Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: 1776J on February 14, 2011, 09:01:47 am
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I wanted to get some opinions,...
I had a small splinter pop up as I was chasing the ring on the back of the stave, right above a knot.
I'm thinking of taking it down another ring, but the rings are actually pretty thick on this stave, so I wanted to ask first before I leap into anything?
What's your educated opinions fellas?
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3892.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3893.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3895.jpg)
Not wanting to waste the time I had I moved along without deciding on the back yet.....
Here we are this evening, and I took the stave right on down earlier to the the general shape and to about 3/4" this on the limbs not including the handle and fades.
I took an idea that many guys here choose to go with, and set it into gear for myself in order to start bending reflex into the tips.
Here's where we are thus far on one limb. I'll let it cool overnight, wrapping it in tin foil to keep the heat in, and see what it looks like in the morning.
Length is 60" )yeah I chose 60 instead of the 62 I was thinking of,..oh well!),.. 1 1/2" at mid limbs....narrowing all the way from approx 2" from end of fade areas.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3909.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3905.jpg)
Had originally wondered about making the bow 62" and keeping another knot in the wood by the one tip, but have since changed my mind to exclude it.
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You mean like this Jason?
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You mean like this Jason?
BINGO!!! :)
That's it.... like that! Haha... Nice "antler" tips!
I suppose all in all it doesn't matter on length other than the added two inches will just lend the bow to flex a little easier when all is said and done?
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Maybe just me Jason, but I think a 62" bow is about the perfect length for a hunting bow. Not to long, and not to short........Art
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Maybe just me Jason, but I think a 62" bow is about the perfect length for a hunting bow. Not to long, and not to short........Art
I guess my mindset on length keeps leaning towards,..
"I'm going to hunt with this bow...can't make it to long..."
I have thoughts of hitting everything around me with a long bow when I draw on a doe or buck!! :o :o
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So any thoughts on that splinter fellas?...
I'm going to be straightening the bow out a little more as well, as the side bend still needs some tweaking to get it lined up a little better than it currently is.
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Is that 'bout 9" from the Tip Jason? You gonna get away with more there then if at mid-limb or closer to the fades.
I would at least go ahead and clean that gouge out and see what you have at this point. Gotta clean it up to the bottom and sand around the edges good. Can't have any abrupt edges. Worse comes to worse, you can later fill with super glue/dust, and if need be, place a leather super glued patch over the area. Then cover w/wrap.
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I guess I'd clean it up first. If it went through the ring I'd chase to another. Jawge
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Is that 'bout 9" from the Tip Jason? You gonna get away with more there then if at mid-limb or closer to the fades.
I would at least go ahead and clean that gouge out and see what you have at this point. Gotta clean it up to the bottom and sand around the edges good. Can't have any abrupt edges. Worse comes to worse, you can later fill with super glue/dust, and if need be, place a leather super glued patch over the area. Then cover w/wrap.
it's 9 1/4" from the tip of that limb.
I'll hit it with some sandpaper, smooth it out and see what's what, then get back to you fellows.
I was thinking maybe just, worse comes to worse, fill with sinew, then do a sinew wrap there, right around the area, and the same on the other limb so it matches, and be done with it?
Then it will be both functional and look good.
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I guess I'd clean it up first. If it went through the ring I'd chase to another. Jawge
Thanks Jawge,...
Yeah I'm hoping its not quite through the ring. I looked at it again and looked at the ring from the side and I think it didn't even go halfway through the right,.. or so it looks.
I'll know better after its all cleaned up.
Again,.. thanks guys
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That close to a limb tip I'd fill it with sawdust and superglue it. I've done that with 2 of the last 3 bows I've made. That will not be a high-bend area.
George
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That close to a limb tip I'd fill it with sawdust and superglue it. I've done that with 2 of the last 3 bows I've made. That will not be a high-bend area.
