Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badger on June 12, 2007, 03:34:28 pm

Title: Ambush bow
Post by: Badger on June 12, 2007, 03:34:28 pm
here is my ABC challenge bow. Banmboo backed ip, 57" nock to nock. 64#@28".  Because of it's short length I tried to get it bending right out of the handle and keep the outer limbs stiff to help with the string angles and no stacking. It was my 3rd attempt before I was satisfied. Shoots relatively fast, no stacking and is easy to brace from any position as required, have left it braced for over 24 hours at a time with several brutal workouts on the tiller tree and shooting inbetween rest periods, bow maintained profile and draw weight. When fresh and first strung the first draw will read 67#, but settles in quickly at 64# and maintains that. Steve

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: marvin on June 12, 2007, 04:06:10 pm
Very nice Steve. Did she have any reflex to start with? It's amazing what that ipe can take.

How did the mass come out? Did it end up where your mass formula would have predicted or does the weight o fthe ipe throw that formula off?
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Badger on June 12, 2007, 04:13:27 pm
Marvin, the ipe or any other wood for that matter will usually fit right into the projected mass just the demensions change. This bow weighs 18 oz, projected mass is 18.5 oz, I deduct 10% mass for backed bows, You might notice I left the boo a little thick, I do that with ipe quite often to help keep the mass down, to me its just like adding a lighter weight core. Steve
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: medicinewheel on June 12, 2007, 04:21:31 pm

COOOOOL!!

frank
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: marvin on June 12, 2007, 04:56:56 pm
make sense.

Did you glue it up with any reflex to start?
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Badger on June 12, 2007, 05:05:20 pm
Marvin started with 1" reflex if I remember right and now has about 1/4" , Steve
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Hillbilly on June 12, 2007, 05:35:11 pm
Steve, that's friggin' awesome. I like the maple-backed-maple one a lot, too.
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: mullet on June 12, 2007, 05:40:56 pm
   You nailed that one Steve.Definately see that bend coming out of the fades,good idea.Glad to see you posting some of your bows.
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: tom sawyer on June 12, 2007, 05:44:16 pm
Very nice, got that Holmegaard-like tiller action.

I like the thicker boo idea,I've held that even a thin boo strip is giving you maximal tensino so more is just spacer and probably on the compression side at that.  Is boo that much lighter than wood though?  I think there's quite a bit of variability, I know one glass bowmaker who selects boo based on density..
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: mamba on June 12, 2007, 06:38:08 pm
Great looking bow,excelant tiller.
  I won't mess with anyone that can shoot that weight.
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: George Tsoukalas on June 12, 2007, 06:58:10 pm
Nice job, Badger. Looks excellent. Jawge
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: GregB on June 12, 2007, 07:06:14 pm

Good looking bow, and interesting design of your limbs. :)
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Marc St Louis on June 12, 2007, 07:07:04 pm
Very nice Steve. You sure that one is easy to brace?
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: DCM on June 12, 2007, 07:14:32 pm
Marc,

;-)
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Stickhead on June 12, 2007, 07:30:57 pm
Looks great as usual, Steve.  Good luck in the contest.
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Roger on June 12, 2007, 08:25:01 pm
Great lookin tiller Steve...I bet you fare well with that one... ;)

R
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: jamie on June 12, 2007, 08:42:05 pm
excellent . i just wish i understood the whole mass thingy.
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on June 12, 2007, 08:46:51 pm
 Iam with jamie, wish I understood also ! ???..........bob
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: jpitts on June 12, 2007, 08:52:03 pm
Beautiful bow Steve.....wow
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: DanaM on June 12, 2007, 09:46:48 pm
Ok I'm suitibly humbled, Very nice
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Justin Snyder on June 12, 2007, 10:19:27 pm
Thanks for posting it Steve. That is an incredible bow. I like the tiller.  Thanks for explaining the stiff tip thing. I am going to build a shorty and the stiff limb concept should stop it from stacking. I like the thick boo concept too.  Justin
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: marvin on June 12, 2007, 11:28:39 pm
Jamie,  Kowechobe and others

Steve's focus on mass is actually pretty simple. Most everyone already does it intuitively but Steve has developed a formula to give more predictable and consistent results. He's removed a lot of the guess work.

