Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Weylin on June 19, 2011, 12:31:38 am
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On a recent shooting excursion with some friends we cut a nice vine maple stave. I plan to make a bow for my father as a welcome to Oregon gift. He will be moving from Wisconsin out to Oregon to be closer to my wife, son and me. He's always shot fiberglass recurves but he's really into primitve skills in general so I think he'd enjoy a selfbow. I had to trick him into giving me his draw weight and length in the context of a larger conversation about archery over the phone without him knowing what was up. Here's the stave right after being cut and then some pics of it after I reduced it with my hand axe, stripped the bark off and sealed the ends with glue. After it dries for a couple months I'll get to work on it and give some more updates.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/018.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/016.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/020.jpg)
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(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/021.jpg)
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That should make a great bow for your Dad. Lots of character like him I bet. ;)
Where in Oregon are you? Oregon is one of my favorite places to visit. My sister lives in Beaverton and my wife and I have driven around the NW 1/4 of the state on a couple of visits out there.
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You couldn't ask for a better wood to make him one. I'll bet he'll enjoy it. When he decides to give up those nasty glass bows, email me, I can help. :D
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Yeah he's definitely a character. Oregon is really a great place, I live in Portland, which is right next to Beaverton as I'm sure you know if you've been here. There are a lot of great bowyer's out here, I'm just starting to get in touch with some of them.
@ Mullet, thanks for your generous offer to take those off his hands, I'll send him your way when he's ready. ;)
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Keenan and his wife Lulyn are in Bend. Great folks! Gordan lives in Beaverton and don't forget Ted Fry in Hood River.
Usually when we fly in we go directly to China Town for dim sum to help wind down from the trip. ;D
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Nice, I'll have to try the Dim Sum. Gordon was the one who helped pick out and cut the stave, actually. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting the other people you mentioned but I did get to work with John Strunk in Tillamook for a whole weekend. That was awesome.
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You did a nice job debarking and reducing the stave. That's going to make a very nice bow.
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Thanks Gordon, I've got a good feeling about it. It is pulling into a fair bit of reflex as it's drying, should I be concerned about that at a certain point or will it be easy to tame that down when it's time to build the bow?
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I'm really looking forward to this build. I love the look of the pristine back after peeling of the bark like that. So much easier than chasing a ring. That reflex that it's pulling into should make it a real screamer!
John
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Weylin, vine maple is reaction wood so it will pull into reflex as it dries and there is not much you can do to stop that. But with careful tillering and patience it can be tamed.
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I agree I am looking forward to updates
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Ok, it's been drying for a couple months so I went ahead and chopped it down to rough bow dimensions with my hand axe. On the advice of Gordon I'm going to give it another month or so before I reduce it more and start bending it but for now here it is roughed out. It's taken a hint of reflex since it started, ;) it was pretty much straight when I cut it. I'm looking forward to seeing what kinda bow I can make out of this.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/004-1.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/003-1.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/005-1.jpg)
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(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/002-1.jpg)
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Weylin your stave looks like a good one, but it will probably pull into a little more reflex by the time it is dry.
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Looking good! Keep it up!
Josh
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Weylin, I applaud you for making a bow for your father! My father got me interested in archery when I was a pre-teenager. He became an archer when he picked up an English long bow serving in England during WWII. How I wish he were still here to shoot with me. It's coming along well. I'm sure your father will love it!
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dang it weylin..i am missing oregon all ready and this aint helping....i showed my wife the pics of your bow and she said that i could just go to the storage shed...its just not the same...LOL...great work on the stick and i bet it will have some snap with the reflex....later john
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Thanks for the encouragement fellas :)
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This will be very interesting Weylin. Looking forward to seeing your progress.
Cheers....... Rod
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That is looking good so far,can't wait to see it all finished up. :)
Pappy
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Alright, I've been slowly scraping away at this guy for awhile now with my sorry little tool collection and I feel like it's coming along well. It had a twist in one of the limbs. I steamed it and managed to wrestle out most of the twist with a ridiculous looking, jerry-rigged set-up. I'm bringing it close to final dimensions and starting to bend it. I have two main questions at this point. There is a little more than 5" of reflex that I'm dealing with right now and I'm not quite sure how to factor that in to my tillering process. I'm assuming at least some of that is going to naturally disappear during the tillering process as I bring the bow down to final weight. But in the meantime, should I be accounting for it in anyway? I'm not even sure exactly what 'm afraid is going to happen. Maybe that I will take off too much wood and when the reflex gets pulled out I'll be left with too light of a bow. Is that a valid concern?
