Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: swamp monkey on January 04, 2011, 10:26:55 pm
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Over the holidays i was able to work on some blow gun darts to go with my river cane blow gun. I made six darts fletched with milkweed fluff, three fletched with cotton and two fletched with a section of squirrel tail.
The milkweed darts took an hour each.
The cotton darts took 20 minutes each
The squirrel tail darts took only minutes. Skinning the squirrel and getting the tail off in a case skinning method took about a minute. no adhesive needed. Once the tail dried it was stuck good.
I used fletch tight for my adhesive and created decorative wrapping with red and black thread.
I like the milkweed most of all. I want to work on how the cotton darts look. The source I used to do them had darts that looked great. Mine do not compare. Live and learn. :) Now I have a goal.
It was fun and they are a hoot to use on a cardboard box!
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Awesome darts! This is a project iv wanted to do for a while. Where did you get your thistle?
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Thistle grows weedy style in some pastures and roadsides. I collect the pods before they mature so the silk portions do not release. I do the same thing with Milkweed. I really like the looks of a milkweed dart but boy they are work.
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looks good! this is my next project. how long is your blowgun and how did you hollow it out? i found a good piece when i last cut some arrow shafts, but it split when i tried to hollow it out.. i tried using a long pointy dowel right after i cut it, but that didnt work..
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Swamp Monkey;
Those are beautiful. How are you applying the thistle? Are you laying the thistle in your hand, and putting the string in a slit in the end of the dart, and rolling the dart, and finishing off by wrapping and pull through, or are you gluing piece by piece?
I watched a guy making them by rolling them in his hand, and it was quick, and beautiful when finished. Less than a minute. I tried one some time back, and it was no beauty, but it functioned quite well. I want to try again, and practice a bit. I have lots of thistle on my property in Montana. :P I want to make a blow gun, for them, with a piece of 1/2 inch copper tubing in a piece of cane.
Wayne
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I have a rule at home to never talk about important things with my wife after 9PM because I am a mental vegetable. Well I realized this AM that the post mentioned thistle not milkweed. The darts are fletched with milkweed fluff, not thistle. I even replied regarding thistle without catching it. I have made thistle darts but that is not what I have pictured. SO I changed the post title and my initial description. Sorry about that and NO MORE posts after 9PM. :-[
I will describe the process after work today and use some drawings to help. As Paul Harvey used to say, "stand by for news!"
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Standing by ! ' Frank
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Waiting to hear......" The rest of the Story ! " Good Day.
Wayne
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sorry to be so windy but here it goes:
To make a blow gun I choose a large diameter piece of cane that has a diameter of 1 inch or so on the large end. Blow guns can be most any length but 5- 8 feet is good. Think about it like rifles and pistols. Which one has accuracy at longer distances? The long arm.
I straighten the cane like I would any atlatl dart or cane arrow with dry heat from hot coals or a heat gun. Once straight comes the fun part. I will describe the methods I have heard about and the ones I have tried.
HOT ROD: take a five feet long section of steel rod that is the appropriate diameter to fit in either end of your blow gun stock. Have a good hot fire going - coals are good for this. Stick one end of the rod in the fire to get that bright orange glow. Use welding gloves to pick up your cane and handle the rod (safety) put the glowing end in the hollow internode part of the cane and push until you hit a node, slow keep the pressure until it burns through the node. You then proceed through to the next node in line. I usually can burn two nodes before I have to reheat. If I have a few to do and want to get on this (especially summer when the last thing I want to do is play around a hot fire) I have two rods going at one time. That way one is always in the fire getting hot. In no time at all you will have burned out the nodes. You might run the hot rod over the nodes a bit to help burn them down, but don’t dally too long as the burning rod will burn through the sides of your blow gun. . . . don’t ask me how I know that.
DOWN THE TUBES: you can dump a small burning coal down the hollow portion and push it through with a stick. This was a method described for Cherokee blowguns and I want to try that some time. That same site recommended using a long piece of green cane to “sand down” the nodes and to do it soon after you burn the nodes out so the plant oils can transfer back into the blow gun. Silica in the cane will help sand things.