The idea is to design and tiller the bow such that there is just the right amount of mass for the intended draw weight. If the limb is not wide or long enough then the bow will be "underbuilt" and start to take excessive set. If the limbs are too wide or long then the bow is overbuilt thus wasting energy moving the limbs instead of the arrow. Balance. It's actually nothing new per say just a refined and quantified way of applying a principle we have already learned.

I'm oversimplifying of course and if I'm off base then I'm sure Steve will come along and explain it better.

Steve, I know you've posted this several times but if you don't mind could you post your formula here again and then apply it to your bow that you've posted on this thread as an example. Walk us through it. How you not only use the formula but how you approach tillering the bow to reach or meet the mass goal that the formula predicts.
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Pat B on June 12, 2007, 11:59:40 pm
Do you figure, ahead of time, the mass weight of a preconceived bow or do you weigh the bow afterwards to see if you built it where it should be?  :-\
 I'm like Jamie and Bob. ???  its a bit over my head...but I willing to listen and learn.  ;)  Pat
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Rich Saffold on June 13, 2007, 12:33:01 am
I think you got a winner Steve. I cant think of what I'd do different having tinkered with that ratio and style a bit. The only aspect will be the humidity/heat where the contest will be judged is much higher than what your bow has been tillered in. but you are over in the poundage so it shouldn't be an issue. The thicker boo backing is the ticket on the heavier bows. Oh one more thing..just say tell the judges its "stained" osage ;) ;D, your name is Dave, and you are from Mississippi! :D

Rich-a little humor is good ( and that is very little)
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: koan on June 13, 2007, 12:55:25 am
Thats awesome Steve! I didnt know you could leave boo that thick,I cant quite wrap my mind around that :D, but obviously it works!....Brian
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Jbell on June 13, 2007, 01:51:12 am
Simply awesome Steve. Wow look at that unbraced profile that is very impressive. How wide are the limbs?

 We could go on and on about the great combination of IPE and bamboo but this bow is all about the man behind the bow. Way to take it to the limit!
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Badger on June 13, 2007, 03:09:55 am
Thanks for all the great response, I will start another thread on my mass project. Steve
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: NOMADIC PIRATE on June 13, 2007, 04:24:04 am
If that bow doesn't get recognition from the contest judges, than something is very wrong.


I guess it's simple Marvin, but I, like others can't even start to understand how it works ::) ::)
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: heavybow on June 13, 2007, 05:11:32 am
Very nice looking bow steve. marlon
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Pappy on June 13, 2007, 06:26:56 am
Very nice Steve,Tiller looks great and the bow is a beaut !!! :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: AndrewS on June 13, 2007, 06:32:36 pm
a nice bow, steve - a real ambush-bow :)
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: bubbles on March 24, 2015, 03:06:50 pm
Any chance we could get the pics back on this thread?
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Sidewinder on March 24, 2015, 03:50:39 pm
+1 on the pics. I'm dying to see it. Did it have inappropriate material written on it or something?
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Pat B on March 24, 2015, 04:04:38 pm
Steve(Badger) is the only one that can repost the pics.
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: bubbles on March 24, 2015, 05:40:52 pm
Yeah, I figured.  I just recently was going through old posts, and heard mention of this ambush bow and I've been having trouble finding pics of any of the bows involved in this contest.
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: PatM on March 24, 2015, 05:45:14 pm
The pics were up for several years on the Bowyers Journal site but that seems to have finally slipped into cyberspace. Most of the bows were just some  variation of a shorter DR bow with minimal flipping of tips.
 Steve's bow  resembled a short classic ALB style. Very straightforward in shape.
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: RT on March 27, 2015, 10:11:29 am
Hi badger can u repost the pics......can't see it any more. Thanks..
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: Badger on March 27, 2015, 11:32:49 am
      I didn't save any pics when I changed computers. I think I still have the bow. I believe it was a stiff handled bow. I will look through my bow pile. The bow was a little heavy for me so not sure if I kept it or not. Very decent shooter.
Title: Re: Ambush bow
Post by: PatM on March 27, 2015, 01:24:58 pm
  Definitely had a deep handle with steep fades. I could sketch it from memory.