Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Lee Slikkers on May 19, 2011, 05:41:03 pm
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Well, with all the bows I've been blowing I figured this might be a good time to see if I could get an ERC to make some fireworks for me ;D
Here is a shot of her after cutting her out and a touch of super glue on the small number of knots ::) >:D (roughly 60+) I'll be dealing with... Hey Blackhawk, pull up a seat and let me show ya how to break one O:)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/TdVkjn9ChbI/AAAAAAAABfQ/2RNI5Mxu8kg/s800/CIMG0788.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/TdVkuiG-zXI/AAAAAAAABfU/TbXMW3rXAho/s800/CIMG0789.JPG)
Wish me luck~
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It ain't luck you need... it's a miracle!!
Just joking man :) looks like a nice bow-in-the-making ;)
Fingers crossed for you...
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Lee,
way cool brother, was gonna post mine but yours is lookin too good.....I made up a hard maple backed ERC (quartersawed heart wood backed with plain sawed hard maple......all recycled from a 60 yr old house.....right now mines in the 60's weight wise and 62" ntn. Havin a hell of a time spinnin that long son of a gun around in the shop, hit about everything in there ::)
rich
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Hey Lee....im watching. ;D. :o. Lots o knots man with more violations than mine and a few knots I see are horizontal to the back. Ouch. Go super slow and pray. And when/if your done hope it looks as good as this
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-04-21_21-48-16_313.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-04-18_19-21-37_397.jpg)
Good luck...your gonna need it
Edit:I took a second look and your hickory backing looks pretty thick. How thick is it?looks like you should thin it down some before you try to tiller. My backing lam was a tapered lam 3/16" in the center tapering to 1/8" before glue up and I did thin it a lil more after glue up and before I started tillering
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I've actually hade more failures with hickory backing's than white oak, I've yet to have white oak fail, Bub
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Hey Lee the last bow of yours that I watched was that bark backed trade bow that broke my hear.
This thing here looks like it could be a booger..good luck ;D
Blackhawk that looks fine man, just fine.
Lane
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lookin forward to this one Lee, how thick is your backing strip?
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looks good, and good luck ;D
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Thanks for all the replies guys! Halfeye, please post yours as I will need some more inspiration I think... Blackhawk, if I can get just one arrow down range with this build I'll be tickled pink (ERC pink ;)) The backing in the pic was about 1/4" but after todays experience with another thicker backed Hick I took this to the planer and ripped it down to a heavy 1/8th - thin 3/16" so we'll see how it goes. I'll keep ya guys posted on how it comes along but if anyone hears a muffled curse from somewhere way off in the night it is likely me with another blown piece of kindling ;D
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Good luck with that, Now if you want ,and I guess you do an exciting blow you can get one with ERC.I speak from experence. ;) ;D ;D Can't wait to see it all finished up,ERC makes a beautiful bow
and are quick,I just haven't had much luck with it,and that's a shame,my place is covered with the stuff. :)
Pappy
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LOL, actually I'd love this one to hold together as I too love the look of ERC but in reality I know I shouldn't hold my breath on this one. 8)
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Good luck, keep us posted on the progress. Like the others said ERC is a tough one, and when it blows. WOW!!! Unfortunately I speak from experience. It can and has been done plenty of times. So stay positive and go nice and easy. Good Luck.
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Thanks Rick, Blackhawk gave me a couple tips today and I have most of the profile work done on the build and was working on floor tiller tonight. So far it's bending nicely and evenly...needs a little more taken out of the mid-limb and handle area as right now the tips are doing most of the work. Will get nocks cut into it tomorrow so we'll see if she's ready for the long string by then or not.
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When I'm feeling poor is when I tend to spend the most money. When I'm blowing up bows is when I go for a really hard one. I like the way you think.
Gabe
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Thanks Gabe, I tend to prefer the "crash coarse" approach to things sometimes. >:D
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Here she is on the Tree. Short-ish string pulling #45 @ 14" (disregard the "extra string in the pic, it's from the bow stringer and I had to leave it on cause at the short string she kept popping the string off but if I kept just a bit of tension on with the stringer while I was drawing on the scale she'd hold her string. I assume it keeps popping cause of the angle and the fact it wasn't at brace height yet, etc.)
From the pics it looks like she is a touch stiffer on the upper/right limb.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/Tdm6ZPDqsSI/AAAAAAAABkE/Vg03vRTmotM/s800/CIMG0823.JPG)
Here she is right after I was finished stretching her out a bit.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/Tdm6m2KO54I/AAAAAAAABkM/8rgeRzTmHak/s800/CIMG0824.JPG)
Doesn't appear to be much follow yet but when I viewing this pic through my photo software (has a grid feature) I could see that the upper/right limb appeared to have a bit more reflex to it than the lower limb does. Any advice on how to chase that issue?
