Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: half eye on June 10, 2011, 11:43:34 pm
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Here's one that was real hard to nail down. Got a life long friend, thats one of them ya been through several life and death situations with, and would do anything for. His name is Cass Landman. Well neither one of us made it out 100% so when he asked for a bow that he could actually shoot, but would still be a deer killer for our upcoming fall deer hunt with one other of us misscreants.
Here's the deal; he can only draw 32# @ 25 max so I knew it would be real tough to make a 32# bow that will shoot min 500 grain hunting arrows flat and with autority. Started with a pyramid shape self bow, with recurved tips and a rigid handle, the bow is made from red elm and was pretty good but came in at 27# and was too doggy for me. So I remembered seeing a bow in the Grayson Collection that belonged to either the Western Ojibwe or the Sioux.....anyway it's shape was a lot like a holmegaard/mollegabet and I figured it had the potential to be really efficient.
The resulting bow draws exactly 30.5# @ 25", self-backed red elm. It's deflexed at mid bow and has reflexed stiff tips. it has an easy smooth draw but real nice speed considering it's low draw weight. It shoots a 450 grain arrow flat at 15 yards, and that same arrow has an average flight distance of 155 measured yards. (I use a Lufkin Rule odometer) The shortest was 150 yards and the longest was 165 yards. Right now the bow is still in the smoked wood stage, and will start the finish tomorrow. Allmostpighunter is sending me some very nice prarie rattler skins which should be here shortly.
I'm sure I forgot something but here's the pics, hope ya like. I'm really amazed at this little bows performance. I'll start with the museum bow. Pics will be marked either 27 or 30 guess ya can figure why? hope ya like and please feel free to chime in with your opinions on performance, or ways to improve it.
rich
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That is a fine looking bow. The tiller is excellent. Well done. Jawge
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Rich, that is just amazing. I don't know a whole lot about the performance parts yet. But I know a flat shooting bow w/450grn arrow @ 15 yrds Is very good. I know the snake skins will look super too.
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Rich that looks like a good bow. And the performance that you are speaking of you can't beat that with a stick. Should kill a deer. Nice work I love the profile and the tiller also.
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Those are nice rich..I especially like the pyramid/holmy (or whatever you wanna call it) with the narrowed handle. What's the lengths of em?
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Truly amazing to get such arrow performance with only 30.5# draw weight. It always amazes me when our ancestors most primitive of creations turn out to be such engineering masterpieces despite the lack of modern equipment and methods. Also a testament to the bowyer to have acquired the knowledge and implement it when the need arises!
Oh yeah, skins shipped... SNAKES ON A PLANE!!!
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those are very nice rich..its really good to see you come to the aid of your freind..john
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ill have to agree thats great flight for a light bow . excellent build he should be happy with that...if not send em south >:D
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Killer build as usual Rich! I love that profile and need to try my hand at one soon. The pics likely don't do it justice (I was blessed enough to receive a number of kids bows from rich for my boys and although he'd likely dismiss them as simply toys they really are impressive. I am taking notes and dimensions and will likely scale one or two of them up for a build for us "grown up."
I am sure your buddy will love it and when it draws warm blood with pause and give thanks for good friends and those who take care of their own. Nicely done Rich.
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Both have sweet profiles and full draws. good on you for helping your friend.
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To get those numbers requires more than just a nice build. It would take an understanding of all the minute parts and each would have to be optimized and coordinated. The execution of the build itself would have to be flawless. Or maybe you are just a lucky old fart ;D.
Either way if I ever really, really need a bow I'm calling you up.
Lane
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Nice background story, great explanation of your design process. Super looking bow.
I hope he likes the bow and he has some success with it.
That's another bow shape on my list....so many bows, not enough hours in the day ::).
Del
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What a test of skill and u naild it.can't wait to see the skins on it.
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great lines on that one Rich, cant wait to see her done, Bub
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Just awesome... I love that full draw. How long is the bow n2n?
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It looks like a deer killer Rich. Nice job.
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Great work and project! It is very simillar like flight bowyery. Match the right weight and the best performer design.
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great stuff rich, i realy like seeing your projects.
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Very nice, Rich. Can't wait to see her all dressed up.
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Fellas here are dimensional stats tec. on the little bow....believe if ya was to "enlarge" it would make an excellent and efficient hunting weight bow.
Bow is 54" ntn, has a mass weight of 11ounces, is 30.5# @ 25" will draw smoothly to 28". will be fitted for a small arrow rest. It has 1/8" pin knocks
rich
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Rich, SWEET...more pics plus a drawing (right up my alley). Did the poundage increase by much at the longer 28" draw? I am curious how one built to the same specs but with sinew on it would perform? Think a guy could get maybe high #40's to low #50's with 3 coarses of sinew? Anyway, great stuff all the way around.
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Lee,
The bow hit's 40# @ 28". About the sinewing.....I dont have a clue cause I've never sinewed a bow in my life. 1/2" to 5/8" belly with 1/8" backer (self or otherwise) should easily reach a tillered high 50's. Or ya could make the limbs wider all the way through and get to the same point.
rich
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Sweet design. Any reason you kept more deflex than reflex?
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;D Very nice He should love it. Friends like u are hard to come by in life. 8)
Katt
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Front profile is gorgeous.
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Everyone; Thanks for the gratious comments.
Ryoon, It has the deflex to aid in a very smooth draw, and the reflex for a little more cast because of the light weight.
Scott, I too was very pleased with the cast. I use that to get a sense of the "power" at hunting range. i.e. 15yards would be 10% of the 150 yard cast figure.....so I figure that the arrow will retain 90% of it's killing power when it hit's a critter at that 15 yard range and with a really sharp 2 blade I feel confident it's capable of a humane kill at that range.
rich
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Great looking bow. I have the same challenge before me. I am trying to make a bow for my son that he can hunt with this fall. he is 14 yrs old. Minnesota requirement is 30# and I measured his draw at about 23" I'd like him to shoot at least 35# but we'll see. I have a short bamboo-maple-osage glued up and going to see if I can make that work. If not I'll maybe have to come back and use your design.
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Beautiful bow!
I hope i will get good enough to solve a problem as elegantly as you did here..that will take some time i guess ;)
Im thinking of nicking your design and multiply measurements with 1.2 to end up with a more powerful bow ...and good looks ;D
/Mikael
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Fellas, if there is anything about the bow that will help ya out yer welcome to it.
rich
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very nice, Rich..... elegant profile and nice design.
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looks great Rich.keep it up,steve
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very nice as usual
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Rich, cool looking bow, your friend should be very happy. Have you had a chance to shoot it through a Chronograph? It ought to be a record breaker with the distance it shot.