SPLIT & GLUE: Some Native American blowguns were split, nodes hollowed out and the blowgun glued back together and wrapped. Sources I have on this style say this style can revert to old shapes of crookedness and if the glue loosens you have an air leak in the chamber. I have tried this method and had a LOT of trouble getting the cane to split into even halves. That is why I have the cane string post in the cave men only section. (I have some leads to pursue on this now BTW) . I have created shorter blow guns with this method and have no reservation about their function as of yet but they just do not look like an un-split blowgun to me.
A LITTLE GRIT GOES A LONG WAY: Use some sand or flint chips to pour in a hollow end of blowgun stock then insert cane that has a hollow node section in it. Spin the small diameter cane while keeping the blowgun stock still. This is the process Archaic natives use dot make holes in banner stones using cane and flint chips. For a banner stone you are looking at 200 + hours. For a blow gun less than a half.
SANDING & POLISHING: I glue a piece of sandpaper to a dowel slightly smaller than my smallest end. I then work sanding magic. I speculate whether pine pitch coating a similar stick could be dipped in sand and create the same aboriginal effect. The Cherokee method of using cane to sand is something I will explore the next time I try this.
The smoother your bore the longer your darts will last and the faster they will travel.
It’s pretty simple, it just takes the effort.
Blow gun darts. This is a lot like the difference between making bows and making arrows. I had a fellow bowyer say to anyone who would listen, “making bows is the easy part; making arrows that takes skill.”
Blow gun darts are kind of like arrows. Either it takes time or it takes skill. Sometimes both.
Shafts: You can split out cane segments, black locust splints and then sand them to desired diameter. I recommend you practice making darts with bamboo skewers. They are cheap plentiful and get you going fast. Besides they will be roughly the same consistency as a river cane BG dart. Heat treat the tips of any dart to make them harder.
Milkweed dart: look at the picture below. I go through successive routines of grab fluff, glue and wrap with thread and do it again a bit further down. Over and over this occurs until you have fletched about 1/3 of the dart. I use fletchtite glue and cotton thread. The real trick is getting the fluff. I use a set of tweezers to reach in and get small bundle of fluff out of a milkweed pod. I use tweezers so the fluff does not open up. I can then grip the fluff with my fingers and arrange in sort of a line up.
Thistle: is the same way but instead of looking all fluffy like the milkweed darts do they look like they have annular rings. The fluff is shorter and stiffer and I suppose that is the reason.
When done I like to use some colored thread. It may not be historically accurate but boy it sure does make them look nice. JMO.
The squirrel tail Dart is easy cheesy to make. Skin a squirrel. Take the tail hide off like you would a sock. Trim off the bottom half inch. Slide it down onto the shaft and then it will stop when the tail diameter gets too small. Let this dry and then cut the tail and hair off flush with the end. That way the tail dries real tight on the end before you cut it. Thread wrap as before. A spot of adhesive makes the tread knots stay put even if you tie a serving knot.
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dude... your awesome. thanks! do you have a pic of any of your blowguns? im sooo gonna try this! wonder if my patch of cane has any that big..
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Here is a thistle fletched blowgun dart (top) compared to a milkweed fletched dart (below) I gave this one a flint tip by suggestion that is what the tiny "bird points" were really used for. While i cannot dispute their use on blowguns I read an article in PA a few issues back where a fellla used bird points to penetrate a deer without any trouble. I cannot see much use for putting a stone tip on a blowgun dart but I have not tested this like that fella did with the bird point arrows. That was a good article by the way.
The other pic is just the tip of one of my blowguns, I will post a blowgun later after I get the camera warmed up.
thanks for the kind words folks that means a lot more than I would have anticipated.
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Awesome!
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Swamp Monkey;
Those are beautiful. How are you applying the thistle? Are you laying the thistle in your hand, and putting the string in a slit in the end of the dart, and rolling the dart, and finishing off by wrapping and pull through, or are you gluing piece by piece?
