bow down to about 140lb, if I had made it that weight to begin with it would have performed better.
Cheers
Ian
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hi ian, 140lb!! that's a practice bow for ya dude lol :P,,,,awesome job though looks sweet bro
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Thank you!
In my opinion, 130-140 lb will be fine. It was my first bow jumped more than a 125.
String from D75 would be a practical to produce??
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@George.
You could try fishing-line...I use fire-line, as itīs made of dynema, it wonīt stretch and as far as I know itīs the same material as FF-strings. kost less as well;-) Only "problem" with it is that itīs braded witch tend to make it "slipery".
Best of luck and a very fine looking bow you have there.
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Bodkinbert - Thanks, more on the way soon.
George - I knew a guy that used D75 for all his heavy bows, I would think its fine. The first brace of these monsters is the real test though.
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Hi,
here I go .. - 8 " braced. This is the most problematic bow that I make!
(http://i44.tinypic.com/24602zq.jpg)
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Looking nice, you could brace it properly now. Those tiled floors are surprisingly useful to the bow maker.
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Yes, definitely get it braced, and get rid of that overly long string. If you continue with a tillering string that long, you will be unpleasantly surprised later. It is looking good. With heavy bows, FF is the way to go.
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So, I came here. I had a problem with one horn and bow shortened by 4cm. Now it is 74 ".
I can not fully drawn yet - more than 22" was not pulled!
Bow pulled 60 # for 15 "- that would be good to lighten slightly in the middle?
Sorry for my bad English :)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/ncxled.jpg)
Ж.
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That is looking real nice, if it was me I wouldn't take anything off it, remember bows of this weight do lose a little with tillering. If you do however decide to take some wood off, take it from the entire limb.
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I still fear to pulled it for full draw - this is 20 "
I will measure how much pull the bow of 20" and then decide whether to remove more wood.
Thanks for the help - this is the first bow over 125 #
(http://i45.tinypic.com/4n9qf.jpg)
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Really first bow over 125, welcome to the club.
You seem to be doing a good job anyway but if you don't mind there are some things to consider when making heavy bows. Try not to hold them at full draw at all, I appreciate though for taking a picture you need to do this. Tiller them with a pulley and not on a grooved board, for them same reason with the amount of pressure the wood is under holding it drawn will cause set. When you tiller them they will keep wanting to bend in the middle, you need to keep taking wood off the mid limb and tips to keep that circular tiller. I didn't do this with my bow as I wanted to see what I could get from it. If you find the bow doesn't increase in weight or is taking set then its a sign you are asking too much of the wood, and its a good time to take some wood off. Tillering these bows is about getting to your draw length as soon as possible while doing as little damage to the wood as possible.
Sorry if you already know all this.
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I see a weak spot just starting on the right hand limb in the last third. Hard to tell but it's looking like it wants to bend a little too much. Only a little but with this weight of bow your tiller MUST be perfect before pulling further!
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now that you mention it i see it too
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Mike, there is just a segment of bamboo. Perhaps this makes an optical illusion. I do not notice. I'll look more closely there!
Bow is 74 ", it bothers me a lot about weight. But thanks for the comment though. Hope to keep for 30 " >:D
(http://s18.postimage.org/6s6bazmwp/4n9qf.jpg)
PS - Mike, I'll see you this year in Bulgaria?
George
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Sorry about that I used Tiller tool, but at this stage no other option.
100# for 23" - I do no have a measurement for 30-32 ". Deliberately bow is a little hard in the middle. I want to limbs be are faster, but now she did a set about 1"
29" draw
(http://i48.tinypic.com/ydzsm.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/vi1yts.jpg)
George
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Hi George,
You don't really want to be holding the bow drawn like that, you can get away with no follow. Coming alone nice though.
Ian
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Hi George,
You don't really want to be holding the bow drawn like that, you can get away with no follow. Coming alone nice though.
Ian
Hi Ian!
This was the last - I think it will pull easy now 31 ". Now finishing work.
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So..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR8egK-z2k&feature=plcp
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Excellent result, what sort of distance do you think its getting?
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Excellent result, what sort of distance do you think its getting?
I do not know, but maybe around 240-260 yards. this is a mountain meadow with many thorns - is not measured accurately.
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Google earth is good for measuring distances if there are two landmarks you can shoot between.
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Google earth is good for measuring distances
Yes - this is about 270-280 yards ;)
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2vsnb7t.jpg)
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With respect I would be surprises if you were hitting 270, in time no problem but at the angle you were shooting I would think the distance would be more 220 off that bow, it does sound fast though.
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What is the proper angle for shooting?
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45 degrees, which is much higher than it feels when you are shooting. Ask your friend to stand near you with a 45 degree angle and tell you to go higher or lower.
And its worth trying to hold your bow hand pretty still and not making any large movements when you release, just to let the arrow have a nice clean path.
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I agree with Ian. When I first started shooting warbows, I was holding the bow well below 45 degrees. It seemed ridiculously high, but 45 degrees is optimal. Once you get used to it, it does feel normal. You will get another 20-30 yards with optimal initial trajectory angle.
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We haven't seen a bow from you for a while Adam, anything on the horizon.
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You know what... I've made a bunch of bows lately, but no heavy stuff. I finally got around to making a nice bow for my wife, a little yew recurve, and a couple of others. I just haven't gotten off my lazy arse and posted any pics yet! Maybe I can get motivated to do that soon!
I do have a tri-lam glue-up I just started tillering last week. It's maple, purpleheart, and osage, and if I don't get 100# out of it, I'm going to be choked. I'll keep you posted on progress.
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Excellent, look forward to seeing it.
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Sounds to me like the English would be jellous of your bow :laugh:
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137# - 30" draw :D
(http://i48.tinypic.com/x9c12.jpg)
and the result of accurate shooting in tree in front of me ya....
(http://i46.tinypic.com/8y7tyq.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/1zq6nx1.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOBv3QF046U
G.
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Nice bow, great tiller, and pretty good arrow penetration! ;)