Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: iowabow on August 23, 2011, 12:59:39 pm
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I want to buy new arrow shafts (Port Oxford Cedar). I have been making my arrows from red oak that was in the back yard. I want to make a real nice set of arrow for practice. My goal is to improve my target skills with the Osage bow. If you were me and had a 45 # 62 self bow what dia/wt and what point wt would you use. I currently have 400 grain red oak shafts with 100 grain points. I am concerned that I am not placing enough wt forward of center and that the shafts are not maintaining good form shot after shot.
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What's you draw length?
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25 in
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We should talk, I've got arrows made up that will shoot great outta your bow. Maybe trade for some more pink rock? 8) I've got shafts already made, I've got bare shafts w/o fletching and I've got fletching too, also nocks if you don't want to self nock. They are 11/32" POC and the tips are 125 grains. I don't have a scale yet, getting one for my b-day in October, so I don't know the weight of the arrows. @ 25" I'd say you could get by w/ 40# shafts, that is if your bow is 45# @ 28". Does your bow have a shelf or do you shoot off the hand? If it has a shelf, is it center shot or a longbow (non-centered) shelf? Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.
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Yes I am shooting off my hand.
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When you buy commercial arrow shafting they are spined for a 28" finished arrow with a 125gr point. For each inch under 28" add 5# of effective spine weight and for each inch over 28" subtract 5# per inch. I like my arrows long. I draw 26" but cut my arrows at 29" to 30", so I subtract 5# to 10# of effective spine weight when setting up arrows. Point weight over and under 125gr will also affect arrows effective spine weight by decreasing or increasing spine respectively.
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Pat what is you thoughts on point wt?
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OK I want to follow this correctly, I have a 45 pound long bow and a 25.5 inch draw length and want to shoot a 125 grain point and I am bying shafts. So I add 12.5 to the pound of the arrow and now I have a 57.5 so an arrow that is spined at 50-60 is for me or did I do that backwards?
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but if I am adding 2 inches then my draw is only a 1/2 inch from 28 so a 40-45 should work?
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Iowa,
If I read correctly you were wanting to set up target arrows. In my experience if your arrows are basically wanted for consistency (shot to shot) the weight forawrd argument should not apply. For target bows I like my arrows just sligthly weight forward (allmost neutral) they will be faster and flatter that way. A finished arrow weight of 400 grains (+ or - 50 grains) will shoot nearly flat at 15/20 yards, and have managable drop at 30 yards.....if they are neutral weighted and smaller than "hunting" size fletch. The other thing (just my experience) is that if the arrows are draw length + 1" and no more you should encounter less variance in their manners. Less shaft, less chances of spine and density differences.
I really think that the EWF talk is aimed at driving force of an arrow and head to increase penetration in the target, and would not apply to target archery. Like Pat B said about the spine figures ....the are based on the AMO standard 28" spacing and 125 grain weighted heads. I aint sayin how you ought go about your selection....but I believe you will be happier (and more consistent) with faster, low trajectory, arrows. You will also probably like lighter finished arrows, as long as they have enough mass to utilize the energy in the bow (too light is dry-fire and bow damaging and too heavy is sacrificing trajectory).
Hope that wasn't too much BS just my thoughts based on my experience.
rich
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I think you did it backwards? In my opinion, 40-45# is what you want w/ a 125g point. I'm not for sure if I have any more in that range. I may only have 50+# spines. I shoot a recurve, so it is center shot and I use all different spine weights. Doesn't matter as much w/ a center shot.
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I think you've got it backwards there. Those arrows will probably be way too stiff for your bow, especially a self bow without a center-cut shelf. Work it in the opposite direction to get the ones you need. You're probably going to need under 45# spined arrows to get around the handle of your bow. Also, I tend to agree with Rich in that you probably don't want EFOC arrows for target shooting. They may help stabilize the arrow faster, and increase penetration, but they also start dropping a lot faster. Start off a little long with the arrows and cut them down until they fly like darts.
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Wow there is a lot I have learned over the last 24 hours about arrows. For one I did not know I was to consider the additional length of the arrow. I have no idea what the base of notch to base of tip measurement is on my arrows. So I have to measure everything and figure again where I am at. Thanks guys, any other help or advice would be appreciated
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The shorter the shaft the stiffer it will be and the longer it is the more flexable it will be.
I build arrows for hunting so I prefer a heavy(10g/p or more) arrow with good weight forward properties. Target arrows are different. Like Rich said, you'll want lighter arrows for flatter trajectory...but the AMO spine standards are the same.
When I bought cedars for arrows I would generally buy 10# less than the bows draw weight and cut them initally at 30"(for my 26" draw). After I make up the arrows I see how they shoot. If too flimsey I cut off an inch and try again. For each inch I cut off I can add 5# of spine weight.
(a bought shaft spined at 45#-50#(at 28") but cut to 30" will have an effective spine of 35#-40#. Cut to 29" it will have an effective spine of 40#-45#...cut to 26" it will be 55#-60#)
Also, the more weight(past 125gr) you add to the point will decrease the spine weight but I can never remember those values. Heavy points make shafts bend more when shot. Less than 125gr will stiffen the arrow.
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Pat B thank you for that post it was very helpful. Ok now I get it!
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Building good flying arrows is one of the most difficult parts of archery. Any bow will fling an arrow but not every arrow will fly well from a bow!
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Building good flying arrows is one of the most difficult parts of archery. Any bow will fling an arrow but not every arrow will fly well from a bow!
Sheesh Pat, I had just about worked up the nerve to start making my own arrows with these Phrag's I cut and now after reading your statement I having second thoughts :-\
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This is a really good thread for beginners like me.
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Go for it Lee! Make sure you fire harden 'em first though. I've busted a lot of phrag shafts because I didn't want to take that extra time. Probably some of that wood hardener stuff that's been mentioned on here wouldn't hurt either. Make sure your kids are standing behind you and not next to you when you shoot 'em too. ;)
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I've never made arrows from Phrag but I have used horse weed, goldenrod, dog fennel and other "weeds" all with good results. It's not necessarily the materials thjat make good arrows but good arrow makers and that is a learned process. ;)
Once you get the hang of it it get pretty simple. Most of the arrows I make are either sourwood shoots or cane and I vary rarely use my spine tester except to find the stiff side, which goes against the bow. Also, I never build arrow sets. I make each one individually. If one doesn't fly well I'll add fluflu fletching and use them for squirrels, etc.
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Bowtarist how do you fire harden? Would I do that before I straighten the shafts or after?
Thanks Pat...great info and I feel a little better now about the project. I have a Osage NA shorty that I am mid-sinewing and another Osage flatbow I need to sand out, add horn overlays and then dye and add Cherry bark as a backing but as soon as those two are mostly wrapped up the arrows are next on my "hit list". I just traded for and got gifted about a dozen real nice stone points for deer hunting so I need to haft those on some fore shafts too.