Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: theleatherk on October 19, 2010, 11:39:52 pm

Title: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: theleatherk on October 19, 2010, 11:39:52 pm
Hey all!

Since this section is called "primitive skills" and I figured some of you guys shoot black powder, too, I thought I'd ask for some feedback. I've just started doing scrimshaw (and I love it!) and my "teacher" says that a lot of chaps like maps on their horns and that would be historically accurate. I figure I'll do a lot of wildlife, too, I was just hoping to get the opinions/advice of anyone willing to chat.

Thanks for looking!

Here's a pic of my first piece:

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Hillbilly on October 19, 2010, 11:46:32 pm
Good job!
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Thwackaddict on October 20, 2010, 12:31:48 am
that looks great!!!
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Pappy on October 20, 2010, 05:56:23 am
Thats beautiful.Very nice job. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: El Destructo on October 20, 2010, 08:24:00 am
Looks Great Kylie...Scrimshaw has always reminded me of Fine Line ...Black and Grey Tattoo Art...and I am a fan of it too........ ;).....did you do the Quilt too?
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: theleatherk on October 20, 2010, 11:00:41 am
El Destructo - nope to the quilt - proud owner of it, however, as it was made by my great great grandmother.  :)

Thanks to all for the praise.  ;D
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: ken75 on October 20, 2010, 11:04:10 am
vey nice work ,glad someone has patients .. that would look good on a bow handle too !
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Parnell on October 20, 2010, 12:09:24 pm
Looks very nice.  Don't know anything about that.  Is it carved in and inked?
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: theleatherk on October 20, 2010, 07:14:49 pm
Parnell,

Yes, that is essentially what scrimshaw is. You use a thin and very sharp needle-like tool to scratch out your design. Once it's complete you run over it with some black paint, wipe it off with a wet cloth, and bam! you have a one of a kind piece!

I've since aged the horn to look even older and am finishing my wampum beaded strap for it now. Will post pics of those later.  ;)
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: JW_Halverson on October 20, 2010, 10:58:59 pm
Nice to see scrimshaw work on here as well as the other stuff we post.  I've built each of my three powderhorns and some more for friends, every one is totally different from the next just because of the nature of the materials....much like bows. 

Lotta original powderhorns had poetry on them, too. 

"Powder, patch, and brother ball
Makes free Men
Of us all.
1778"

Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: theleatherk on October 21, 2010, 09:45:42 am
JW_Halverson,

Thanks for the input! I will definitely be putting some poetry on my next piece. Now I can't wait to get it started!
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Grunt on October 23, 2010, 07:59:52 pm
Nice work, keep at it. Priming horns are nice to do small work on too.
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: theleatherk on October 24, 2010, 01:13:45 pm
Updated pics of the horn and new wampum beaded strap! (The wampum beading is VERY rudimentary.  :D )

The horn's been "aged" since the first pictures. Not sure if I necessarily like it better, but it does the job for primitive rendezvous.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Pat B on October 24, 2010, 01:28:49 pm
Kylie, did you make your wampom from clam shells like the original ones were?  The strap goes nicely with the powder horn. I think I prefer the horn in the first pic. The darkness of the "aging" seems to hide the scrimshaw.
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: JW_Halverson on October 25, 2010, 11:22:28 pm
Ok, gonna post something for you to think about.  This was for a primitive rendezvous crowd, right?   The expectation is that the gear you are going to carry should be contemporary to the period in time you are seeking to portray, correct? 

Just how many people 200 years ago carried a powderhorn that looked 200 years old? 

Something to think about...if it was meant to look like an original, it would look new or at most would have the marks of normal wear and tear.  I've seen guys drop $2,500 on a custom flintlock rifle and it looks indistinguishable from one carried in 1778 by the Over The Mountain Boys that kicked Colonel Patrick Ferguson's butt on Kings Mountain in Georgia.  I guarantee none of those fellers that depended on keeping their own hair and that of their loved ones had rusty, pitted barrels or srocks that were cracked, weathered to heck, or gussied up with "mountain man" brass tacks.  A common grade rifle, one without any real ornamentation or fancy carving/wire inlay/german silver doodads cost the equivalent of a working man's wages for a year.  Not likely he'd have let it go to pot, especially since it was the first and often last line of defense in a world that saw more personal violence than we care to admit to today. 

Ok, getting off my soapbox.  Sorry if I sounded sour.  And it's still a cool powderhorn, and you got no reason to be ashamed of it, despite my rant.  It's just something as a historical re-enactor that I notice when I see first person interpretation.  Next time at the range, just imagine my face on the target and blaze away, hehehe. 

