Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: medicinewheel on June 17, 2007, 04:44:50 pm

Title: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on June 17, 2007, 04:44:50 pm
hi again!  -  finally found some time to do bowyer's work this weekend!

i had started an osage recurve beginning of the year. that bow broke while i was tillering at my friend chris's workshop when the holder of the tillertree came apart: the bow exploded right above my head...

this weekend i started another osage bow (at chris's place  8) ). i did the layout, roughly cut it out and successfully worked the back down to a nice big dark yearring. the snakey layout is perfectly in-line from tip to center of handle to tip.

as you can see the stave had a fairly even reflex of over 4" so i would not want to induce more. i wonder whether it might make sense to heat-treat the belly some anyway! what would you guys think??

thanks for every comment, frank

ps: the osage is from hungary and is of really nice quality, nice big yearrings and good springwood/latewood ratio!

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Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: Justin Snyder on June 17, 2007, 05:46:46 pm
Looks like you are well on your way to a great bow.  How wide is the bow at the fades?  Osage don't have to be very wide.  I would wait until you have the tiller close to finish before heat treating the belly.  But that is just my opinion.  ;) Justin
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: jignfrog on June 17, 2007, 05:59:59 pm
I love it Frank. How thick are the rings? How thick is the ring you chose as the back?  It looks like a dandy bow. I can't wait to see it finished. Keep us posted. !! 


Ron
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: medicinewheel on June 17, 2007, 06:16:20 pm

thanks justin!  -  the bow is 2" at the fades right now. i know that is too wide. i'll reduce it to something like 1,5".
thanks ron!  -  i really look forward, too! sorry i can't messure the ring right now, bit less than 1/4" i'd guess.

frank
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: david w. on June 17, 2007, 07:15:07 pm
looks good
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: mullet on June 17, 2007, 09:48:19 pm
   Looks real good Frank,Nice Character in that piece of wood.How does the Osage you have differ from whats over here?
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: tom sawyer on June 18, 2007, 12:12:30 am
Very nice blank.  I would probably put it on a form and go ahead and give both limbs the same reflex profile.  Justin is right about heat-treating though, you do that late so you don't remove the wood that is treated.
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: Pat B on June 18, 2007, 12:33:29 am
Looks good Frank. I love osage! ;D It is a great bow wood. Look close at the scraps the you cut off the stave. might be a bow in it. ;)  Looking forward to seeing your progress. Get Marius to help you. He is an experienced osage bow builder now! ::)     Pat

ps. Where is that rascal(Marius) anyway? ???
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: koan on June 18, 2007, 12:40:33 am
Geat start Frank.....Brian
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: Ryano on June 18, 2007, 12:47:05 am
Nice looking piece of wood Frank. I agree about the width, 2" is to wide for a osage bow of that length.
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: medicinewheel on June 18, 2007, 02:13:11 am
   .................How does the Osage you have differ from whats over here?

it's the same kind of tree that you have over there, just some people over here will tell you hungarian is not as good as american. i personally do believe there is both good not so good in hungary as is good and not so good in america.

guys thanks for the compliments, i'll keep you posted,

frank
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: Pappy on June 18, 2007, 06:31:53 am
Good looking start,keep us posted Frank.
   Pappy :)
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: GregB on June 18, 2007, 08:53:47 am

Looking good, looks like one I helped castiron lay out this weekend. :)
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: Dustybaer on June 24, 2007, 05:18:46 am
pat, i'm right here  ;D and believe me, judging by the bows frank has made so far, he's way beyond my capabilities as a bowyer.

frank, can't wait to see this one finished.
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: NOMADIC PIRATE on June 24, 2007, 05:36:53 am
That's gonna be a nice bow for sure ;D
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: Hillbilly on June 24, 2007, 10:13:40 am
Looks like you're well on your way to a nice bow. Osage is quite variable over here, too-everything from great wood to nearly useless junk, just depends on what conditions it's growing under and probably genetics of the trees, too.
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: heavybow on June 24, 2007, 10:17:36 am
Sweet looking bow frank. marlon
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: 1/2primitive on June 24, 2007, 10:18:35 am
Nice stave, looks like it'll be a good bow in no time.
     Sean
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: jpitts on June 24, 2007, 03:51:20 pm
It's gonna be a great bow.
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: George Tsoukalas on June 24, 2007, 04:32:16 pm
I'm liking it a lot.  :)  :D  ;DJawge
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: medicinewheel on June 25, 2007, 05:27:57 pm

gentlemen, thanks for all the kind replies! - i was offline for a week because the computer didn't work...

cheers, frank
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: Badger on June 25, 2007, 05:31:42 pm
Looking forward to the finished product, looks great so far,  Steve
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow
Post by: medicinewheel on January 31, 2008, 08:47:44 am

in 2007 i finished ten bows; considering i travelled for two full month in 2007 that makes one bow a month; and i was happy with all of them! some project i started ended up in the oven helping to heat the workshop  :-\ - oh well, i'm sure most of you...naaah, probably all of you had that happening, too!
but i also started many projects and never found the time to finish them: this beautiful piece of osage is among them and i'm up to finish it now!

