Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: parson on February 03, 2012, 09:02:27 pm
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Curious as to who tillers from fades, or handles out, as opposed to from tips inward?
Are there pros/cons for either?
Thanks
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i suppose it could depend on the type of bow your making too.
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I do neither. Most of the tillering is done just after first bracing to get a proper shape. After that it's just scraping up the stiffer areas, checking while drawing the bow and shooting in. Then again I don't aim for a specific draw weight and creep towards it at higher and higher draw lengths.
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Fades out. I can't even imagine how I would tiller from tips in. How can you test how she's bending? Jawge
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I believe this is how you would do it tips in.
http://www.primitiveways.com/bow_tillering.html
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Im with Jawge on thsi one. In my opinion its all in the taper fella's. If you have a good, even taper out of the vice you can almost bet you could low brace it right then and have 20 minutes of tillering to finish it off. Instead of starting on tips or fades, you simply scrape the few flat spots wherever they are. I have been asked a few times how I get bows done so quickly. A perfect taper out of the vice is the second biggest factor. I dont work fast, that I promise!
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I'm with Jawge and Pearl. You get a good even taper and just start taking weight off. Took a good bit of breaking to learn how to get a good taper but that is the secret.
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Good tapering produces good tillering (Paul Comstock wrote that in his book "The Bent Stick) . Understand that and the rest is pretty much reducing weight.
I go to the short string quickly, and scrape from tips to fades (reduces the chances of cutting the string) to reduce weight with the short string on. Quick, easy and simple ;D!
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I have found over the years that there are many ways to do the same thing. Some bowyers measure everything including limb taper. I've always felt the lack of homogeneity of wood even within the same stave precludes such a technique. Test and bend. Draw and check is what I do. Now I always try to keep an open mind for new ways. People that really know me realize how closed my mind really is and how untrue that last sentence is. LOL. My daughters would smile at that. :) Jawge
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Close minded? You Georgey? Ah Fooey! Never seen it and dont believe it buddy.......;) Would the girls smile at that to?
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Have to agree with Pearl and the others, get the thickness taper as close as possible before even bending the limbs. If you did a careful job, chances are most of your "tillering" will be reducing draw weight and touching up a few stiff spots.
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Being old and feeble I have to look for the easy-outs George :'(. And my mind does a 180 everytime I turn around >:D.
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I'm more like George with his tillering. I try to get and keep the limbs bending evenly and togerther from early on without regard to actual limb taper. From the time of floor tiller with only 4" of tip movement I want the limbs to bend evenly and together. It is hard to see at floor tiller but I give it my best shot. Once I get to low brace I want the limbs as close as possible and work towards that until they do. From there it is a matter of reducing weight but keeping in mind that both limbs still have to bend evenly and together. Once I hit full brace height all I want to do is reduce weight, again keeping both limbs bending evenly and together.
The limb shape(looking at the back) will have an effect on the bend from the beginning and it is up to the bowyer to finess the tiller to maintain this bend through out the tillering process until he hits the draw weight at the draw length he is in search of.
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All responses appreciated. The people on this site truly are a wealth of information.
Thanks
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this may sound wierd, but I do much of my tillering with my thumb and fore finger! I start at the fades and work my way don the limb to feel for a constant limb thickness taper. If I feel a thick spot I makit and remove wood there, if I can feel that is thin, I mark no touch on the belly. This method is useful for snakey bows where thickness taper is hard to judge.
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Like most of the others I get the limb bending evenly. I like to chase the belly one growth ring at a time floor tillering the bow as I get closer keeping the belly thickness as even as I can and then once I get to low brace just touch everything up.
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I think you can only look at the whole bow, and slowly bring the whole thing into shape.
how can you look at one area? Often to fix one area you have to work on an entirely different piece of the bow QED.
It's like drawing a picture, you have to sketch the overall thing and then build up the level of detail over the whole work at an even level else you end up with a tiny drawing in the corner of the page , or one part out of proportion to the rest.
Del
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To each his own. See Pearlie. :) Jawge
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I love it Jawge. We all make beautifully tillered bows, but we cant agree on the right way to tiller them! That is what I love most about building bows and talking with people that build bows. These sites would be boring if there where only one way to do it all!
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Seems to me, all thats been said would point to tillering being in the realm of art. Even though there is science behind it.
I would call you all artists ;D
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i like to take the tillering stick off the wall and tiller on the stick. idk why i just prefer it. you get to watch it even out and make corrections on the spot.
thats just me though.
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I took the advice of a very good Bowyer one time and the first place I start with a limb bending is the middle 3rd at floor tiller. Once I get pretty close to the draw weight I'm looking for with both limbs being consistant in bend, then I move to the tiller tree. I will worry a little more with how the inner 3rd is bending at that point, but I will always have a good reference taper prior to starting. As already said, regardless of how much fuss you spend measuring, you will still end up some place else, but without some reference to start with, the wood takes too much stress trying to point it out for you.
The closer you can get to the final dimensions upfront prior to bending, the better your result will be. I know thats easier said than done but building a lot of bows using the same design you get pretty good at just feeling the weight of the wood and knowing how to design the bow.
Art, that's a good tip on scraping at brace. I came very close to cutting a string watching it unravel like a time bomb ready to explode. It didn't, but I figured out real quick to change my direction with the scraper. If I'm not mistaken the string has more tension at brace than at full draw not taking much to put you into a bad situation.
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gmc, that's one reason why I unstring depending on where I am in the building process and what area needs to be scraped. If I am working the fades I'll leave it strung. That's about it. I hit the string with a scraper once and ended up with one strand left. That's what I get for using sharpened tools. That must be one reason some bowyers use dull tools like dull dknives. :) Jawge
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I hear ya Jawage.
With all the pressure on the string, it doesn't take much.
Yes, working the fade areas only would be a best practice for sure.
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After the first time you cut your string you'll learn to pad the upper side of your scraper ;D. Believe me, cutting a string in this fashion is much less dramatic than having it your hands at full draw and it letting go :laugh:. Now who hasn't had that happen :'(!
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I had it happen once, Art. I had just finished scraping a bow using all stone tools. I even felled it with a stone axe. Now I know, from what I've read on archery forums these days, some wouldn't hesitate to thrown on a fast flight string. I didn't even want to use B50 so I twisted a string out of hardware store hemp. I shot it a good 50 times and then the string broke. I've never even strung it up since that. :( Jawge
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Pretty sure someone on here said that "The sooner you get it looking like a bow, the sooner it will start acting like one."
Combine that with tapering both planes and your already there. Chasing a ring on the belly or more of a feather of rings dependant on the bow is what i also aim for.
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I had it happen once, Art. I had just finished scraping a bow using all stone tools. I even felled it with a stone axe. Now I know, from what I've read on archery forums these days, some wouldn't hesitate to thrown on a fast flight string. I didn't even want to use B50 so I twisted a string out of hardware store hemp. I shot it a good 50 times and then the string broke. I've never even strung it up since that. :( Jawge
I think that's why my draw is soooooooooooo short today George, LOL!
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Wel mine is a not so hefty 26 in draw, Art. Jawge