Many thanks~
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Careful...I wouldn't pull it any further till you get her evened up more. Right limb is stiffer and both limbs could get hingey mid limb. For a bend in the handle you need more scraping on both inner limbs and a lil more on outer limb of right limb. As for the slightly more reflexed limb I wouldn't worry about. It s to minute to make any difference and will prob pull out and even up as you finish tiller and shoot it in.
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Here is a quick pic of her at #38 @ 18"...think the limbs are moving better now but looks like I can still loose some belly 6"-8" either side of the handle?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/TdrdflnE4eI/AAAAAAAABk8/qWv1jM3wmD0/s912/CIMG0826.JPG)
Thanks!
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It's lookin' good. You ought to make it. The failures I've had with ERC have all come from tension failure,and your hick back should solve that problem. God Bless
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Dang, and it was going so well...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zLMenuvUp-M/TeQV7B8BNfI/AAAAAAAABrs/YMAB8I26gWk/s800/CIMG0849.JPG)
You can plainly see the culprit of the failure and with 60+ such knots I think it was just a matter of which one and not if... I even had her bending really nicely and pulling 48lbs @ 27" and as I was giving her a final few strokes before starting to work on the cosmetics, tips and finish I heard the tell-tale "tic" that is the announcement of the impending doom.
Guess I should have just made it my wife's bow and it would likely had held at her much lower draw weight. I just got suckered in as I was shooting her in, she shot smooth and right where I was looking. Can't blame a guy for wanting to actually keep ONE of the bows he's made since I have yet to do so. Anyway, may try another ERC again but it will be a few bows down the road I think.
Thanks for following along.
(Oh, and I humbly bow to you Blackhawk...you pulled it off and I could not >:D )
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my next build is gonna be red cedar i think. here's what i got in mind so far: i'm gonna start with a long bow probably 70"+ so the wood will have less stress on it, then i'll use half a log as the stave so it has less heartwood and more sapwood. also too when the tree was felled makes a difference in the winter it will have less sap in it and won't crack so easy and all the sap wont have to dry out of the stave...
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too bad Lee ERC is such a pretty wood. but you can't blame yourself it is notoriously phinicky as well. I did think the hickory backing was going to keep it together too.
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Ouch... :-\sorry lee. I was rooting for ya. Because I had my doubts with all those knots.
And no need to bow to me...im just an average joe who got lucky. That knot does look like a culprit to the mess,but how thick was the hickory and was it thinned down? And was this the same batch of hickory with the kids bow that broke? If I remember it wasn't good wood and too thick.
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my next build is gonna be red cedar i think. here's what i got in mind so far: i'm gonna start with a long bow probably 70"+ so the wood will have less stress on it, then i'll use half a log as the stave so it has less heartwood and more sapwood. also too when the tree was felled makes a difference in the winter it will have less sap in it and won't crack so easy and all the sap wont have to dry out of the stave...
Lonewolf, this was also a 70"+ longbow. It was from a tree cut in early January while the sap was down. For me the only reason I ever wanted to make and ERC bow was because of the stunning colors in the heartwood. If you plan on less or no heartwood I'd almost recommend another wood as most any ERC has knots and sooner or later you'll find one where you wished it wasn't ;D
I wish you luck and be sure to post pics of yours when you start your build. This won't be my last try with the stuff that is for sure...
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too bad Lee ERC is such a pretty wood. but you can't blame yourself it is notoriously phinicky as well. I did think the hickory backing was going to keep it together too.
Thanks bud, I was hoping so too 8)
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Ouch... :-\sorry lee. I was rooting for ya. Because I had my doubts with all those knots.
And no need to bow to me...im just an average joe who got lucky. That knot does look like a culprit to the mess,but how thick was the hickory and was it thinned down? And was this the same batch of hickory with the kids bow that broke? If I remember it wasn't good wood and too thick.
Chris, it was the a lam of Hickory from the same lumber as the Kid's bow that blew. But i really think this time it was the knot at that angle and on the edge of the Hickory lam. When the Kid's bow blew cause it was too thick I took this one down to just a hair between an 1/8" and a 3/16" so I think the thickness was pretty good for the amount of ERC belly. I was also very diligent about hitting every knot with the thing CA glue after each wood removal and/or sanding...but this knot looked a touch "punky" so maybe there wasn't enough hardwood for the CA to saturate and strengthen.
