Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: HatchA on January 31, 2011, 04:59:36 pm
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Ok, so the other night I watched a very interesting program in a series about the age old question of whether women could do some of the more "traditionally manl" jobs around the world. This particular show featured three women that went to South Africa to hunt/cull some of the animals there on privately owned land.
Yes, they used rifles and yes, the worked at night; lamping the antelope but it was still interesting to watch. I've yet to experience the hunt so I was wrapped up with interest!!
The one thing that stood out for me though, was that the guy that gets the contracts for culling was instructing the women to shoot clean, clear headshots for immediate kills.
Now, I know that with arrows we aim for the heart/lung area in the hopes of an easy, calm death but occasionally the animal can bolt and need to be tracked.
My question is about the guy's main reason for insisting on headshots... He stated that if/when an animal is shot and wounded (probably with a slow-killing wound) the adrenalin is released into the bloodstream and it "...ruins the meat..........makes it inedible..." and as the meat harvested from the cull on the show would be shipped to the UK as "venison", nothing less than a headshot was acceptable.
so... I read the stories in the magazines and on here about how some deer manage 20 yards, some manage a LOT more than that before finally settling down to an eternal sleep. I also read about how damn tasty fresh venison is!! My question, I suppose is two-fold: Have any of you ever heard of this example and/or has anyone ever experienced the "difference in taste" that he's claiming is possible??
I hope I'm making sense ^^
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Yes you do make sense and here is my take. I know that adrenaline is dumped into the blood stream instantly up the ocurrance of a frightening event. If you've ever had some numbskull pull out in front of you you know what I mean. I dont think that the short term pressece of edrenaline is that harmful however here in Ga. there is a portion of the deer season that it is legal to hunt deer with dogs I have eaten venison that was chased for exended periods of time and the meat was not very tasty at all which leads me to believe that continued pressence of adrenaline may be more harmful to the taste and quality of the meat.
JMO
Ronnie
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I was always under the impression that it's the lactic acid (or lactate) that builds up in muscle tissue when it's over worked without enough oxygen that sometimes ruins the taste of meat. Another reason to try your best for a clean kill!
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Quite possible like I said jmho I'm not a biologist so I wouldn't actually know.
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Not one of the deer or antelope I have hunted has ever tasted "off". The three legged mulie doe I shot last January was so tough I could't get a fork into the gravy, but she tasted fine.
I shot a doe antelope last year that had a front leg shattered before I first found her. I followed her for an entire day over 7 miles because I couldn't walk away and let someone else's poor shot make her life miserable. She ran in great big arcs across huge tracts of South Dakota prairie. I cut across those arcs closing the distance until I finally got a 150 yd shot at her. The wound was clean, dry, but didn't show much signs of healing. Probably happened the day before. Gutted her and brought her to the nearest game warden. He was also a biologist and a fanatic antelope hunter. We both agreed the wound was fairly recent and not infected or gangrenous.
She hung for 11 days between 34 and 40 degrees in the garage before I skinned her and butchered all but the shot front leg. I kept the shoulder above the shattered leg thinking it would be blended in with other game in sausage. I tried some backstrap chops on the grill and they were superb! Tender, sweet, richly flavored, and not excessively gamey. That whole animal was one wonderful meal after another.
Ultimately I believe it is how the animal is cared for after being shot. Get 'em gutted fast, wash the body cavity as thoroughly as possible with the coldest water you can find, snow works fine too. And I strongly believe in aging venison a minimum of 10 days, 14 is better yet. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
As for the clean kill thing...I can't stand to see 'em suffer. Clean shot or no shot is a good rule to go by. I doubt anyone here would disagree.
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I caught a little flack over running over the big boar hog with my truck. The reason I didn't load it was one, it was too heavy and the other it smelled worse than urine. I called people on the jobsite to see if anybody wanted it, when they found out it was a two hundred pound boar they said no. Boar hogs and the meat can smell so bad when they are fighting, mating and excited(running from trucks) that the meat is unfit to eat.
We hunt deer with dogs here also and I've noticed a more gamey taste like Ronnie.
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I remember dog hunting in the river swamps of coastal SC. The season opened Aug 15 and I was out there each year. Deer run by dogs all day, when shot they were gutted and hung in a screen room to keep the flies off and the temp was 95deg and humidity you can cut with a knife. At the end of the day all of the meat was cut up and distributed among the participants. It tasted as good as any after aging. Like JW, I also believe in aging meat. I used to have an old refrigerater set up just for that. It makes a difference in taste and tenderness. I have eaten meat right off a fresh kill and it was very good but a bit tough.
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Not one of the deer or antelope I have hunted has ever tasted "off". The three legged mulie doe I shot last January was so tough I could't get a fork into the gravy, but she tasted fine.
LMAO!!! :D
As for the clean kill thing...I can't stand to see 'em suffer. Clean shot or no shot is a good rule to go by.