I watched a guy making them by rolling them in his hand, and it was quick, and beautiful when finished. Less than a minute. I tried one some time back, and it was no beauty, but it functioned quite well. I want to try again, and practice a bit. I have lots of thistle on my property in Montana. :P I want to make a blow gun, for them, with a piece of 1/2 inch copper tubing in a piece of cane.
Wayne
Wayne did I answer your question?
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Yes, you did, as well as those of others on here. Very nice drawings also. ;) Thanks.
Wayne
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Has anyone ever tried or heard of a blow gun made from a sumac stem/branch?
It has a large pith that Native Americans would hollow out to use as a tap to collect maple sap.
I though if you could straighten a long enough section and remove the pith it might work and not have to worry as much about the nodes inside tearing up the darts as much.
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That is cool. Mechslasher had one that James Parker made when we went hog hunting.
I do have some points that were made for darts. They are a lot smaller than 'bird points". I'll post some pictures tomorrow when it is light outside.
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mullet.. a james parker blow gun? im confused?
if so, is there anything he doesnt make? lol
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here's a pic of an interior of a blowgun. It is not perfectly round. This blowgun was going to crack on me if I straightened any more. Kind of like bows in a sense. There is the pursuit of perfection and then there is leaving well enough alone. Slightly imperfect but workable vs. broken with the need to start over. Sometimes you make due with appreciation. I give away my good ones. keep the culls.
My son demonstrating his stance. ;D
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Has anyone ever tried or heard of a blow gun made from a sumac stem/branch?
It has a large pith that Native Americans would hollow out to use as a tap to collect maple sap. I though if you could straighten a long enough section and remove the pith it might work and not have to worry as much about the nodes inside tearing up the darts as much.
I have never seen staghorn sumac get a pith all that large, but I have seen Elderberry get the appropriate size with a spongy pith. Length might be shorter, but fewer nodes, and the fluffy pith should be a snap to remove if you are crafty. I have heard of some blowguns being made from elderberry but personally I would craft a mouth piece for it. I know the leaves and stems are poisonous so putting my mouth on the stem would make me a bit nervous. :P Anyone have other thoughts or experience here?
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dude, thats pretty awesome! have anymore to give away? lol
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Wow, excellent work! I have 2 young boys (11 & 8) that were looking over my shoulder as I was mumbling "cooooool" so now it looks like I will have to make up 3 sets so us "kids" can all go out and play when the snow breaks. I'll have to find a sub. for the Cane as we don't have any growing here.
Your skills with the pen/paper are equally as good, great actually!
Do you have a drawing or a demo on how you treated the squirrel tails, mounted them to the dart? I am a falconer and my Hawk kills 40-50 of those a year for me. Mostly the Grey Cat Squirrel like you've shown here (unless that's Fox but it looks like Cat to me) and one of the cool color phases we have here in MI is an all Black one. Would make some really nice looking darts. Are the Sq. tailed darts slowed than the Milkweed fluff (heavier mass possibly?)....would Cattail down )the tops) work?
Amyway, great thread and thanks for sharing.
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Sweet,that is very cool. :)
Pappy
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Your skills with the pen/paper are equally as good, great actually!
Do you have a drawing or a demo on how you treated the squirrel tails, mounted them to the dart? I am a falconer and my Hawk kills 40-50 of those a year for me. Mostly the Grey Cat Squirrel like you've shown here (unless that's Fox but it looks like Cat to me) and one of the cool color phases we have here in MI is an all Black one. Would make some really nice looking darts. Are the Sq. tailed darts slowed than the Milkweed fluff (heavier mass possibly?)....would Cattail down )the tops) work?
Amyway, great thread and thanks for sharing.
