Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: gstoneberg on January 15, 2011, 03:26:02 pm
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Made some progress on another problem stave today. It is the lower sister of a stave that is being worked on by one of the guys in my shop. It has some weather damage and some interesting knots but those 2 checks in the limb are troubling. Worse yet it had 3 places where there were cracks all the way through the limb sideways following a growth ring. I went ahead and took the back to a growth ring and here's how it looks now. The handle almost feels like a recurve grip the way it's shaped. With the checking there I'll have to use a cord handle for strength. Think it'll make a bow or am I wasting my time? I've always seen that cracks which stay inside the bow limb are OK, but I've never worked a stave that had cracks that go clear through the bow top to bottom like this one. Right now the bow is 69" tip to tip but suspect I'll have to pike it to bring up the weight with the limbs so thin.
George
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/rebound_bow-4.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/rebound_bow-6.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/rebound_bow-7.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/rebound_bow-8.jpg)
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personally I wouldn't waste my time with that one. The cracks are to close to the edge of the limb, unless you have enough width to completely remove the cracks, that's destine for disaster.
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I've just finished a 40# Yew ladies longbow which has some great heartwood, tight dark grain but a couple of longitudinal splist.
I've persevered with it and afer a ludicrous amount of time, effort and some cussin' it's shooting fine, it looks gorgeous too :-*.
I've clocked up 150 shots so far, I'll be posting it in a day or so.
I'd say listen to your own instincts, if you have the time and inclination give it a go, if not save it for another day.
As a character bow you can always keep it lowish draw weight, suitable for a lady, a kid or a cat :).
Del
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No sense giving you an answer because I already know you are going to go ahead and try!!!
>:D
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LOL, I think you're all right. I almost tossed it in the trash when I first tried to string it. I first got a tick in the handle on the upper limb side. I couldn't find anything so I kept on and then I got a tick right at that split on the lower limb. I thought about it a bit and went ahead and strung it up. As I looked at it I discovered the smaller split on the lower limb was breaking out to the limb edge. I should've taken a picture, but I was trying to get the bow unstrung as fast as I could. I went ahead and draw knifed the limb narrower, taking out that smaller split. Then I strung it up again. Looks like this:
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/rebound_bow-9.jpg)
You can see the hinge in the limb on the left (upper) about 2/3 out where the worst split through the limb was. It'll be a fight from here on to get that whole limb working and still have enough draw weight to be worth it. The lower limb on the right isn't too bad, but it isn't really bending enough to tell much yet. The big problem I'm having is that funky grip doesn't hang on the bow scale there or on either of my metal holders that fit on it because of the bend. Not sure how I'm going to tiller it. That's assuming it doesn't break as soon as I pull it a little more. There's also deflex in that upper limb making it look weaker than it is. It's more obvious in the unstrung picture:
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/rebound_bow-10.jpg)
I'm probably wasting my time, but John's right, I'm just too curious to leave it alone and yes Del, it may very well be a kids or cat bow (if it's a bow at all). ;D
George
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There's a usable bow in there somewhere, just got to find it. Good luck
Tracy
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good luck with it gst , but i would keep it light that left limb will be a challenge.
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Super glue (or wood glue) and clamp those cracks. I just finished an osage bow with gigantic wind checks. on one limb and that's what I did. Jawge
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Thanks Jawge, I tried clamping and couldn't pull the split sides together so I thought I should avoid the wood glue. I'd been wondering if some superglue and sawdust would be a little insurance. It is setting up as I type.
Have you guys tried toasting an osage bow on the belly to help stiffen a weak spot? I might try that. Even if it works I think it'll come out light.
George
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I've stiffened an osage bow with heat treating but not spot treating.
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Hmm, how much did you cook it Pat? I've seen some bows really charred on here but I've never personally done it. Seems to be more common on the whitewood bows. I wonder if I should do the whole limb and then continue tillering which would remove the heat treated wood on the stiffer parts of the limb, or go ahead and tiller to a good bend and then treat to stiffen it? Sorry for all the questions, I'm a heat treating novice. :-[
Thanks,
George
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Is this one a sister to the one you shipped me?
