Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: toomanyknots on February 12, 2012, 04:47:02 pm
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Well for starters, I got a messed up tiller on this one, after sanding to 220, so depressingly I am thinking I have to go and adjust a little bit, which sux, it is a little whippy for starters with little bend inner limb, and the top limb specifically has a potential hinge. It is a little annoying. I had to leave the top upper midlimb stiff to counter act a deflex in the stave there, and now that spot is too stiff. It is weighting around 50# probably right now. Still has good string tension. I think I might make some new tip flipping jigs and try to flip some set out of the tips, which already has about 2 1/2" set. The bow is 70 3/8" nock to nock. Here's some pics. Also, you can see how the bow works (in all the wrong spots, >:D) in the video link...
The upper limb on the right, lower limb on the left:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/hackberry%20longbow/Snapshot22-12-20121-26PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/hackberry%20longbow/Snapshot22-12-20121-59PM.png)
Left some inner bark-ish brown stuff, (I think it is called "cambium"?) on the back:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/hackberry%20longbow/Snapshot12-12-20121-59PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/hackberry%20longbow/Snapshot12-12-20121-55PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/hackberry%20longbow/Snapshot12-12-20121-56PM.png)
Upper limb is where it is bending too much near the tip. Here's the link to the video of me drawing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKmDzFUVT50&feature=youtu.be
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I see what you're talking about but still looks pretty good. I really like Hackberry but haven't seen it used like this before. I'll bet it will really fling an arrow :)
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Hackberry has a feel like no other wood when worked with a sharp tool, man, I love it. And the smell is soo wonderful.
When you get the tiller adjusted to where you like it, maybe you could consider piking it just a little. I know the ELB hardcores can't stand to see anything less than the mystical 72", but it could put a few lbs of draw weight back on her! Nice bow!
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Daniel,i am working on one of those hackberry staves that i got from you.i guess it is turning out ok.first hackberry for me.wish i could do pics,i need some feedback.it has got some character from knots.maybe when i get her done,i will bring it by and show you.do you still live in Hamilton?.let me know,Steve
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Arg, I didn't realize that the video wouldn't let anybody see it. Thats just stupid. I'm gonna go change that right now.
I see what you're talking about but still looks pretty good. I really like Hackberry but havn't seen it used like this before. I'll bet it will really fling an arrow :)
Thank you. I hope it shoots ok. I'm wantin to flip the tips a bit before I put the horn nocks on. I'm just worried it might effect the already not so perfect tiller when I do.
Hackberry has a feel like no other wood when worked with a sharp tool, man, I love it. And the smell is soo wonderful.
When you get the tiller adjusted to where you like it, maybe you could consider piking it just a little. I know the ELB hardcores can't stand to see anything less than the mystical 72", but it could put a few lbs of draw weight back on her! Nice bow!
Thank ya JW. I like shorter elb's too. A short d bow draws real smooth compared to a short stiff handled bow. Shoot, traditionally they would be at least 90#s and around 78" nock to nock anyway. And would of course never be make of hackberry. So I don't get the point in being traditional anyway, cause it would cost me maybe 100 - 200 dollars for a yew stave plus shipping just to make a traditional longbow, and than a good year or so of practice and training just to shoot one (well). ;D ;D ;D
Daniel,i am working on one of those hackberry staves that i got from you.i guess it is turning out ok.first hackberry for me.wish i could do pics,i need some feedback.it has got some character from knots.maybe when i get her done,i will bring it by and show you.do you still live in Hamilton?.let me know,Steve
Thats weird. I coulda swore there wasn't a single knot or even pin knot in those hackberry staves. I don't remember too well though. (my memory is crap anymore) It's gotta be the longer stave then. Hackberry sometimes has knots under the wood though, but usually has a nice clean back. It messes with my head, because ill get a stave all ready to steam bend, because it looks completely clean on the back, and when I reduce it down there is a grey black knot thing right on the belly of the part I need to recurve/tip flip!. It only really happens on smaller diameter tree though. Ya I still live in the same place. We are about to get a mortgage and move out though in a couple months, (hopefully). That hackberry's fun as hell to steam bend though. A good hour of steaming, and a good form, and it'll hold nicely without any recoil after you take it out the form (as I have recently found out, :laugh:). It is true what they say, that it needs to be pretty dry like hickory does. Typically ill get 1" to 1 1/2" set, without heat treating or hot boxing it. You should start postin your work steve, I bet you make some wicked bows!
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Nice looking bow. I would be proud of that one.
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Your right Knots.... unless you live where Yew grows it costs a fortune. I really want to try a Hack stave myself for an elb... heck of allot easier on the wallet if if doesn't pan out :(
cool video... I think JW is right if you piked it a bit you could work that upper limb and that bow would be perfect!!
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I might pike it a bit when I put the nocks on. I will probably flip the tips though first and see what the tiller looks like if I get off my lazy butt and make some new tip flipper forms sometime. :laugh:
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Daniel,i have been having a great time working with the hackberry.first time ever working with it.i still have one more very long stave that is very straight.gonna try and make an english longbow with that one.allready have some horn nocks for it.you have been making some interesting bow lately.i may need your help on the longbow.keep up the good work brother,Steve
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That's a great looking bow.
