Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: coaster500 on November 20, 2011, 01:04:29 am
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Questions, I am working on a Hackberry and it is starting to take a little set (story of my life) so I was thinking I might flip the tips a bit and try toasting it?
If you flip the tips on a bow do you tiller all the way to the tips? Do you finish the tiller to your weight before you flip them? I don't want to get crazy just a little bend on the ends.
This is my progress so far I'm 42@20 and I'm trying for 50 to 52@28
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackberrystave003a.jpg)
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flip them now, let them sit a few days and don't remove anymore from the tip's or they will probablly just pull out, least ways that's what i'd do, how much set do you have, a little set just makes a nice shooter, Bub
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Bubby it looks like about an inch of set but it's a tad uneven top limb vs bottom.
When you flip tips do you use oil or anything or just dry heat?
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Coaster500 I agree with Bubby and would do it now but you may want to consider heating the intire limb because most will probally return. Especially since it sounds like your pretty darn close to your weight after you pull her 8 more inches. Do you have a form to heat it on?
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Flipping the tips at this point will add additional strain on the limbs causing more set and resulting in no net benefit. Once a bow starts taking set, it's too late to add reflex.
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One end has about a 1/2 inch and this end about an 1". Alot of it is very close to the tips?
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackberrystave004.jpg)
This is the form I cut out this afternoon....
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackberrystave005.jpg)
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that's not alot of set really
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Agreed with Gordon flipping the tips will increase strain. If one limb has taken more set than the other it is weaker than the other. You should use set as a tillering guideline. The best place to get set is in the outer limbs as it has the least effect on cast. I would get the inner limbs working a little more. Also you are going to be very close to your desired weight when you pull it to 50lbs.
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Hackberry GENERALLY takes on more set than most, its very soft wood. It has to be bone dry and carefully tillered. The two hackberry bows I built were heat treated and that helped allot I think. One was a 61" working handle for me and the other was a 62" flat bow for my son. Both are still shooting and neither have a compression fracture one.
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In my experience, flipping the tips as a solution to set doesn't solve anything. It puts the limbs under more strain, so they take more set, which make the forward angle of the tips a wash in overall string follow and draw weight.
If you "do" want to try it, though, use STEAM to flip the tips, NOT dry heat. Dry heat is great for subtle corrections like adding even reflex or tweaking string alignment. More serious adjustments like flipped or recurved tips almost demand steam. I've done it with dry heat, but have broken far more than have been successful. I won't even try it anymore with dry heat. Too risky with all the hard work already invested.
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Ok, maybe we will just tiller this one and hope for a bow with out the flip. I'll try messin with the tips on the next one...
One more question? should I use the limb with the most set as the top or bottom limb? Right now the tips end up even when pulled...
Thanks again for all your help...
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My old eyes may not be seeing this right ,and I am no expert but I see allot of stiffness in the handle area> I would take it out then put this bow on a full length form that has a progressive reflex ( not a re-curve like you show) and toast that belly good ! after that lets see what you have ,probably just a little touch up and go! How long is that stave ?
Guy
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It's 64"s long......The handle on this came in shorter than it looks. The back part is only 4's but I may still remove a bit more at the fades... Thank you
Well this was the only chunk of lumber I could find for a form. I hope I didn't toast it to much? It wasn't long enough but it was the only "free" game in town. It's raining here so it should rehydrate quickly...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/form.jpg)
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Lookin good Coaster. I've got some hackberry in the works as well and looking forward to finishing. :)
Heat treating the belly at this point will most likely pull back out. I've read and it makes sense that some material should be removed from belly to get those compressed cells outta the way that are pulling it into deflex, then temper the belly well and get the core to at least 140F. Yes, removing wood will weaken the bow, but tempering will at that poundage back in if done right. All that said, you still may end up with set, though maybe a little less than you would have. I'd let it rehydrate for about a week after tempering.
Just my two cents. I hope she makes a great shooter for you either way :D
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Did the belly change color I cant tell ?
If it did you are on your way !
how much the color changed will be somewhat of an indicator of how long it will take to rehydrate !
Try to leave it alone for a couple of days if its dark
Guy
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Yes the belly turn a light caramel color. I was pretty carful not to burn it. I'm setting this one aside for now and will probably start the layout on another. I've got a Vine Maple, Mulberry and an Osage that are seasoned and ready for something? The Osage looks like it might be a bit of a challenge so it may sit a while longer.
Thanks for the comments and help....