all you osage experts please speek up:

the bow will be pulled to 29" and should have a 60-65 poundage; right now the bow is 69" ntn, 1 3/4" wide at the tapes bending nice and even from 3.5" reflex to straight limb at 25#.
later in the tillering process i may flip the tips a bit, mostly for the bow's sexyness...  :o :o :o

i might shorten the bow by an inch on each limb in the process.
what do you think of the width, can i / should i go narrower at the fades??

thanks,

frank





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Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: GregB on January 31, 2008, 09:38:33 am
Frank,
I think 1-1/2" at the fades would be fine...1-3/4 might be a little overbuilt. :)
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Pappy on January 31, 2008, 09:41:32 am
Looking good so far,I love the snake,you could go a little narrower if you like.I make most 1 1/2 to 1 5/8 I know you can go narrower than that but I just like the looks of a wider bow,not all that concerned about high performance.It wouldn't hurt to cut it down a little,it looks like a quality piece of Osage so it should handle that draw length.I like to flip the tips also it speeds them up some and seems to make them a little smoother.Keep us updated. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2008, 11:18:18 am
       That bow is looking very good, I have been using wider demensions the last couple of years with better results. Steve
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on January 31, 2008, 01:37:44 pm

for now i stuck with 1 3/4" ; i'll might reduce during tillering!

have it at low brace right now, and seems fine; i don't really know about the marked part on right/upper limb. that's the one that had a bit more reflex and where marked the limb flips up a bit. it feels alright for now; being very carful there, bit afraid to get a hinge if i reduce to an even bend at this state. what do you think??

i by now lost one inch of reflex (pulled to 18" so far); what do you heatgunslingers think, should i heat-treat the belly? induce bit mor reflexß? flip the tips??? quit bow-making?????



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Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2008, 01:43:01 pm
I think I would use the heat to take the kink out of that limb and slightly flip the tips just to make it sexy and pick up a little umph. Steve
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on January 31, 2008, 01:46:22 pm

sounds like a plan! - dry heat for flipping the tips??
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on January 31, 2008, 03:45:30 pm


well, what can i say: I DID IT !!! -... now i'm scared   :o

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Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Woodland Roamer on January 31, 2008, 04:26:48 pm
Your "tip flippin" looks great to me Frank, looks like you're going to have a really nice bow out of that one!

Alan
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on January 31, 2008, 05:42:59 pm

yes i'm happy with it so far; had a really good day in the workshop today...
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Badger on January 31, 2008, 05:45:25 pm
  Frank, you did have a good day in the workshop, that bow looks downright dangerous!! Amazing what just a little more work can do sometimes. Steve
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on February 01, 2008, 04:16:11 am
thanks steve!


PS: WOW that draw weight went up dramatically from tempering the belly and flipping the tips!!!
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Pappy on February 01, 2008, 06:59:44 am
Looks good to me.That is just the way I do it,at 18 or 20 put it back on the form and heat treat it and if I am going to flip the tips I do it then also,seems to work out good for me and I am sure it will on that one.It looks great.It is amazing what a little heatgun work will do for one.Keep us posted. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on February 01, 2008, 07:19:15 am

thanks pappy!  -  now i slowly work my way up to brace hight, but everything seems fine so far!

frank

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Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: AndrewS on February 01, 2008, 07:45:37 am
Looks very good....waiting for more pics ;D
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: a finnish native on February 01, 2008, 09:11:33 am
you do a lot of sleeping in the shop? :D nice dreamcather. and bow also.
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Hillbilly on February 01, 2008, 09:25:42 am
Frank, that's looking better all the time. I do believe you're going to wind up with a nice'un.
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: GregB on February 01, 2008, 09:27:51 am
I concur with the other guys...lookin' very nice! :)
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Pappy on February 01, 2008, 11:09:38 am
Frank I thought you already had it to brace and out to 18 inches, ???I must have miss understood,anyway it is looking good. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 01, 2008, 11:22:16 am
Looks good, Frank. I'd tell you to take your time. LOL. But I looked at the date of my last post. :)Jawge
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Ryano on February 01, 2008, 11:29:46 am
Nice looking bow frank. Did you end up cutting it down any? I would think you will end up with some hand shock with osage that long and wide.....I've goten so I rarely make a osage bow over 64" ntn, because of this.....Good luck. Ryano
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Justin Snyder on February 01, 2008, 12:30:39 pm
Looks great  Frank.  I love the profile now that you heated that baby up.  Justin
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on February 01, 2008, 08:55:11 pm

thanks everybody for the replies!

ryan: i didn't shorten it yet; i mean i'm going for a 29" draw. well i'll sure narrow the bow, especially the tips.

pappy: i had it at 18" yesterday, than heat-treated the belly and flipped the tips and it became a lot stiffer; didn't have much time this morning, just had a look and took the photo...

fin: i knew someone would ask that question when i realized the dream catcher was visible  ;D ;D ;D that was one of my firstones, they nowadays became a lot fancier. right now i'm doing one with a loop out of reindeer antlers...