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Yes, it's out of the same quarter and was right beside it, closer to the dead limb that caused that jog. It was a big tree, I got 9 staves out of that one quarter; 5 under the bark, 3 sisters underneath and one of those sisters (the one I sent you) was deep enough to get another sister under it (which I just sent to Nate). The wood right beside the limb has the worst jog but is pretty straight and has almost no twist. As the staves move away from that side and lower they get more twist. The other sister I have left has 90 degrees of twist over the 7'. The furthest stave from the jog on the top was what I made the mollegabet from. It has been good wood so far. Have you played with your stave yet?
George
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I think you and I and Nate should get those three sisters together when they are done for a photo shoot!
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I agree. :D Doesn't the 3 sisters sound like something my folks would have enjoyed on Lawrence Welk? ;D
Last night I piked 2" off each end of this bow and it moved the hinge close enough to the tip that it isn't a problem anymore, lucky break. Still haven't figured out how to put it on the tillering pulley system, but I have it drawing about 18" and I'm guessing the draw weight is around 40lbs there. Rickey was over working on his bow last night so I could have him draw it while I watched. I think if I get one more friend over to work on bows in the next couple days I can get it finished. I heat bent the twisted limb straight, but the string is still outside the handle. Hope to get some pictures tonight.
Jawge, it looks like your superglue/sawdust idea in that crack is going to work out great. Thanks.
George
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George, I cook osage until it gets a nice chocolate brown. It doesn't necessarily have to be a smooth solid color all the way down the limb either. I've used this method on the last few osage bows I've made. I generally heat treat when I'm adjusting the reflex near the completion of the bow.
On the tradGang Trade Bow(osage)I built last year I heated and straightened or heated and bent that thing so much that I think it got heat treated that way. :D
On a locust Eastern Woodland bow I'm working on now I heat treated the limb to a dark brown. I have given it over a week before I stressed it. I strung it last night and checked tiller and the pull. I'll still have to tweek the tiller some but it picked up a few pounds in the process. I don't know how much because I haven't checked the weight on it yet.
I'm also working on a hazelnut stave and I added reflex and toasted the belly while doing that. That wood doesn't seem to scroch very well. I'm sure it stiffened the limbs a bit and hope it will hold some of the reflex but I was surprised how little color I could get it to take.
From reading Marc St Louis' method my method shouldn't be effective...but it is for what I want. I can usually treat a limb in the time Marc leaves the heat gun on one spot. I'm gonna try Marc's method sometime to see the difference. When I heat treat I hold the nozzle of the heat gun about 1" above the wood and work in a 4" to 6" area at a time. When it gets to the color I want I move on to the next area slowly incorperating the heat into the new area while slowly taking it away from the last. When I finished with the whole limb I will start at one end and reheat the entire limb then let it cool at least over night before unclamping it. I'll wait a week or so this time of year because of the dryness and 3 or 4 days in the more humid summer before stressing the bow.
It is all still experimental for me right now. I'm still seeing what I can get away with. ;D ::)
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OK, that's really helpful. Thanks, I will try that for sure on this one. I hope heating it won't affect the superglue where I glued that crack shut. I'm not far enough along to do it yet. The lower limb bends nicely but is too stiff. The upper limb is only bending in the outer half. I'm embarrassed to say I had the mother of all senior moments last night. I actually heated and twisted the limb the opposite direction I meant to so now the limb REALLY has twist. :o ::) :-[ :-[ :-[ Good grief. I was going to take a picture of it but my camera battery was dead...just as well. Maybe I should take the night off working on bows? By the time I get done untwisting and bending this one it might be close to tempered too. Man, it's good I have another bow to work on if I have to wait for a week after tempering it. Patience is not my strong suit.
Good luck on those experiments and thanks for all the help. :D
I'm heading out to visit a farmer tomorrow who has been cutting osage corner posts and put an add in Craig's List. Hope he has some that'll make good bows, the one in the picture looks nice.