Below is a sketch for how I process the squirrel tails. It is easier to do if the tail (bones, meat etc.) is attached to the body still. To remove the tail I pinch the tail base right in front of the skin. With my other hand on the squirrel body I pull the body away from my pinched fingers. The goal is to make the tail skin come off like a sock. No rips no tears. If using your fingers does not work you might try using a a pair of sticks and use them like your daughter's hair berets. Van Dykes sells a tail skinner that works wonders if you do enough of them. Sometimes a tail will tear at the vertebral joint. This makes getting a firm grip on the tail bone tough. Such times require vise grips or a vise. I love modern devices. The squirrels I have access to are grey squirrels Sciurus carolinensis and fox squirrels Sciurus niger. I know there is a lot of variation in fox squirrels across the US in way of color and patterns. Here in SE MO I would rather skin six greys than one fox squirrel. Especially if I wanted the hide in nice shape. they can be tougher and harder to skin. But that also means the hide will hold up better. I plan to make a squirrel row hide string some day and a fox squirrel is my resource of choice. I am not familiar with a grey cat squirrel but local names are fun all over the US.
If you need anything else please let me know. I am happy to share.
As for cattail down. I have dinked with this for other projects and consider the fluff too short to fletch a BG dart. I also have never heard of any native tribes using it for that purpose. With that said I never tried it. I would enjoy knowing that someone made it work. Besides is gets all over as you deal with it. Not exactly an indoor friendly product. The other fluffs scatter too but nearly so bad.
The milkweed dart is a lot like a cat with it fur on. Kind fluffy. Get em wet and you see how little cat there is under all that fur. My point is they look bulkier than they really are. I have not noticed any speed differences in darts based on fletch but then again I have not paid attention. One day I will have to find a chronograph and see about that. That inspires me! good thinking.
best of luck and post some of those black tail darts if you craft some. That sounds like a cool product.
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Swampmonkey, thanks a ton for the reply and info. I have a few full body black "grey" squirrels in the freezer, I'll see how difficult this method is with a frozen/thawed one. I am sure the "cat" name is a local variance...they are one and the same as your Grey's.
You're art skill are killer, no doubt there! You should find someone that needs an illustrator for a primitive skills book, you'd be a natural.
We don't have any type of River Cane or Boo locally here in MI, Any thought on what a decent substitute would be?
Again, many thanks!
Lee
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Swampmonkey, thanks a ton for the reply and info. I have a few full body black "grey" squirrels in the freezer, I'll see how difficult this method is with a frozen/thawed one. I am sure the "cat" name is a local variance...they are one and the same as your Grey's.
You're art skill are killer, no doubt there! You should find someone that needs an illustrator for a primitive skills book, you'd be a natural.
We don't have any type of River Cane or Boo locally here in MI, Any thought on what a decent substitute would be?
Again, many thanks!
Lee
Shucks. you are awfully kind. I would jump at the chance to illustrate a PS book! Maybe someday.
As for a cane substitute: If you have an import or decoration store that may be a source for some type of bamboo. It might not be North American river cane but it will work pretty much the same . . . I think. We have a place called Pier One and they carry a lot of exotic interior decoration items. I have found large diameter bamboo. Another source might be a garden center. Bamboo stakes cane be found in some places. It is worth a look.
PA has a trading post. I have not used it myself but I bet skinned, black squirrel tails would be worth some bamboo! I would not mind working out a trade once I find out how much shipping would be on a stick of cane.
It's not real Abo (aboriginal) but a short PVC pipe (longer will sag) or a copper pipe will get you started till you find some stock to work on.
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I have made a couple from old 2117 aluminum arrow shafts(I had to find some use for em,lol) and made mouth pieces on the lathe. Im gonna give this a try tho, been wantin to for a long time but didnt know how til this thread, THANKS.....Brian
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A fellow primitive and I visited yesterday and he showed off some really cool darts crafted from locust thorns, thistle fluff and sinew. He noted they work really well on a smaller diameter blowgun. The cane he has access to is not terribly thick. So this option really appeals to him. He indicated with a smile they really zip. I will try to gin some up and post them for everyone to see.
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You said om southeast mo,where about? I live in scott city.I wanted to make a blow gun for awhile now.
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very cool. your work is incredible. the squrrell tail may have me trying this again. i didnt have the patience for the milkweed fluff when i last tried. elder is usuable and is what i have here in connecticut . needs to be dried thoroughly and the bark removed to remove glycosides. to be safe i would still wrap the mouthpiece. think im gonna give this a whirl.