Absolutely agree with that! I realise that headshots with arrows aren't really an option and that the preferred kill-shot is the heart/lung area - I was mainly just questioning his take on "fouling the meat" etc. After reading about the deer being hunted with dogs - it makes me question whether his choice of head over heart really makes that much of a difference because driving around in a truck with 5 or 6 people, a row of spotlights and a few handheld lamps waving about, chasing down the herd as they run around in the dark - that kinda sounds to me like the deer are being agitated and kept active... adrenaline in the system much?? hehehe
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With relatively untrained shooters the chances of a kill with a head shot probably outways a kill shot through the heart/lung area. The head shot would probably be a quick kill or complete miss. A shot in the body can go good or bad as far as the meat producer is concerned.
When I started hunting we never field dressed a deer at the kill site but brought it back to camp and used a skinning post for all the cleaning, skinning and butchering. Even after a deer has been down for up to 12 hours(waiting til morning to search) I never had a bad tasting piece of deer meat if it was aged properly.
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I have shot American Pronghorns laying in their bed and ones that just ran a five mile circle,can't say I could tell any difference in the meat quality. Eastern Montana Antelope are prime meat. Don't know a thing about African antelope except what I have read. Brother-in-law shot a big,swollen necked mulie buck one time over in N.W. Montana.Dropped him clean, gutted him,skinned him and hung him in the unheated shop for 10 days.Weather was coldish,snow on the ground. None of the men could eat it ,it was so rank. ??? The women said it was a little gamey,but not bad. ' Frank
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Thanks for all the replies guys - it's interesting to hear this stuff.
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Mulie buck I got with the bow two years ago had a neck swollen up to 36", bigger than my waist. But I had the chance to age him for 15 days at less than 40 degree temps again. The nieghbors gave me a corn fed whitetail doe shot before the rut that same year. The only difference was the mulie steaks were larger and darker colored. But people I know in Eastern Montana all state with one hand on the Bible and the other on their favorite rifle that whitetail are always better eating than a Mulie. Maybe it's something in their diet.
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When I lived in Colorado, the guys I worked with said the antelope in the NW part of the state were unfit to eat because they ate Sage brush. I think a lot of people believe what they are told, just because they don't know. But if anybody wants some meat from a big, old, Boar Hog I'll save it for you. ;)
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It may come down to individual animals,(even within the same species). I'd just as soon eat mulie as any other.Those forest bucks tend to have a little more flavor,than the wheatfield variety we got around here,but I like it. I've had tough elk,but it has always been mild flavored,(even bulls in full rut) Moose seems to always taste good rut or not.
Around here,store bought beef is the lowest form of meat. The beef producers have managed to make them as tasteless as there is. ' Frank
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But if anybody wants some meat from a big, old, Boar Hog I'll save it for you. ;)
I'll take you up on that, Eddie, heard you'll even "grill" 'em for me! Send me the piece with your front license place imprint!
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I was always under the impression that it's the lactic acid (or lactate) that builds up in muscle tissue when it's over worked without enough oxygen that sometimes ruins the taste of meat. Another reason to try your best for a clean kill!
This. It won't ruin the meat, but it'll sure make it tougher and stronger-tasting sometimes. As someone said, aging it will help. There is a world of difference, for example, in the meat from a bear that you shot from a stand and one that was run all day with a pack of dogs. It'll still be edible ,for sure, but not as good.
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I have come to believe that gamy tasting meat is due to poor field dressing more then any other factor. Years ago i used to gut and bleed out like most rifle hunters due, That is until an old gent scolded me and explained that cutting the gut sac open and wallowing in it was the worst thing you could do. He showed me how to skin and quarter way faster then I could ever gut out an elk. and explained that it is the hair and enzymes and bacteria in the gut cavity that ruin and give the bad taste. Now I skin the up side and lay the hide back (hair down) peal off the the front quarter, back quarter, backstrap, and all the neck meat, on the one side. Bagging it as it comes off. then roll it over and do the same to the other side just the same. What you end up with is a backbone and rib cage with an unopened gut sack attached. No mess, No wallowing in the guts and blood. You can then trim out the meat between the ribs and after that cut through a few ribs, Pull them back and go in for the heart, Tenderloins and liver if you want that,
I watched some show a few days ago and some guys had just shot a moose, He went on to explain that you have to open and get the guts out to cool the meat. I was horrified as I watched him totally contaminate the meat. First of all, The best way to cool the meat is get the hide off. Even if you open the cavity the only part you are really cooling down in the rib cage. The whole time you are doing that the hide is holding the heat on the biggest portions of meat, the hind quarters and front quarters. Those are the largest portions and the best way to cool them fast is skin and separate. As far as adrenaline in the blood stream, My thoughts are is that it happens so fast that only a bullet straight in the brain would stop it and I have never noticed that being a factor anyway. In my opinion, It is poor field care that is the absolute biggest factor in gamy tasting meat.
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I gut and hang my deer asap, i could see on animals like Elk and Moose going the gut less method.
I've never noticed a difference in the taste on the deer i have eaten. I've butchered deer the same day and after hanging for a week, and it's all good ! Now when i worked as a butcher and seen some of the deer people would bring in, i can see where some people would get a gamey taste ::) Bladders still in the deer, heart and lungs still in the chest cavety Mmmmmm good stuff :P