George
I didn't think it would get much stress there, and figured either the superglue or sinew wrap would work out for me,
but all I could imagine was it being the "one question I failed to ask!"...then finding an irreversible problem down the line! I'd rather ask all kinds of questions, simple or complex and be 110% sure then dive in head first
only to find out I dove into a rock! ouch! :P
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Well, it's wood after all so there are never guarantees. I've been bit more often by flaws I couldn't see than by the ones I could. You can do your best and still fail so there's no sense worrying about it. The flip side is also true, the short bow I'm finishing up has so many flaws it's silly, but the thing just wants to be a bow. That's what makes the hobby so fun, you just never know. If you want to be absolutely sure, the sinew wrap or backing is the way to go. But, you can superglue and watch it. If it begins to lift again you can then wrap it. Lots of options.
Good luck,
George
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Sounds good to me! ;)
Thanks again George!
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[/quote]
I'd rather ask all kinds of questions, simple or complex and be 110% sure then dive in head first
only to find out I dove into a rock! ouch! :P
[/quote]
just remember to grab that rock
it might be knappable :D
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Tim,
have you had your head checked for flake scars latley? >:D
Bevan
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it might be knappable :D
HAHAHA!!!!.....
I will certainly remember that!!! ;D ;D
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Ok fellas...
This stave is frustrating me!!! :P
I put the reflex into the tips and the one tip on the limb that needed straightening is twisting up off to one side a good bit.
Ok,... so I decide,.."We'll just straighten that out!"
So I jig it up, heat it up, (and gentle as she goes), I successfully straighten that tip out...
ONLY TO HAVE ABOUT 1/2" OF THE REFLEX COME OUT OF THAT TIP!!! :o :o :o
So,....I put her back on the jig,... bend the refex back in and,... whatta ya know? Yep, it twists to the side, yet again!
So, I've got that resting, back in the jig, straightening itself out after I heated it up yet again! LOL!!!
Howver, now I notice that there is a slight very thin ridge that has seemingly protruded out from one of the rings on the one side of the stave
where the reflex is about 2" from the very end. This thin protruding line is about 3" long.
What the hell is it?
Anything to be worried about, or is it something common that I'm describing? I'm puzzled.... ??? ???
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A picture would help, Sounds like the rings are separating,hard to tell without seeing it. :) What kind of form are you using,is it full length or just something to bend the tips/end . On a short
form you have to be careful or it will flex to one side or the other as you bend in the reflex. I have had to straighten some several time,I will tell you this, This is no time to loose patients. :)
That's when you really screw up. :) :)
Pappy
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That thin protruding line could be a wind check. They sometimes raise their ugly heads about the time you get done.
Good pics would help.
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Pappy,...Timo....
This is how I am bending the tips.
Clamping down just enough to keep the end stable and secure while attaching a med. sized c-clamp on the other end for a little weight. (not quite a 2 pound c-clamp though!!)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3909.jpg)
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Pappy,...timo,...guys!!.... here's exactly what I'm seeing here that I'm trying to figure out???!!!! ??? ??? ???
I had to get the light to hit it just right to be able to get a photo of it.
It seems/looks to be NOT the ring, but rather the early wood in between the rings that's protruding a wee bit... its NOT an actual crack,.. no cracks can be detected.
Mind you, I still have to sand it to width, as I kept it a little thick everywhere.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH,.. in advance for the help!!!!
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3978.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3977.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3976.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3971.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3970.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3967.jpg)
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Here check this out.
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/crookedbow.html
Jawge
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Here check this out.
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/crookedbow.html
Jawge
Nice build along Jawge,.... (as usual of course ;) )
I didn't see anything like this though anywhere addressed in that build along? Were you thinking these were, "drying cracks" perhaps???
That's the only thing that stood out for me when I looked at that link you posted???
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That is what I call a wind check, or "shake",it happen quite a bit. Basically it is from the tree twisting in the wind, and separating between the early and late wood. One reason I don't use wood that has been pushed over with a dozer, as it is common.
I have let it be and got along ok with it,if it isn't to bad, but often time it will go deeper the harder you work to get rid of it. That could be one reason your limb tip keeps moving oddly.
Not saying this to make you think the bow is doomed, just to make you aware that it can be a problem.