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Got back to the Hackberry today and I think I'm pretty much done except the finish stuff... It came in about 54@27 and that's a bit stiff for me but it shoots so good I think I may leave it? I slams a 659 grain arrow like a champ. I almost can't believe how quick it feels. After about 100 plus arrows and an arm that feels like it's going to fall off...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous001.jpg)
These are the braced and unbraced pics right after shooting. It did not keep the entire reflex but did very well and stayed almost straight. Maybe a 1/2 to 5/8” between the wall and the tip and that is my best attempt at straight so far. All in all I really like the way this bow shoots and it is extremely consistent and accurate....
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous004.jpg)
Thanks all for the help...
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coaster,
Looks pretty good. If it shoots hard and more importantly it shoots where you look, you have a fun bow. Lots of good comments to learn more. Way to go.
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Thank you..
This is a great place to learn Kpete.... Lot's of great folks with a ton of knowledge ....
It only took a tiny bit of the reflex back after sitting a bit ( Chris I may not have toasted it enough?) but I couldn't be happier.... It's straight!!!!!! This one really shoots and loves that 659 grain arrow.... I have to say I really like this wood for a bunch of reasons.....
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That looks great, now get it all tarted up and lets have the FD! ;)
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I just finished off a hackberry(just put the last coat of tru oil on this morn),and Its super easy to work with,a few hours last thur,a few on the next day,and a few more on sat n I was shooting it. I also found out hackberry takes longer to toast than other woods. I spent an hour on each limb,and it took awhile for the heat to penetrate down into the wood,and I gave her a deep dark toast. It sure does make a quick bow due to its lightness,especially with eiffel tower tips. Its neck n neck with my fastest bow,and that bows a screamer. Ill be posting mine later this eve or tomorrow eve,can't wait to see your s all finished up. And I wish I had hackberry in my area to cut but I don't,a good buddy begifted my stave to me... ;)...you know who you are..ill give ya props and credit when I post it buddy ;) :laugh:
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Thats too bad Chris, that stuff grow's like weeds up here I tall ya'.
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Hackextorus 64”s 54 @27 , is finished (bow #4 :) ... for now
This bow shoots so hard I decided to leave the tips natural... don't want to slow it down (I already added string silencers)... Last piece of leather I had came up a bit small but works for now. I like to build up the back of the handle with carved leather (big old hands) and the string silencers are Alpaca yarn from my wife’s basket. The bow had the tiniest bit of resonance at the shot. Now it is dead silent and Alpaca weighs nothing and didn't seem to change the speed?
Nobody here to take full draw picks but here is the final un-braced pics (maybe 150 arrows total?) and a few more…. Not perfect but every bow teaches me a bit more and this one is a shooter!!
Thank you all for the help and keeping me from an experiment that probably would not have gone well….
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous013.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous005.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous006.jpg)
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(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous007.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous008.jpg)
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(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous011.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/Hackadexterous012.jpg)
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Very nice job. I like the grain patterns on it. I have some hackberry in the garage rafters that needs made into a bow.
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Thank you
I used some light walnut stain under tru-oil to help the grain pop a bit. This Hackberry is very light wood in color an even with the stain it's still fairly lite colored...
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My wife came home just long enough to yake a video and some pictures... I had to shoot from my knees as the sun ate up the top limb in the brightness... anyway here we go.. I had to cant the bow some to make sure the bottom limb cleared...
The tiller isn't perfect and I could probably have still removed a bit of wood for my 50# target but man it shot so right I was afraid to mess with it anymore?
Click on the picture ... It's a video
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/th_Hackadexterous026.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Hackberry%20Bow%20project%20Oct%202011/?action=view¤t=Hackadexterous026.mp4)
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Looks real good. ;)
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That is a great tiller! Nice job yet again. That few extra pounds you left behind will be shot out in the next 300-400 arrows. You will probably settle in right where you want it to be.
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I'm paralyzed in the bow arm from shooting (might be up to 300 shots or more now). I'm still at about 54#s and it comes back to almost straight at rest. It still feels like greased lightning with that heavy arrow. This one makes me smile every time I shoot it. My injuries are getting better and we've had a bit of rain so this bow and I are going to try for a Cali-Hog or two this winter. Now wouldn't that be something for this old desk jockey.... ;D
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Very nice bow! Well done! it looks like it really flings an arrow! I like the grip too nice work!
Josh
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that is a great shooting stick....thanks so much for sharing it with us...i also really like from for forms...i need to get some wood and go over to keenans and cut out 2. one with reflex and one for flipping tips...john
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Thanks again guys...
Chris my shoulder is still hoping it will drop into 50#s but she's still holding!! Your Hackberry posts are what made me want to try this stuff to begin with.
Josh, I have to say the grip it feels great in this catchers mitt of mine...
John your praise is highly prized after seeing that mean looking Pearldrums Hack attack you posted I love that bow.. You had allot less working limb to tiller and not stress than me and it looks terrific !!