Cipriano
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Daniel,i have been having a great time working with the hackberry.first time ever working with it.i still have one more very long stave that is very straight.gonna try and make an english longbow with that one.allready have some horn nocks for it.you have been making some interesting bow lately.i may need your help on the longbow.keep up the good work brother,Steve
No prob, I can send ya some dimensions if you want, or if ya need any help or anything ill help to the best of my abilities. And Ill keep up the work, but I don't promise it will be good. :laugh:
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Looks good, i would also go for pike and heat treat, maybe not tip flip just pulled into reflex a couple inches and a slow deep heat treat.
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congrats! thats quite a longbow ,never made one that size.
Love making and shooting Hackberry! its plentiful, a good forgiving wood, has a nice stringiness in the wood grain
and doesn't mind being fire bent, or twisted either. but it does tend to follow the string.
I have some staves i'm seasoning longer then my first hack. bows. I'm hoping seasoned ones don't follow the string
as much as the ones i made with fresher wood.
Anyone have suggestions for a good length time of seasoning hackberry?
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if it was me i would heat treat the belly marc st louis did the colum in p a a couple years ago when i asked that qustion sience then every hack bow iv made has been heat treated ill tell ya you ll notice a big big diffrance it s the way to go with hackberry i love the stuff but i defintaly would do that then see where it s at befor i flipped any tips or anything just my .02 brock
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Thanks Dwardo and Richard. Dwardo, I have not got a paint remover gun, nor do I have a caul made up at this point, or else I would take your advice. Pearl Drums also told me that hackberry likes to be heat treated. I need to make one really. I have tried heat treating before, but did not get the hang of it too much. I really didn't like the look of the discolored wood, but I'm sure thats cause I screwed it all up and didn't do it right! :laugh: Richard, I like to season the fresh splits about 2 to 3 months to let them reflex and twist if they are going to, and then I will rough out a bow and let it dry. After the bow is roughed out it drys real fast. Maybe a month in the summer, two months plus some hot boxing to be sure. If you can get it real dry, it will not take that much set. One thing that helps me with reducing set is to throw the staves in my van in the summer sun all day. When they come out they smell great, like they were baked in an oven. I love that smell. LOL One thing that seems to help with set too (obviously) is to start with a reflexed stave, and it seems when I leave the log as a half log for the first month or so it will most likely reflex, where as if I split it into quarters immediately, it will sometime deflex. But I guess it is not fail safe, as wood's gonna do what woods gonna do. Ill just sinew backed bows outta my deflexed stave, and reflex them when I put the sinew on I guess.
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Don't beat yourself up too much... just pretend you wanted it a tad it whip :laugh:
there's more than one way to tiller a bow.
Del
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Del, thats basically what I do on every bow I make that ends up whippy. Or anything else wrong with it for that matter. :laugh: By the way Del, I decided to flip the tips just cause I know you hate that. ;D ;D ;D Naw, but it has like 3" set on both limbs (all my fault not the bows) and the only way I have at the moment of reducing the set is flipping the tips. This has been a very annoying bow to tiller. After struggling to get the braced profile looking good, I find one limb is alot stronger than the other. Then after fixing that, the brace is back to looking like a yumi bow instead of a longbow? ? ? Anyway, I did end up getting the bow to work better mid limb and not be so whip ended. Got rid of that hinge looking spot on the top, which was really the worst thing irking me. I am pretty happy so far. I am flipping the tips a bit on some new not so dramatic tip flipping forms at the moment, so it will be a little bit till I have some pictures. I kinda wish I hadn't made the temp nocks and did some nicer nocks I could keep, but I am kinda forced to use horn nocks now that my temp nocks are so ugly. Ill post some pics in a couple days... Steve, btw, those turkey fletchings were great, I got most of em processed and am wait till I got a spinner to make some arrows.
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Ok, she survived tip flipping. Braced er up, and she looks real good. I am thinking I will be ordering some horn nocks tonight. :laugh: I will have a fulldraw when my wife gets home from school to take a photo tonight. I am thinking 60# or so @ 28". Here is a photo of the bow after having the tips flipped. I took the forms off only 20 minutes, or maybe a half an hour, after steam bending em. They held fine. I waited till this morning to brace it though.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/hackberry%20longbow/Snapshot12-15-201210-30AM.png)
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Current fulldraw (sorry for bad quality)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/hackberry%20longbow/Snapshot12-15-201211-19PM.png)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/hackberry%20longbow/Snapshot22-15-201211-15PM.png)
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It looks a lot better with the flipped tips. Some dark horn nocks would really set it off. When you go to get a heat gun, you don't need the expensive ones from Lowes or HD. Walmart has a cheap one. I think it is a wagner. I have been using mine for at least 4 years now and it still works great. It quit working once, but once I repaired the melted spot in the cord it was good to go ::)
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That turned out nice, that should be a sweet shooter. :) You are right horn nocks would really set it off. :)
Pappy
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Thanks guys. I ordered some horn nocks yesterday, so when they are finished ill post some better pics I promise. I tried to get it a little less whippy. I'm sorry about the crappy quality pictures. This camera is really kicking my butt. I really am thinking about springing for a new camera. I can't even use the picture taking feature on this one as it is impossible to get a picture without it being all blurry, so I have to make a movie on the thing and then use the windows movie maker program to take a picture out of the movie. Do you guys know a good camera for less than 100 dollars or around there that will give me at least decent quality pictures? I saw some nice ones at sears the other day for around 60 - 80 dollars, way nice than the one I got now, which for some reason cost me 50 dollars at target, but seems more like a kids toy than an actual usable camera.