Something to try: Clamp your stave in a vise and try to twist the outer portion of the limb,watch that area close and see if you can see it open up, if it does then you will have to take some measures to fix it. That being removing wood in hopes of getting past it, or heating the area up and giving it some thin super glue,in hopes of it sucking in.
There is also the option of a sinew wrap.
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I would scrape/sand it off and see what happens,I have seen that before,not sure what caused it but don't remember any special problems it caused. :)
Pappy
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Thanks a million fellas!!!!!! ;)
UGH!,... Lord I sure hope its nothing when all is said and done! The last osage stave was wacked out and I hit a dry area with my draw knife and it dug in so bad it ruined the stave! :o
(I had already started getting it down quite a ways in shaping it)
...now "this"!!! YIKES!!!! :o
OSAGE!,...YOU YELLOW DEMON!!! UGH!.... hahaha What next!!??
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I have let it be and got along ok with it,if it isn't to bad, but often time it will go deeper the harder you work to get rid of it. That could be one reason your limb tip keeps moving oddly.
Something to try: Clamp your stave in a vise and try to twist the outer portion of the limb,watch that area close and see if you can see it open up, if it does then you will have to take some measures to fix it. That being removing wood in hopes of getting past it, or heating the area up and giving it some thin super glue,in hopes of it sucking in.
There is also the option of a sinew wrap.
I was just wondering if it was the shaping jig/buck I was shaping it on, thinking maybe the surface of the shaping jig was just "off" enough to make it bend to the side??
Oh and that wasn't there the first time I bent the tip. It only showed up after I had to bend it for the second time....however, I probably mimmicked the wind twist you speak of
by doing what I did in trying to straighten it???? Maybe????
But yeah it wasn't there before....
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Yes, I did. DCM said he thought they were wind checks. They are wind checks. I just changed it. I've never seen anything like that in osage. I had a few BL staves that had them. I super glued and clamped them in this stave. Shoots well. I'd go easy with the reflexing and forcing of that stave. On the bow in the buildalong, that end was already reflexed so I just matched the other end. I almost gave up on this stave but I took a shot with the good old superglue. Jawge
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Yes, I did. DCM said he thought they were wind checks. They are wind checks. I just changed it. I've never seen anything like that in osage. I had a few BL staves that had them. I super glued and clamped them in this stave. Shoots well. I'd go easy with the reflexing and forcing of that stave. On the bow in the buildalong, that end was already reflexed so I just matched the other end. I almost gave up on this stave but I took a shot with the good old superglue. Jawge
Yeah it's weird because what you're seeing in the photos,..well, there aren't any actual "cracks" to be seen there. Its just like a really thin "rib" that juts out from the side for a bit.
There's actually nothing at all to superglue as far as a visual "crack" of any kind.
This was an "ebay" stave I bought.... purchased from "parkerdaze61". Seems to have great feedback and real nice guy as well. Not sure if it's any of the fellows on here?
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Could that be where the forces of the bend pushed wood out to the side? ??? I think I'd scrape both sides of the tips flat near where the anomaly is and see if there is a crack. Putting super glue on the side will help a hairline crach show up. Is that area going to be a working portion of the limb or static?
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Could that be where the forces of the bend pushed wood out to the side? ??? I think I'd scrape both sides of the tips flat near where the anomaly is and see if there is a crack. Putting super glue on the side will help a hairline crach show up. Is that area going to be a working portion of the limb or static?
Well, I had to amend my thoughts that I could still make it a static limb,...
I worked up the other limb to some extent though, (I'll post photos of it to give reference) so it's not quite a text-book non-bending limb though.
I was going to give it some bend, but if its better, I'll leave it on the stiff side instead. Not quite completely static though.
I sanded down the sides to the proper width and nothing shows up. Haven't added any super glue to it yet though. Going to warm it up a little and add some,...see if any cracks show up.
Either way I'll just add super glue, it can only help! ;)
Thanks Pat,.... much appreciated.
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After super-glue.... No cracks seem to appear,..(either that or its to late and I don;'t know what I'm looking at!!??)
I think however, that these limbs will be more a working limb than not,... just as I have set them up thus far having worked up the opposite limb than this one I had super glued.
