Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Blacktail on June 06, 2011, 02:58:48 pm
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at the central Oregon gathering...Keenan had a book about Indian archery...some of the topics in the book was about west coast bows and side view pics...the bows that where shown had very rigid handles..i didn't know that some of the bows from the west coast had such stiff handles...most of the stuff i have seen is bending handle area...i wounder why this is...does any one have pics of west coast bows with stiff handles..i am hoping patrick might have some info on this...thanks john
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Well, dang, that a new one on me. When you see a stiff handle on a California "Indian" bow that usually means the bow was made after 1900.
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Aren't the Modoc bows westcoast and stiff handled?
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I dunno, do you see a stiff handle on any of these Modoc bows?
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O.K. I thought wrong. I have seen boows made by others that called them Modoc, but must h ave been just a stiff handled pyramid bow that someone called Modoc. Nice pics Patrick btw.
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Phew...for a minute there I was sweating... :)
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Patrick, would a bow of this style be tolerant of a knot in/near the handle area...it is actually a raised hump on the bows back but comes out as a knot on the bell. It is a very wide Sassafrass stave that I have scraped down to one ring on the back. I'd love to take a rasp to this hump and smooth out the profile of the bow's back (since I plan on covering the back with whitetail rawhide regardless) but I am not sure even with this backing if it ok to violate the back of any bow on purpose...
Thanks~
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I don't know if I would risk shaving down that knot on the back. You can wrap the handle with leather in a way that will "hide" the bump, I think?
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Thanks Patrick, my gut was yelling the same answer to me ever time I looked at it and considered that idea ::) A handle wrap is a very good idea to help hide the hump, thanks for coming up with the option!
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:)
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WWqihiKo45Q/S9hxskCqIhI/AAAAAAAAAIQ/upyFWKul4S0/s1600/smile_by_dottydotcom.jpg)
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holy cow this took off..o.k. pat if the bows are stiff handle then they are after 1900's...it really got me to thinking if i was doing them the right way...i really raised an eye brow..thanks john
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I know ya didn't ask me but I found some rigid handled Northwestern Costal bows with stiff handles, some from the Bearing Straight Eskimo, and some from the Northern Sioux, and the Northern & Western Cree. The Costal bows are attributed to the Tlingit and the Yupik (western Arctic), and some from the Makah.
I dont want no part of the arguement, but here's the pics. PS: I did not check all the bows but I know that one was collected in the 1800's by an Army Officer.
rich
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a few more
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Thanks for posting some inspiration there Rich..... ;D
West coast style bows rock
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john, I think the book you were looking at was by reginald Laubin, he is a great authority on the tipi. the bows he made did have stiff handles and were not authentic reproductions. look back in PA at Billy's articles from the smithsonian, all the west coast bows as well as the short plains bows, bend through the handle. he has some great photos of the profiles and dimensions as well.
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Rich, all those bows will bend slightly through the handle, even the Eskimo bows. The only possible exceptions I've seen are the Sudbury bow and maybe a few horn bows that were spliced in the handle area.
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thanks dave that sents...because all the west coast bow that i have seen didnt have stiff handle...o.k. i guess i am not going crazy...
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hey pat,while i have you..the pic that you posted of the modoc bows...are they sinew backed..the reason i ask is that they look pritty smooth on the back..i dont know if they have raw hide...some people say that after sinew backing you can apply glue and wood shavings to fill in gaps for a smoother back but i dont know if that was part of THERE way of doing backing or if its a modern way of just looking good...john
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Rich, where have U get this pics from? Is it a net database? Not the amnh for shure.
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John, most of the Modoc bows I've seen up close have sinew backing. The paint job might look clean from a distance but up close you can see the lines of the sinew. One easy way to tell if it has a sinew back (from a distance) is if the bow tips are wrapped with sinew for a good ways down the tip. Self bows don't have that wrapping. It's hard to tell, though, in the photo that I posted.
I've read that some bow makers sanded the sinew smooth before painting but I don't think much was done to the back before painting... other than applying a coat of "clay" to the sinew surface.
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fusizoli,i think it is on the web but where i dont...thanks pat,i will keep that in mind..john
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John, I was giving some thought to your pondering about the side views from that book. It could be that some of what appear to be stiff handle are actually slight bending handles. The trade bow that I am doing for TG is a juniper and if you look from the side you would swear it is stiff handled but it dose bend. Yew is stronger and might be stiff on some of those but I would bet that the junipers are bend through the handle bows.
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So U think is this a right tiller for a modoc style bow?
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5579.jpg?t=1307009359)
It has a very slight bend at the handle.
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Looks good :)
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fusizoli,are you showing off again..LOL..just giving you crap...you have allways done sweet work and the tiller is great on that stick...keenan,i remeber that juniper and yes you right..thats one of the things i have trouble with is photos..i understand more when i see it person or in my hands..you said to gordon at the gathering that i really study bows thats why when i have one in my hands i take my time looking at what a person has done and ask a bunch of questions..john
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Hey fellas,
wasn't tryin to high-hat.....sent a PM to Zoltan explaining that I dont know how to post a direct link here.....but I can attach it to an email (asked for his) but if one of you will give me his.....I'll send the direct link to the Peabody Museum serch collections page. You can look up anything they got bows, arrows, cased set, war clubvs, tommahawks etc etc.
You guys are certainly right about how some bows look stiff gripped but are more like "semi=bending" cause ya can feel the bend coming into the grip....if not all the way through.
rich
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John it was more than a question than a show off ;) but thanks. This made from flowering ash 45ntn 50+# at 24
Thinking about to let the handle working more, may it could be a bit narower to going bend more, but ash like to takes more set as useall so I ve let it as it is. The handle have light set back and going straight at full draw.
I have to learn more from this bows so waiting for opinions :)
Here is a front wiew (the triangular pattern one)
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5576.jpg?t=1306935484)
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This is a great thread and very thought provoking! Some great looking bows as well. I for one would love to see the link on the museum.
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Rich thanks, I have all museum database links may missed some bows (there is a lot) U ve posted here. Will take another look thanks again the info!
ps: Haven't got your PM anyway my mail is fusizoli @
g mail dot com
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So I have to say I ve missed this one before :-[ ::)
http://peabody.yale.edu/collections/search-collections
Here is some more http://www.si.edu/museums/ , http://groups.creighton.edu/sfmission/museum/exhibits/bowsandarrows/signatures.html
and the http://research.amnh.org/anthropology/database/collections of corse
The bad thing is, the therm "bow" is working together with "bowl" in the finders and between thousand of bowls could find some bows :(
cheers
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im not an expert on these bows but i have to say they are my favorite design.thanks for the great pics guys. rich that cable backed bow in your pics is gorgeous.
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HEY fusizoli,just giving you garbage..i love the bows you just posted...what kind of paint did you use on them..john
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Useally I post my bows on the other forum (PP) and just a few here, but this bows was posted in Ken75's Shortbow builders topic.
All of tham painted with natural pigments and coated with wax (that one I ve told to U)
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Hey guys! Reach was very kind and post me the link of Peabody museum online collection so here it is!
http://140.247.102.177/col/default.cfm