Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: osage outlaw on June 13, 2011, 11:55:54 pm

Title: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: osage outlaw on June 13, 2011, 11:55:54 pm
For the life of me, I can't make a good bowyers knot.  It looks like such a simple knot, but mine always loosen, or twist in the string grooves so the string isn't centered with the limb.  This is really aggravating me.  I feel I am a halfway smart individual.  I have been tying my own shoes for several years now.  I should be able to figure this out.  When I am tillering a bow, I tie loops in the string at one end.  When I am ready to shorten the string, it takes me forever to get the loop undone so I can tie it shorter.  I spend more time messing with the string than tillering the bow.  I have 4 bows ready to tiller so I want to figure this out.  Can someone please take some detailed pictures with directions.
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: JW_Halverson on June 14, 2011, 12:01:08 am
Ditto!
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: jham on June 14, 2011, 01:04:31 am
Im not sure right off which one it was but there is a video on youtube that shows very clearly how to tie it, will try to find it and post the link after the kids are asleep.
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: MWirwicki on June 14, 2011, 01:15:12 am
Try these two pics.  Knot1 then Knot2.  These two steps work for me.  If they don't hold for you, then add Knot3.  What I also do is swing the tail end to the back of the bow so that it is pinched between the bow back and the first loop from Knot1.
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: sharpend60 on June 14, 2011, 02:01:23 am
Dress the knot around the nock.

Tie yer knot.
Then align it and pull tight. Not the tail, the working end.

Adjust, then pull er tight again.

That aught to do it.
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: jham on June 14, 2011, 04:13:33 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2ooh-uT6GQ&feature=related

here is the video I mentioned earlier, hope it helps
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: M-P on June 14, 2011, 04:39:13 am
I've had some strings tied on with a bowyer's knot work the first time and remain solid for years.   I've had others that seemed to slip, little  by little.   And, a few that start slipping right away.   I'm not sure what the difference is, but my observation is that linen has a more secure bowyer's knot than B50.   Thicker strings seem to slip less often than thinner ones and there can definitely be too much wax.
I've taken to using a different knot if there's any slipping.  I take two turns around the bight and then lay the tail along the loop.
Ron
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: Grunt on June 14, 2011, 10:25:09 am
Google up Timber Hitch.
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: crooketarrow on June 14, 2011, 11:20:17 am
  Along time ago I just started useing longer strings. I dosn't have to be any sertin lenth as long as it's long than the bow. Tiller until a brace string will fit(short string).
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: osage outlaw on June 14, 2011, 12:09:51 pm
Thanks for the help.  I'm going to watch the video and study the pics before I head out to do some tillering.  I have a family 4 pack of bows to work on.  One for my wife, daughter, son, and of course one for me ;D
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: osage outlaw on June 14, 2011, 07:03:47 pm
I got it ;D  Thanks for the help.  That makes tillering go much faster. 
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: John K on June 14, 2011, 11:19:00 pm
What Grunt said...i love the Timber Hitch/Bowyers knot it's all i use now  :)
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: Pat B on June 15, 2011, 02:27:47 am
A bowyers knot on a B-50 string is all I've used for years. Sometimes it slips but usually once a string is broken in it holds fast. Too much wax can help it slip too. You need enough wax but not too much.  ;)
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: dwardo on June 15, 2011, 09:13:49 am
For long string tiller have started to use a loop at each end a double truckers knot in the middle. Sound complicated but its pretty simple. It keeps the long string tight and is much faster to undo/redo. Will post a pic if anyone wants to try.
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: hillbilly61 on June 15, 2011, 10:31:01 am
No mater how much I try, I too have the same problem. :-\ Gonna watch the video after while. Then try the truckers knot, which sounds like a good idea. ;)
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: markinengland on June 15, 2011, 05:29:50 pm
In my opinion/experience it makes a difference which way round the knot is made, in the same way it matter which way you twist when making a flemish string. Make the knot so the string goes back upon itself against the twist in the same . I find it helps to overtwist the very end section so you can see which way it wants to go.
Also I find it helps a lot to wind the loose end round the loop all the way round and then position it so it lies under the knot.
It is this binding to itself against the tension of the twist, the friction caused that holds it together in exactly the same way that flemish twist works.
I find that done this way it tightens up and locks on and with a bit of beeswax literally welds itself together to become one element that never slips but is failry easy to undo.
If it goes wrong gently undo the knot noting which way you formed the loop and wound the loose end within the loop and do it the other way. This should then work!
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: Matt S. on June 15, 2011, 06:18:06 pm
When I was first learning the trade I didn't have any luck with flemish strings and knots, so I went to the endless-loop style string and have never looked back. I have enough spare strings of various lengths making it easy to find one the perfect length for tillering.
I suppose one of these days I should learn how to make this other style of string...
Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: mstrick96 on June 15, 2011, 06:59:46 pm
I started with the continuous loop because it looked easier.  Made a nice, adjustable jig and made up a couple of strings pretty easily.

Then I decided that I needed an adjustable tillering string and couldn't figure out a good way to do it with the continuous loop style, so I sat down and figured out the Flemish twist style.  Made a braided reverse twist loop on one and and then just reverse twisted about 12 inches of the other end for the bowyer's knot.  Dead simple once I figured it out.

I even made one of the Flemish jigs with all the nails in it and have discarded it.  All you need is a roll of B-50 (or whatever) and a knife!

Now, I've dropped the continuous loop altogether.  I LOVE this style of bowstring!!  It's worth figuring out the Flemish twist and the bowyer's knot.

Title: Re: Need help with bowyers knot
Post by: M-P on June 16, 2011, 02:32:25 am
MarkinEngland has an interesting point.   It does seem to me that my knots started slipping about the same time I started 'laying' the tail into the loop instead of going against the twist.     Though an extra turn around the bight , before winding the tail into the loop ended the slipping.   Ron