Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: gstoneberg on December 05, 2010, 10:57:18 pm
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Adb's build-along peaked my interest about Holmegaard bows. I had a thin osage propeller stave I wanted to do something with,
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-1.jpg)
so I brought it in the house with my ruler and sat with my laptop tuned up to adb's data and laid the outline of the design out. His was a board stave, but I'm hoping it works the same way for a regular stave. Boy, cutting out a bow like this on the band saw is quite a bit faster than the normal way I do it. Here's how it looks after a couple hours of drawing, cutting and sanding.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-3.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-2.jpg)
My question is about the natural deflex in this stave. Should I heat bend the limbs back straight, or even into some reflex? Or, should I bend recurves into the levers? I'm shocked at how thin and dainty they are.
Thanks,
George
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I would give it just a tad bit of reflex, the couple of this type that I've built shoot the heck out of an arrow, good luck, Bub
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+1
I have just finished one in Black Locust. No deflex but 1" of reflex in the "siyah" giving 1" total of reflex for the bow. Impressive speed, and no string follow at all so far. With the deflex you have I would definitely try to induce a minimum of 1 to 2" of reflex. You'll get a natural D/R holmegaard, which design is I think a killer, combining lightweight outer limbs and increased initial draw weight. On my next bows I'll experiment further pushing the limits on outer limbs width and amount of reflex here.
Good luck.
Oll
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Looking good! That build along has inspired me as well. I have a holmie roughed out of what was a 3 inch diameter chokecherry stave, I'm just waiting for it to season a bit. I'm looking forward to seeing how yours turns out!!
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Thanks guys, I hope this one turns out well.
I finished the heat bending. I was trying to put a little reflex in each limb but it came out straight as a string. Couldn't do that again if my life depended on it. ;)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-4.jpg)
I really like the look of lightly toasted osage.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-5.jpg)
I may mottle the whole bow that way, I've seen others do it and it sure looks cool. It took 5 heat bends to get what I wanted. Now the tillering can begin in earnest. Gotta move fast to finish this in time for Christmas. ;D
George
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George, don't "mottle" the bows back. It will weaken it!
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OK thanks. I really babied the back when I did these bends, but I confess I wondered how a darkened back would look. Maybe some stain would be a lot safer. I've never painted a bow back before, but I've sure seen some beauties since joining here. So many possibilities, so little time. And I've only scratched the surface of the different styles of bows to make.
Anyway, thanks for reminding me. I'll be careful of the back.
George
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It might be interesting to just reflex the levers relative to the working limb...
Oh no, another thing to add to the to do list ::)
Del
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Del, I almost did that when I was doing the other bending. I'm for sure game to try it. Any suggestions on the amount of reflex and distance from the end of the lever it should be? I will say the further inbound, the harder it will be as the depth of the lever really makes bending that direction. It was tough bending it sideways and that's just an inch of depth. I'm thinking midpoint on the lever as the cross section is almost square there. But, this is a new one for me so I'm open to suggestion.
George
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George- Look at your tips again. I fear you will develop a hinge and possibly breaking your bow. The transition from the wide limb at the shoulders should be a gradual thickening of the outer limb while narrowing toward the tip. The thickest part of the narrow outer limb should not be at the shoulders. Think of it as somewhat like the profile of a canoe.
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Dang, I hope not. Here's are pictures of the limb to lever junction.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-6.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-7.jpg)
The lever is 1" deep where the limb has thinned to 1". I misspoke when I talked of the platform being square in the center of the lever. It's basically square all the way to the end, thinning gradually in both width and depth. The limb is not as wide as a typical bow of this design because the stave was this narrow and since it is osage I hoped it would be stout enough.
What should I be doing differently?
George
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George, the thinning of the tips is correct, however the tips should thicken as they get closer to the nock. In doing so in the right proportion, low mass can be achieved with very narrow tips for non bending outer limb. I have gone as thin as 1/4"
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/Klandaght/26726491dd09431c4b8dc238b3624852bfdf8b97.jpg)
Here is an example. Not my bow, but gives you an idea of what I was saying. The tips can be thinner in depth than this one as long as the tips remain unbending.
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One more example with more subtle tips.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/Klandaght/bows/IMG_0371.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/Klandaght/bows/IMG_0359.jpg)
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I love that thick tip look, very nice pictures. I might have to do one like that in the future for sure.
I honestly don't think there'll be a problem because I'm floor tillering right on the thin tips now and so far they are not bending. I was quite curious when I first did it to see if they would be OK. I'll watch it closely and we'll see what happens. As always, I can't put any wood back on the bow. If it fails, I'll post pictures for sure. There's more wood out on the pile where that came from.
Thanks for the help.
George
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I wish you well with this bow. Keep us posted.
