Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Lloyd on June 21, 2007, 12:18:07 am
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I finally finished my swallow tails. I finished the 1st one almost 6 months ago, and I just finished the last of them. These are by no means a matched set.
The weights go from 1200 to almost 1800 grains. Two of them are almost an inch longer than the rest, the long ones are 36.5 with a draw length of
33, the rest are 35.25 with a draw length of almost 32". 5 of them are fletched with peacock feathers, but I ran out of white peacock so the last one is
fletched with 3 turkey feathers. All are ash and fletched with 9 inch feathers and bound with red silk. 5 of them are 1/2" barreled to 7/16 at the point and 3/8 at the nock.
The other one is 7/16 at the point and 3/8 at the nock.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t46/lloydwwinter/Archery/swallowtailsfulllength-2.jpg) (http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t46/lloydwwinter/Archery/swallowtailsfulllength-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t46/lloydwwinter/Archery/swallowtailsfletching.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t46/lloydwwinter/Archery/swallowtailsheads.jpg)
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Stunning!
The whippings incredibly neat,i hope to get mine as good as that one day ;D.
Is the binding under the nock necessary or just for show? i didnt think it was needed if your adding a horn insert,i never put any on my last ones :-[.
I can imagine the fletches sticking out of six dead destrier's :D.
Happy Solstice folks!!
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Lloyed those are some nice looking arrows. marlon ;D
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Wow, stunning stickers.
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they should go well out of an 150# warbow ;)
looks like your going to be shooting lots of horses :D
just an observation ;) did you countersink your whipping? :)
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Hi peasant!
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Man, those are some very nice arrows. Are those swallowtail heads vulnerable to breakage during practice shots? Absolutely beautiful work.
J. D. Duff
Hey peasant--welcome!
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hello :) Ive changed my name to provent confusion :)
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hello :) Ive changed my name to provent confusion :)
Ha, ha. Mistaken identity huh? Well, welcome anyway.
J. D. Duff
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Loki, I'm not sure the nock binding is necessary but I figure better safe than sorry. Practice (a lot) makes perfect (kind of). :)
Pleb, no I didn't countersink the whipping, but some of the fletchings have fairly thick quills, and on those the thread did sink in a little. So there may be some countersinking but it was entirely accidental. The thread is definitely sitting on top of the shaft. That thin silk thread can be treacherous. If you wrap your bindings too tight it can actually cut through the feather. Hence the running out of white peacock feathers before the set is done. :-[
JD, yes they will break if they hit a hard target. And then I will cry like a baby. :'( Then I will swear like a sailor. >:(
Marlon, now that those are done I can concentrate on yours.
Thanks for all the kind words everyone. I'll post more as they are finished. I have some type 7s in the works now, and then probably some lightweight (a mere 700 grains or so) 3/8" galling arrows with type 8s I think. If anyone has any 9" goose or swan they want to trade let me know.
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nice arrows. Im in the process of making one
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Loki, I'm not sure the nock binding is necessary but I figure better safe than sorry.
I had one spilt on me this morning,luckily it was just a practice arrow with a field pile.I'm going to bind all my nocks from now on,especially with the heavy heads.
(http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3091/fdgfsdrgag4.th.jpg) (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fdgfsdrgag4.jpg)
(http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/8185/iyuiouoyigk9.th.jpg) (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iyuiouoyigk9.jpg)
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Very nice arrows. Have you shoot them yet?
I was interested to read in Hugh Soar's Secrets of the English Warbow that the swallowtail was so effective at armour. This head seemed almost as effective in most instances as the bodkin, probably due to the weight as much as anything else.
Mark in England
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Very nice arrows. Have you shoot them yet?
I was interested to read in Hugh Soar's Secrets of the English Warbow that the swallowtail was so effective at armour. This head seemed almost as effective in most instances as the bodkin, probably due to the weight as much as anything else.
Mark in England
Isn't it the case that a flatish head pierces armour best? I've not seen the armour piercing DVD from SPTA, but I heard rumours that a lozenge shaped head worked best. Does anyone know exactly what type of head that was? e.g. type 16 or tudor bodkin for example?
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Do you mean the 9A?