 
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: BearG on October 26, 2010, 09:39:34 am
Saw the horn Sat. morning in person. Kylie has a lot of talent.  I also thought it looked alittle dark, but still a great piece of useable art.
BearG.
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Eric Krewson on October 27, 2010, 10:20:03 am
The only suggestion I would add is to look at pictures of a few horns made by contemporary artists. The most stunning have very fine lines. You have a lot of artistic talent but finer lines would add to the work.

Here are a couple.

http://s881.photobucket.com/albums/ac20/Spence_2010/occasional/horns/
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: JW_Halverson on October 27, 2010, 03:31:09 pm
Another place to look at artwork masquerading as powderhorns is on the website for the Contemporary Longrifle Association. 
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Eric Krewson on October 27, 2010, 04:35:48 pm
A friend who was very ill, didn't think he would live, gave me all his guns, accessories, powder horns and possible bags. He beat the cancer but still wanted me to keep his stuff, said it needed to used and enjoyed, a one of a kind type of friend,

Here is some of his work. He was not an artist but a blacksmith, he does have an eye for detail, again fine lines.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/Biffsbagandhorns.jpg)
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: theleatherk on October 27, 2010, 09:16:27 pm
JW - I definitely see where you're coming from! I must admit I was unwitting of how the horn would turn out when "aged" - my "teacher" just did it, without even really consulting me.. After which, I could only try to make it look acceptable... I do like the fact that I won't need to do that in the future for any customers, as, you're correct, they wouldn't look old! Museum-like or display pieces, would/could, however, which is maybe what my teacher was more going towards. For now, I'll just be happy that I had success and had fun with my first piece.

Eric - I reallllly like the pictures you linked! I should say, however, that I'm quite certain the "cross hatching" (going one way with lines, then the other way, perpendicular, across it) is incorrect. Additionally, authentic pieces would have been made with knives or any sharp object that would do the trick - plus, those men weren't artists, just wasting time. I'm going to work on my style and practices in the future, but I do appreciate the insight from all!!!!
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: JW_Halverson on October 27, 2010, 10:55:59 pm
Scrimshaw was a very elevated form of art in the 1700's, many powderhorns of that age were beautifully scrimshawn (scrimshawed?, scrrimshed?   ???)  Most powderhorns were not made by the people that wore them either, that was done by a "horner", as in Little Jack Horner.  Horners also made horn book covers, combs, spoons, lenses in lanterns (the word lantern derives from 'lanthorn'), and a thousand other handy items that today are cast from plastic. 

And thus ends today's history lesson.
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: lerxst on February 20, 2011, 03:53:52 pm
I just wanted to share my work. I hope it doesn't offend anyone.
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: El Destructo on February 20, 2011, 06:17:19 pm
Looks great...I took no Offense...but I am sure that there will be someone that does.....even though Nudity  is only Natural
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: okiecountryboy on February 21, 2011, 02:26:33 am
Looks great...I took no Offense...but I am sure that there will be someone that does.....even though Nudity  is only Natural

First of all Kylie..Beautiful piece of work...
El D.....I do take Offense at that....I'm offended that it's not mine! ;)
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: El Destructo on February 21, 2011, 02:53:52 am
LMAO............ ;D
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: sailordad on February 21, 2011, 03:13:12 am
well all those horns posted are incredible
i did like the first better before the aging process
but it does make it look 200+yrs old
i have been looking at these on some collector sites recently
some of the originals had beautiful artwork,as that they were intended
others you can tell were scribed by less talented individuals
but are still nice
i think the artwork was kind of a status symbol back then
the richer you were the fancier one you could afford
the working class would carve thier own
i prefer the ones that dont look so much like art work,but were truly a utilitarian piece of art
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: robby on February 23, 2011, 04:53:12 pm
Horn work can work well with early archery as well.
One for blowing a call to your mates and one to toast them when they arrive!
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh217/robin101st/securedownload-3.jpg)

(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh217/robin101st/securedownload-5.jpg)

(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh217/robin101st/securedownload-6.jpg)

(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh217/robin101st/securedownload-9.jpg)

(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh217/robin101st/securedownload-10.jpg)

robby

Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: stickbender on February 24, 2011, 05:40:43 am

     Whooo Hooooo, that does not offend at all !!  Beautiful piece of work!  Those other horns are absolutely beautiful !  Theleatherk, that is a nice horn.  Too bad your instructor got a hold of it.  Could you not scrape, or sand it down and redo it?  I have a few horns, that I have scraped down, and somewhat readied for the plug, and measuring stopper, but as goes with being a Gemini, I always have several projects in various stages, and before, I get back to finish one project, I start on another, that is not finished..... ::)  I guess you could say those projects are my uh...... Preforms...... ;D ;D
     I always love to see powder horns.  Like JW said, scrimshaw was quite an art form back then.  Even some of the home made ones were actually pretty darn nice.  Scrimshaw actually goes wayyyyyy back in time.  It wasn't the advanced art form, but art work, and religious symbols were carved in all kinds of materials, and tools.  The sailors really brought it up into the forefront, with whale teeth, and animal bones, and such.  I have seen pictures of little jewelry boxes, that were exquisitely carved, and scrimshawed out of bone, and ivory.  But horns are still my favorite.