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This bow has been a fight for me. Trying to ignore those levers tillering was hard for me. I glued on some long mesquite tip overlays for fun and got it ready for finishing today. As always, one limb came out smooth and easy and one was a fight to the end. All the heat bending I did to straighten it was for naught. The deflex came back the minute I began tillering. As usual, I ended up switching top/bottom limbs. Seeing the full draw makes me want to take a few scrapes off the outbound part of the right limb...but I really need to call it done and get it sent. The current specs are 65" NTN, 65#@28". By the time I get it sanded and shoot a few arrows through it I expect it to be 60#@28". Right now it is heavier than I like to shoot. Hope my Christmas exchange person likes it.
George
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-8.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-9.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-10.jpg)
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Ok, the tiller looks good but the arc could be a little more roundish - try to let them bend a little more in the outer area.. This is a Möllegabet-Style Bow not a Holmegaard. The levers could be thinner - just a touch thicker than the working limb, but that could only be done if the levers are wide enough. Otherwise they are too instabil. Set is good but could be less if the bending is more outerlimbs. You see on the anbraced pic that the set is coming dircetly from the fades - the portion on the outer limbs are stiff.
Greetz
Cord
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Thanks Cord, I can see what you mean. I did see by following the thread on Holmegaard's that this looked much more like a Mollegebet. Not surprising that given 2 possibilities I would get it wrong. ;D I see what you mean on the tillering. I'll do better next time. I can certainly reduce the thickness of the levers somewhat. I'm going to shoot it tonight and see how much hand shock there is. I suspect I can go narrower on the tips too. I'm anxious to shoot it and see how it does.
Thanks again,
George
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Atta boy, Georgie! Fearless of failure, always pursuing something new! If that bow is heavier than you like drawing, I'll take it off your hands.
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Thanks JW but I can't do it, gotta send it off for the Christmas exchange. I shot it tonight, has a little hand shock so I'm going to remove some wood from those levers. After a few shots it began to feel really good. As usual, I don't have arrows spined right for it. I got a little handle work done and shaped the cork rest tonight.
George
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Well, I ground some depth off each of the levers and finished up the string nocks. Need to call it done and get it in the mail so I started the finish work. Took a couple pics of one of the limb tips. Hope to get it sent off in the next day or two. George
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-11.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-12.jpg)
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Looks like a very cool bow. That toasted osage looks awesome.
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very nice. I like the holmegaard style. I am sure that whoever recieves it will like it very much.
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Thanks guys, but I've messed up the finish process. I guess I didn't degrease well enough, the oil I used for bending didn't get totally removed and now the finish won't dry. ??? :( >:( Looks like I'll have to break out the acetone and start over (it's a poly finish). :-[
It seems the faster I want to do this...the poorer I do. Must be one of Murphy's laws...he loves me. ::)
George
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Looks Good to me.
Jeff
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Thanks. Murphy gave me a break on the finish. It turned cool and the furnace had to run more which finally got the finish dry. Today I finished it, adding the handle wrap and serving the string. Final stats are 61#@28". Made me shake while the wife was shooting pictures at full draw, probably feel that in the morning. ;D
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-13.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/holmy-14.jpg)
I'll box it up now and put in the mail in the morning.
George
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Gorgeous bow. Hmm....haven't got my gift yet....Are you my secret santa? ;D
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Nope, this one is headed quite a ways northeast of both you and me. ;) I don't know who has me either. I'm glad I haven't gotten my gift yet, since I haven't sent mine. Once its enroute I'll feel better. And thanks, I have a lot to learn with this style of bow.
George
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Man that is a good looking bow...I bet it shoots hard.
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Yeah I can't complain about not getting mine yet, Mine gets sent out this week.
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Wow George I just found this thread. That is looking really good. I still haven't tried to make one of those bows but definitely have it on the radar. Tiller looks great and I like the overlays on the tips. Going to make someone very happy. Great job on your gift. ;)
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Thanks guys, you're all very kind. I am so thankful to be a part of this. No matter what kind of bow you want to make, there are so many fine examples available here to look at (most with build-a-longs) that you never want for ideas. Add to that access to the best bowyers in the world when questions come up and you just can't beat it. I'm having more fun building bows than I have in years. To borrow a line from Pappy, life is good.
George
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That bow looks great...Someone is going to be real happy to recieve it. I've been wanting to try that style for awhile now. I bet it shoots hard!!! Fantastic job
Jon
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I missed this one George. Great job.I'll bet it is quite a shooter. God Bless
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Thanks Pete. It was my Christmas Exchange gift and ironically it went to straightarrow right after he posted. I will make another one of this style bow and try to do a better job on the tiller. I've got a nice honey locust stave I might try.
George
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Gorgeous, George!
...erm, the bow, not you. >:D
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Never a doubt John... ;) Nobody uses that adjective and my name together, even my wife won't stretch the truth that far... ;D
Hey, I'm getting close to putting your rawhide on that S-curve bow. I cut the handle out yesterday. Might have some pictures for you soon if it holds together for a little more tillering.
Thanks,
George