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Very nice arrows. Have you shoot them yet?
I was interested to read in Hugh Soar's Secrets of the English Warbow that the swallowtail was so effective at armour. This head seemed almost as effective in most instances as the bodkin, probably due to the weight as much as anything else.
Mark in England
Not yet. I'm recovering from a fairly serious neurological problem. I've just started shooting again after 6 months of disability. Right now I can barley handle a #30 recurve. My doctor says I may never draw a heavy bow again, but he's been wrong before and he's wrong now. All my longbows are hanging on the rack gathering dust and casting recriminating glances at me whenever I walk down the hall. ;)
I was surprised to read Mark's armor piecing section in Secrets of the English Warbow. Once I can draw a heavy bow again I intend to try my own experiments, but not with Damascus swallowtails.
Simon, I think the lozenge shaped head was a 9a or something like that. Not absolutely sure though.
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Was it the 9a that they used in the SPTA tests? It doesn't look very flat from the pictures I have of 9a.
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Do you have a pic of the flat bit?
Mark Stretton was the Archer for those tests,you can buy his armour piercing head from Steves site,it looks similar to a 9a.
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Loki, the only picture of a 9a I could find was the one you sent me. It looks quite square.
I could be wrong about the best piercer being flat, it was something I heard through the grapevine from someone at the Archers of the Tees (which must be near you in fact).
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Lloyd has some 9a's maybe he'll chime in with the info but i dont think there's a flat spot on them (the tip?),they are three sided kinda like a crossbow quarrel i believe.
Archers of the Tees (which must be near you in fact).
Little south of me mate,Darlingtons a bit of a hike for me but looking on there site they have some good shoots coming up.Wand world championship at Raby Castle next month,Raby was the home of the Nevilles, who fought the Scots so well :D.
The shoots after that are open shoots at the Roman forts on the Wall,Segedunun (Wallsend) and Arbeia (South Shields) i might have a drive up to these,i like a shoot with a atmosphere and they look like a good bunch.
(http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/7880/raby6eh2.th.jpg) (http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=raby6eh2.jpg)
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The tips I have that I think look like 9a's are diamond shaped in cross section. They normally come off looking square in pictures but in person you can tell they are diamond shaped.
Top one hand forged, bottom two are machined. It's easier to tell on the machined one that they are not square, although they are really more type 9's than 9a's. The hand forged one is also presenting one face flat to the camera which makes it look even more square.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t46/lloydwwinter/Archery/wararrows_heads.jpg)
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Lozenge is indeed the best profile. The problem with the outline of the arrowhead is - if too pointy it will roll or break on impact and if too steep it wont cut.
J.
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And! Nice job Lloyd.
J.
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Yes those arrows really are professionally made. How do you get that neat fit between shaft and head? I've been using a penknife then the edge of a file to make the shoulder flat.
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Yes those arrows really are professionally made. How do you get that neat fit between shaft and head? I've been using a penknife then the edge of a file to make the shoulder flat.
Very carefully! Actually I cheat :o. I use an arrow saw to cut a groove that matches the internal diameter of the socket to get a good clean shoulder. Then I finish the taper with knife, files saws etc.... For arrows with machined heads I usually use a belt sander to grind the taper. For hand forged heads I try to keep the power tools to a minimum, usually just the one cut for the shoulder, unless I'm feeling lazy that day.
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I try go get as snug a fit as possible, but I wonder if you can be left with too little glue between the wood and the socket that way? I haven't had any problems so far though.
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I must be doing something wrong then,i've lost loads of the buggers!Tudor style short Bodkins especially love staying in the target ;D.
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I use the slowest setting epoxy I can find. I've never had a problem with the glue joint failing. I have broken shafts trying to get the arrow out of the target though...
I think the idea of pinning your points on is a good one if you are shooting 1/2" shafts. Anything smaller and there's not usually enough wood inside the socket to make me comfortable drilling a hole through it.
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Those swallowtails are wicked.I'd love to have some for hunting.
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Those swallowtails are wicked.I'd love to have some for hunting.
I think you'd find that they are highly illegal in most states. Anywhere that has rules about barbed heads will definitely have a conniption fit over swallow tails. :o