George
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George, looks like there is a bow in there. Take your time with it. When you have different entry points for the limbs it makes for a tough tiller. George
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Are you sure there is hinge there? I can't tell. Looks like a hump in the wood. Jawge
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Jawge, you could be right. That hump is right on the thinnest spot on the limb after I dealt with that split. When I started bending the limb most of the bend looked like it was right there. I assumed it was a hinge. Now that I have more limb bending and have shortened it I'm not seeing a hinge at all. Maybe it was never there? Don't know, but I do hope it makes a bow. I started it on a whim not caring if it broke, now I'm beginning to care. It will probably be center shot with that handle.
Thanks,
George
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I agree. :D Doesn't the 3 sisters sound like something my folks would have enjoyed on Lawrence Welk? ;D
George
"...thank you Bobbie and uh Sissie, it's so nice to see that your break dance moves are buck wild as ever. And now the Three Sisters along with Myron Floren and his accordian are here to take us all back to the great Nascar film "Days of Thunder", starring Tom Cruise, with AC/DC's heavy metal track, "Thunder". Take it away girls! A one, a two, a three..."
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You're scaring my John ;D Brought back more memories though. Hey, Nate got his sister today...let the fun begin...pictures to follow. :D
George
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Mr. Welk (another celebrated North Dakotan besides myself) always featured current hits of the day, not just music of the past. If he was on the air today me might be featuring one of his wholesome beauties singing Lady Gaga's Pokerface. Or not.
::)
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The highlight to my grandmother's life was that she got to cook and serve a meal for Lawrence Welk in her home in Minnesota and my uncle (her son-in-law) played golf with him. I don't remember the circumstances that led to those events, but lets just say my folks didn't miss a show. Hard for me to picture Guy and Ralna and Lady Gaga on the same show though. ???
George
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Well, this bow is now tillered to about 43#@24". My superglue/sawdust filler of the crack failed on one side all the way through the limb. I was hand drawing at the time and it was easily the loudest tick I've ever heard while drawing a bow. I felt it clearly in my bow hand and it spooked me a bit, but I could not find the source of the noise. I went ahead and put the bow on the tiller tree, pulled it some and marked some stiff spots which were then scraped. I didn't discover the source of the noise until I was about to quit for the night. Sadly, I didn't have the camera out there. My question is whether I should try gluing it again, or just wrap the whole limb there with decorative thread for 6" or so? I don't think that limb is tillered well enough to declare it finished, but I'm a little reluctant to pull it a lot further with the crack not secure. I'll post a picture tonight.
Thanks,
George
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I took pictures to ask for tillering help. Looking at them is better than looking in real life it seems. I'm thinking I should do more on the lower limb, which is longer and bends less. Maybe a little inboard on the upper limb too. Funny, I like the tiller on each individual limb, they just don't go together. Anyway, what are your thoughts? That deflex has me doubting most everything I come up with. ???
George
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/rebound_bow-11.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/rebound_bow-12.jpg)
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Looks pretty good to me,the hump in the handle makes it hard to see ,but overall it don't look bad at all. :)
Pappy
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Thanks Pappy, assuming it makes a bow I'm really curious how it will shoot. I got a picture tonight of the crack showing how it has opened back up. The super glue did not keep it together for some reason. After exercising the limbs for a bit the crack looks worst, within 5 minutes of unstringing it you have trouble seeing the problem. Tomorrow I'll pick up some more thin superglue, reglue and then clamp it in the vice overnight. Once I have it tillered I can wrap that spot. This picture was taken a couple minutes after unstringing it so the crack had closed up some.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/rebound_bow-13.jpg)
George
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Thats about all you can do,how far out are you now as far as draw length,I would get it rapped as soon as I could,may have to leave that area a little stiff,what area of the limb is that spot in ?
Sometimes if I am pretty close I will scrap a little extra on a spot like that then rap and continue tillering the rest of the bow and take what I get there. :)
Pappy
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I have pulled it to 24", that upper limb appears to have a boatload of bend at that point, worse than it really is because of the deflex. Wrapping it now is a good idea, I think all of the remaining tillering will be outbound of that spot. The crack is at that dark spot on the lower limb in the pictures, right off the fade-out. I need to decide if I'm going to wrap with decorative thread or with sinew. Thanks for the advice.
George