So much for a static limb,.... stiff, yes,..unbending,... not quite.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4007.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4006.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3996.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4001.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3998.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4002-1.jpg)
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I'm not sure what this could be but I have seen similar raised lines on wood that were nothing more than tool marks. If it's still there after sanding then it could be a problem with the wood
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Jason, normally shake will occur along a single growth ring,not usually within several. I think that looks normal, as Marc said get it sanded the work it abit. If it swells again then you should probly wrap it and hope for the best. The worst case would be breakage, but most likely it will just be a weak spot that will go just so far until it finds it's happy place, then just fix the other end to match it.
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Marc and Tim,...
Thank you very much gents! ;) Much appreciated.
Yes, guys,.. after having sanded it down it looks fine. I worked up the one end to see if there was any issues there that would be brought out and nothing reared its head on me.
I'll be hitting this end of the bow hot and heavy later on so we'll see what we can see with it.
One question regarding "WHEN" to sinew wrap the ends...
Should I get the tips where I want them, THEN sinew wrap and tiller from there on out???
OR...
Tiller it completely THEN sinew wrap the ends???
Thanks
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I would try to finish the tiller,keeping an eye on that bad spot. If it doesn't pose a problem, and seems to be holding, then finish it out. It would be a judgement call as to sinewing the tips or not.
be sure to watch for and more bulging in that area you super glued. If there is, then you can address the problem, but if it ain't broke, then don't fix it. ;D
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I would try to finish the tiller,keeping an eye on that bad spot. If it doesn't pose a problem, and seems to be holding, then finish it out. It would be a judgement call as to sinewing the tips or not.
be sure to watch for and more bulging in that area you super glued. If there is, then you can address the problem, but if it ain't broke, then don't fix it. ;D
Oh ok,.. that sounds good. Basically then, just don't even worry about applying "any' sinew unless visually something shows, then hit it with sinew? Good,.. sounds good.
You fellas are really a big help and your help,... everyone's is GREATLY appreciated!
:)
Have a great President's Day!
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Starting to tiller the osage up. Keeping an eye on the area with small splinter above knot. I filled it with superglue and wood dust.
I may just say to heck with it and just put a small sinew wrap on it.
60" long (shooting for a #50-55 draw at 27".
1 1/2" at widest points,.... which are for about 3-4" past the fades, then steadily narrows to the tips which are 1/2" wide. **(Actually the tips are about 1/2" wide, (maybe a over 1/2") for about 3-4" in length towards the ends)
Sinew on the tips for a 5" long section. (proactive measures)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4027.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4031.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4029.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4030.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4032.jpg)
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Better to be safe. :) Jawge
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Yeah Jawge,... that's what I figured. I'd rather overbuild it... ;)
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Well, it's been a while.
I had put this bow off to the side as I wasn't sure I wasn't to thrilled about how it was turning out. Worked on it now and then. Mainly due to the twist and side bend in the lower limb that, (even until today) just won't come out....and a tiny bit of propeller twist in its body as well.
I tried fixing that side bend, but I gave up (for the meantime that is) and just tillered it up. Got a great deal out of it but not all.
It's 62" long, #47 @ 27" un-backed, with sinew wraps at the last 6" of the ends.
I'll take some photos of it braced, drawn and unstrung.... for now, the main thing I'd like opinions on is the twist and side bend that it has.
Mainly,...
1. Should I just rework it even though its at the stage it is now?
2. Any ideas as to the likely hood of a possible failure of a 62" long, 27" draw at #47 lbs. with a twist and side bend such as that?
(Don't mind the goofy string, I use it to figure out brace height, etc.)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4110.jpg) (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4111.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4113.jpg)
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Here it is at full draw...
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4117.jpg)
Strung...
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4118.jpg)
Profile photos....
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4119.jpg) (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4120.jpg)
I guess it will be fine with that side bend it has in itself,... I guess I was just a little cautious/worried as it is so thin on the limbs.... (tapers out to 1/2" tips.)
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If the string stays on when you shoot it, and it shoots well, I would call it good. I'd watch it to see if anything changes as it gets shot in. I like the full draw picture a lot. Nice job.
George