My second question is about several big, gnarly bumps on the back of the bow. they add a considerable amount of thickness in certain spots and some of them have knots under them. I've been leaving them a bit thicker for now just to be safe but I'm sure they are making those areas of the limb quite a bit stiffer. should I take more off the belly in those spots to bring them to a comparable thickness to the surrounding areas or should I leave them thick because they are a liability? here are some terrible pictures that will undoubtedly perfectly illuminate what I am trying to describe ::) (http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/DSCN4184.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/DSCN4206.jpg)
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(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/DSCN4203.jpg)
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I sure do miss Oregon I use to live in Enterprise NE corner of the state. I would love to get some of that VM I do have a order in with a friend that lives on the coast. Here in Canada lots of Serviceberry (Saskatoon) that I think will be a good runner up. Good luck to you on your build, it looks like you got a good start and some good advice. Take care, Chuck
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looks really good...are you at floor tillering stage...john
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Yes, I'm floor tillering as well as using a longstring. I have this great set-up in my apartment where I clamp the bow handle on the edge of the kitchen counter with the belly facing me, then I put the long string on the bow and around my backside. then I can push back with my butt to bend the bow while my hands are keeping the loose countertop from sliding off the counter. The end result is alot of pelvic thrusting right by the patio window. I'm surprised my neighbors haven't called child services on me yet. :o ;D But hey, it works and I can clearly see the bow bending while I'm doing it. My wife just shakes her head and walks into the other room. I'd say that I have the bow bending about to the point that it is straight, keeping in mind that it has 5" of reflex.
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Weylin, that is looking really good, Just go slow scraping. You will hit a point where it will suddenly relax slightly. I have one that I worked yesterday that is a twin to yours. Except mine has even more reflex. I braced and even shot it some yesterday and keep waiting for it to relax but so far it is still holding about 5" of reflex ::)
As far as the knots they shouldn't be a problem. You can run with a flat belly as you have and it will add a little excess mass and slow the bow slightly or carefully work the area under the knot to a consistant thickness with the rest of the bow and leave them just slightly stiff while tillering. Just be carefull you don't make a hinge in those spots.
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Thanks everyone, and thanks for the advice Keenan. I'll keep scraping away then. That was my instinct about the knots, I just needed some reassurance I guess. I'm excited to see this bow turn out. my dad arrives in oregon in a couple weeks, I might even have it ready for him.
I'm thinking about trying my hand at tip overlays on this bow. I picked up a scrap piece of ebony at the woodworking shop yesterday. has anyone used it before? is it a suitable wood for an overlay?
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I've never worked it, but a friend of mine is a woodturner and he says it's pretty hard wood. I bet you could make nice tip overlays out of it! It would certainly stand out in a dramatic way against the pale vine maple!
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Welin, I agree what Keenan says.
I helped a friend with ebony tip overlay once and they turned out great.
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Here is what mine is looking like Weylin. I'll try to get you some braced and draw pics tomarrow
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c326/bornagainprimitve/IMG_0168.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c326/bornagainprimitve/IMG_0169.jpg)
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Whoo, that's skinny. Makes me realize how much more scraping I have to do. I always get like this when I start bending the bow. I start getting slower and slower (which is probably a good thing) but I do it a little too early and end up taking ages before I even get it braced. It probably doesn't help that I scrap for 10 minutes and then play on the computer for an hour. Thanks for the pics, I'd be glad to see more of your bow, it looks great. what did you use for the tip overlays? And thanks for the input Gordon. If Gordon and Keenan agree on a plan of action how could it go wrong?! ;D
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Weylin, This one is fairly light. It will probably final in around 52 at 27" I started it last spring for the bow swap but knew it was going to be to light for the recipient. I think it is around 66" long
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Ebony does not glue well with standard wood glues ( its kinda oily )
A tip overlay will probably be OK if its degrease with a cleaner like acetone
Epoxy might be a more sure thing
Just food for thought !
The bow is looking good !
I like slow and easy !!
Guy
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Thanks for the advice, Buckeye Guy. I was planning on using a 5 minute epoxy, hopefully that will do the trick. Gordon, what did you use when you did the ebony overlays?
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Weylin, I use superglue gel for all of my tip overlays and I have never experienced a failure even with oily woods.
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Want to see the wonkiest set up imaginable for taking out twists and turns? look no further. I still can't believe this worked. Well, I'll see how well it holds tomorrow night when i bend it again.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/DSCN4278.jpg)
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Hey..whatever works to get the twist out as long as its out when done is all that matters...and I've seen and done wonkier things than that to take twist out. :) :laugh:
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I'm really frustrated! I've been going excruciatingly slow, exercising the limbs as I go and everything seemed to be bending fairly evenly. Now as I work on the bow tonight it has rapidly relaxed on me and seemingly lost alot of weight. But even worse than that, the top limb has completely over powered the bottom limb. It's clear now that I need to take more off the top limb to alleviate the pressure on the bottom limb and both limbs need to bend more in the fades. But I feel fairly certain now that if i do all that I'm going to come in sorely under weight. The top limb has been hard for me to interpret because of the significant kink in it and clearly I've overestimated how much work it is actually doing. Now that I've finally gotten the twists out and reduced it to an appropriate weight to brace the bow the tiller seems hopelessly jacked, so much that I dare not string the bow. I definitely need to call it a night and come back at it with a clear head but my gut tells me that I messed this one up beyond redemption. Which is depressing enough by itself but even more so considering that my dad finally sold his house, packed up his stuff and hit the road for Oregon. He'll be here on Saturday and this was supposed to be his welcome to Oregon gift. :-\ Oh well, it is what it is.