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That sucks Lee. That was going to be a beautiful bow, it happens to all of us though. Good luck on the next one.
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That sucks Lee. That was going to be a beautiful bow, it happens to all of us though. Good luck on the next one.
Thanks bud, 1st busted bow really sucked...kinda getting used to it now ::)
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That sucks Lee. That was going to be a beautiful bow, it happens to all of us though. Good luck on the next one.
Thanks bud, 1st busted bow really sucked...kinda getting used to it now ::)
I went thru a long phase where failure was fast becoming my comfort zone! Here's hoping you bust out of this rut you are in, Lee!
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Lee I know some of you all really like your cedar, but I absolutely hate it. I tried to bend a piece one time and it wouldn't give an inch with heat or steam. I finally put enough pressure on it that it snapped just like your bow did. I vowed to never try another piece of cedar in the same room where I'm building a bow again after that episode.
It just seems like bad karma now. :(
Sorry about the bow.
Can't you work on any of that osage yet?
I'd rather work a green piece of osage than a dry piece of cedar anyday. LOL ;)
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At least you haven't given up yet. That's a good sign and what separates those who make and those who don't and gave up. Id guess you can call it paying your dues. And it looks like your willing to pay the fee. Keep up the good work brother. It'll come and even after that happens you'll still have some break on ya,but it shouldn't bother ya if ya already paid your dues. :)
You definetly have the zeal,patience,and desire to do this,and soon you will be making great bows and even be helping others out one day too.
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That sucks Lee. That was going to be a beautiful bow, it happens to all of us though. Good luck on the next one.
Thanks bud, 1st busted bow really sucked...kinda getting used to it now ::)
I went thru a long phase where failure was fast becoming my comfort zone! Here's hoping you bust out of this rut you are in, Lee!
Thanks JW, as long as I'm out of "this" rut and have built a shooter by the real Rut I'll happy as a pig in mud 8)
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Lee I know some of you all really like your cedar, but I absolutely hate it. I tried to bend a piece one time and it wouldn't give an inch with heat or steam. I finally put enough pressure on it that it snapped just like your bow did. I vowed to never try another piece of cedar in the same room where I'm building a bow again after that episode.
It just seems like bad karma now. :(
Sorry about the bow.
Can't you work on any of that osage yet?
I'd rather work a green piece of osage than a dry piece of cedar anyday. LOL ;)
Thanks Chris, I can't say I'm in love with working with ERC but I do so love the way it looks with a finish on it. Maybe I can just have someone print up a decal/graphic that looks like ERC and stick on the back of a Hickory bow ;D
I am about to start another bow but I need to decide if I want to try a lam build on that caul or try an Osage stave on it...dang, being so new to this I find myself going in a hundred different directions at the same time. I want to build one of everything and seeing all these great bows on here on daily basis doesn't always ease the mind. Good stuff and I'm loving it.
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At least you haven't given up yet. That's a good sign and what separates those who make and those who don't and gave up. Id guess you can call it paying your dues. And it looks like your willing to pay the fee. Keep up the good work brother. It'll come and even after that happens you'll still have some break on ya,but it shouldn't bother ya if ya already paid your dues. :)
You definetly have the zeal,patience,and desire to do this,and soon you will be making great bows and even be helping others out one day too.
Hey Chris, very kind words and I really appreciate the "pep talk". I have no issue paying my dues...loving this stuff to death so far and I'm sure it will only get better once I get through some of the learning curve.
I'll let the cat out of the bag here on this but I'll probably jinx myself by doing so...I was able to salvage a whole whopping 37 1/2" from that ERC bow so I decided to keep messing around with it. I cut pin nocks on it and started tillering it again and last night I had it pulling 37# @ 14" Not sure if she'll keep it up or hold but i'd like to try and get her pulling out to at least 18" Might end up being a fun little Turkey bow yet ;)
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Dropped a touch of weight getting to 17", only 34#'s so no turkey bow but it might be a fun little shortbow to have around the house for strongish midgets ;D
I think the left limb is a touch stiff mid-limb and almost starting to hinge so I'll need to address that now...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VPyRgnfdbuk/TeWR1Ri_NHI/AAAAAAAABs0/ROzzECBQePU/s800/CIMG0851.JPG)
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That a boy Lee... ;D
And yes your right on. Get that mid limb left limb loosened up. Good practice for you and great entertainment for me :D
your right that is a bow for midgets(no offense anyone)
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Oh, and I want to apologize for making everyone stare at the back of my ugly head...yikes! I need to get a full on Tiller tree / grid / pulley system setup, one that lets me stand way back to see the limbs working and keeps my mug out of the frame ::)