jawge: i know i'm slow...  8)

thanks again!
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Ryano on February 01, 2008, 10:04:55 pm
Thats cool Frank, hope it works out for you. I've made unbacked Osage bows 58" long that draw to 29" with out a problem. It's very dense resilient wood.  ;D
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on February 02, 2008, 05:18:57 am

ryan i know it's absolutely no problem for the wood, but hey a short snakey bow with flipped tips ...it's only my third or fourth stavebow ...and i blew an osage recurve a year ago while tillering; the wood is REALLY expensive over here...  ;D
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on February 26, 2008, 01:40:22 pm
had to make a jig to evenout the reflex. still after that my lower limb was a lot stiffer at same width and thickness. but now i guess i'm fine. her is the stubborn lady braced and at 26" pull. - the marked area i believe needs a bit more bending. what do you all think?

at the moment i have a really light lower limb and a really dark upper limb on the bellyside. - would it make sense to heattreat the lighter limb right before sanding??

thanks for watching again, really appreciate your help!

frank

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Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on February 26, 2008, 01:43:20 pm

ps: i'll probably pike her by two or three inches when the tiller is finished. - how much draw weight will that add?? (she'll end up at lower 50s)
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Pappy on February 26, 2008, 01:55:09 pm
Looks like you have the tiller figured about right,where you have the right limb marked.Usually it will add about 3 lbs. per. inch,at least that has been my experience.Flipping the tips and heat treating will add at least 5 or 6 lbs. Looking good. :)
      Pappy
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on February 27, 2008, 11:05:22 am

thanks pappy! had a few more strokes at that area and really became better; getting more and more excited about this, wish i had more time to finish the bow! ...but soon anyway...

pappy, do you think more heating would harm the bow??

do you think if i shorten the tips i could possibly flip them a bit more???

thanks again, frank
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: cowboy on February 27, 2008, 11:20:00 am
Man, just read through all this Frank. That has turned into one fine looking bow! I believe Hillbilly's right, your most likely going to get a goodun out of this :). Can't wait to see the final outcome..
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Pappy on February 27, 2008, 12:08:12 pm
I don't think it would,I usually don't heat treat or flip the tips till I am out to 18 -20 inches of draw anyway.I straighten and put in some reflex before I start tillering and then the tips and heat treat
at 18-20 or sometimes at about full draw before it is shot in..Seems to work fine. :)
    Pappy
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on February 28, 2008, 06:42:49 pm

the lady gained some weight...

piked the bow by two inches (66 ntn now for my 29"pull) and flipped the tips some more which worked out great; this i did yesterday in the evening.
today i braced her to check the tiller a bit and see how the string lays and i'm totally amazed how the limbs just never go sideways eventhough there is quite some snake in the upper limb and the string is beside the limb a bit right at the upper nock (ryan i guess you are right: osage IS better  ;D ...) (...and pat is right, too: the snake should be in the upper limb, so you can look at it!).
so i pulled and scraped for an hour and got her to 26" where she has 52#. 3" more to go and she should be right around 60# hoping to end at 55"-57" after shooting her in!

that part mid of right/upper limb still looks stiff but it has serious action when i pull the bow. probably rather leave that alone.

any comments??

thanks for watching, frank

ps: the pull on the picture is about 25"

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Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 28, 2008, 07:02:18 pm
Very nice Frank. You did an excellent job on that bow. How does it feel in the hand when you pull it back, does it pivot back and forth or does it stay steady?
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 28, 2008, 07:07:45 pm
Applause! Well done! Jawge
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: DanaM on February 28, 2008, 07:57:28 pm
Looks great frank love the profile. I have 2 osage staves now ;D Can't wait to try one of em 8)
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Ryano on February 28, 2008, 08:59:02 pm

 (ryan i guess you are right: osage IS better  ;D ...)
See I told ya !  :P  ;D  :D  ;)
Nice Job Frank!
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: cowboy on February 28, 2008, 09:04:17 pm
Was it me - I'd go no further! That looks perfect :).
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on February 29, 2008, 02:57:38 am
hey guy!  -  thanks for the comments!
i'm really pleased with the result and i became more and more confident while i was working on the bow (which was a loooong time  ;D ;D ;D  )
mark, the bow doesn't pivot; felt stable basically through the entire process of tillering after a certain balance was reached.

will pull her a bit further and than form out the handle and shoot her in!

thanks again, frank
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: Pappy on February 29, 2008, 07:30:45 am
Looks good Frank,very nice tiller job. :)
    Pappy
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: medicinewheel on February 29, 2008, 10:52:23 am
thanks pappy!

this is so funny: i'll be doing a workshop and concert with a local big band beginning tomorrow and that lady came by for an interview for a cologne newspaper. i had just started shooting the bow in, and we ended up with an interview about my bow-making. i'll get famous, i guess... and rich...

had the bow at full draw and shot about a hundred arrows through her! she's a shooter and a REAL pleasure!!! really snappy bow!

frank
Title: Re: my first osage selfbow / question ...
Post by: AndrewS on February 29, 2008, 12:51:28 pm
That looks very good.

Now waiting for the finished bow pics ;)