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I feel your pain...but I also feel your fathers joy. As a father of 4 lil ones myself,anytime they make an effort to make me something,or draw me a picture im thrilled to death and happy despite how ugly it is or if it turned into a failure....and im sure your father will feel the same and be very proud of his son....its the effort and thought that counts ;)....besides you can always make another one if this one doesn't work....I know he'll understand and be thankful to have a son like you. ;)
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Do you havea picture of the bow being drawn? Even if it is a long ways under draw weight it will still be a great gift! You put allot of time into it and that is what counts, you can also show him this thread so he can see the process you went through to build it. Im sure its not a tottal loss :-\
Josh
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What is the length of the bow? Maybe you can add some pounds by cutting a few inches off the tips? Don't give up!
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Weylin, if you want you could bring it over and we can take a look at it. It might not be as bad as you think. And I have more wood here if you really do need to start something new. Let me know.
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Thanks for the advice, and encouragement Blackhawk, Josh, and CMB. And thanks for coming to the rescue Gordon, I will most certainly take you up on that offer. PM sent. I'll make an update after my bow gets some CPR from Gordon.
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Can't go wrong taking a visit to Gordons ;)
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Good for you Gordon! That is what I love about this site. Everyone helping each other when they can. If anyone can save a bow, Gordon is one of the best there is with VM.
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If you need, I have this VM that I am working on, shooting and to ready to be finished. What is his draw length and poundage you are shooting for? I know you want to make it yourself and I admire that Yet I know how time crunches are and you could still do the finish and handle wrap.
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Wow, that's very generous of you Keenan. It is really not as big of a deal as that though. My post was a bit on the melodramatic side because I was really bummed out at the time but now that I've had a couple days to process I've realized that it is what it is. My goal is to make this one into a shooting bow even if it is grossly under weight. worse comes to worse I can give it to an 8 year old that I know who is getting into archery. My dad got here this afternoon and I showed him the bow. I guess it will have to be one of those "it's the thought that counts" deals and I will make him another one later if we can't salvage this one. I have 2 yew staves drying out right now and my dad brought out 3 yew staves that he cut 30 years ago to give to me. So between all of those I'm sure I can make a bow for him sometime soon. I'll find another vine maple stave to cut and I'll give it another shot next year. I think I was just too inexperienced to see what the wood was telling me as I was scraping and pulling. Hopefully I'll learn something from it.
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Good deal Weylin. 30 year old yew. Wow. With that definitely give me a shout when you start in. Yew that old should be great ring count but may need to hydrate slightly. It can sometimes get brittle when aged real long.
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Well, after 5+ hours of work with Gordon we got it bending evenly and added some reflex to gain back some weight. It was looking pretty good and my hopes were up. Today I tried to put it on a shorter string (with a 3" brace) and CRACK, it snapped about 6" down from the tip on the lower limb. I really learned alot from making this bow, I'll just have to make another one for my dad. Thank you Gordon for the help, I think you gave that bow the best chance it had to survive, we definitely bent it further on the tree with the long string than I bent it while stringing it. It must have just been the different string angle or something. Clearly it was going to happen sooner or later so I guess it's better that it happened then instead of when I was shooting it in. I'm already on to my next project, which is rescuing an old yew longbow that my dad started decades ago and never finished. It needs a little TLC, we'll see what I can do with it.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/DSCN4327.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/olivewn/DSCN4328.jpg)
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Bummer that she didn't make it but glad to hear that you are on the horse again. ;) Post pics and ask as much questions as you can. Watching Gordon work will give anyone a good training session. ;)
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Man that sucks but thats the nature of the game we play I guess. Did you give the bow a while to rehidrate after heating in the reflex? If not that may have been the culprit behind the break but who really knows it could have been something hidden? :-\ Well look forward to your Yew, I hope you have better luck with that one, we will keep our fingers crossed!
Josh
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its a bummer.BUT grab anther one and keep on trucking....it does happen but thats how you get good...john
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I was concerned about that spot being a little thin, but I thought it was close enough to the tip that we might get away with it. Oh well, lots more vine maple out there.
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O that's to bad. :( :(
Pappy
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bad luck.....!!! try again..after you got over the trauma