                                                                     Wayne
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: theleatherk on February 24, 2011, 10:49:49 am
Wow, awesome horns, guys! (And no offense taken here, either.  :D )
Stickbender- I will certainly try to scrape/sand it and redo, but I'm not sure how far I'm willing to push it as it is my first piece and I don't want to redo the eagle, mostly... I know all about the preforms, by the way.  ;D

I love how this strand transformed and I'm helping a friend with her horn. Hopefully we'll get pictures up here when it's complete (though, I guess, it may be sans scrimshaw - she said she's not sure which route to go at this point; but we are building it start to finish, and that's pretty good for two girls with some tools and a lotta gumption).
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Pappy on February 24, 2011, 11:07:49 am
Man there is some beautiful work on here ,and some very talented folks.This stuff is great,all of it. :) :) :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Lee Slikkers on February 24, 2011, 02:34:35 pm
I love this stuff, anyone have any ideas/tips on where to find horns locally as opposed to commercially?

Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: El Destructo on February 24, 2011, 02:53:09 pm
Ask around ....local farmers and ranchers usually just haul their dead cattle to a certain spot and let nature run its course....after about a week the outer shell of the horn is slipping...and you can gather them easy....or maybe a local butcher shop that still does local slaughtering....
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Lee Slikkers on February 24, 2011, 03:24:32 pm
Ask around ....local farmers and ranchers usually just haul their dead cattle to a certain spot and let nature run its course....after about a week the outer shell of the horn is slipping...and you can gather them easy....or maybe a local butcher shop that still does local slaughtering....

Cool!  Thanks El Destructo
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: lerxst on February 24, 2011, 10:53:34 pm
Wow robby,  beautiful work. I am planning to make a viking Drinking horn, and those have me inspired. I love the carving work.
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: El Destructo on February 25, 2011, 12:23:35 am
Cool!  Thanks El Destructo

No Problem...Us Michiganders have to stick together....even if you are a TROLL.....and not a Yooper....you had no choice what side of Da Bridge you was born.... >:D
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Lee Slikkers on February 25, 2011, 12:57:48 am
Cool!  Thanks El Destructo

No Problem...Us Michiganders have to stick together....even if you are a TROLL.....and not a Yooper....you had no choice what side of Da Bridge you was born.... >:D

Tis True!  Would it help to say I've shot more ducks & geese in the UP than I have down here in Holland over the year?  LOL  What area of do you "hail" from?
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: El Destructo on February 25, 2011, 01:09:24 am
I was born in Ishpeming...in Marquette County...grew up on the Shore of Lake Superior....and now I live in a Friggin Desert...can ya believe it.... >:(
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: Timo on February 25, 2011, 09:48:22 am
Nice scratchin on that horn!

As for those looking for horn, check on your local veterinarian,they de horn throughout the year.just ask if they would keep a few for ya. Most the time they aren't the best for scrimshaw, but still make good horns.
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: JW_Halverson on February 26, 2011, 05:35:41 pm
Stickbender- I will certainly try to scrape/sand it and redo, but I'm not sure how far I'm willing to push it as it is my first piece and I don't want to redo the eagle, mostly... I know all about the preforms, by the way.  ;D

I would encourage you to leave the horn as it is.  There is such a thing as "doing it to death".  Leave it as is, it's your first, and there will be only one first!  Like bows, just grab another and start over with a new vision. 

By the way, do you do pen and ink sketches or pencil sketches?  If you do, I want to send you some photos and have you render them in p&i or pencil for me.  If they work out, I'll have you do them on a powderhorn I have ready to be scrimmed.  I have a friend that is not long for this world and I want her portrait on a horn.

Thanks,
John
Title: Re: Scrimshaw powder horn
Post by: theleatherk on February 26, 2011, 08:15:56 pm
John,

I haven't sketched in ages but am pretty good with both pen and ink and pencil. Either way, send the pics to my email (laveykm@gmail.com) and I'll get started on them! I would love to help you!

Kylie