Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: AncientArcher76 on August 03, 2010, 07:51:13 pm
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Hi guys I wanted to know where to find the info on how to make a simple jig for fluting...I dont need the type with the lever or maybe I do but I was watching Mike Santiago using a bunch of small blocks of wood tied together and a few wooden shimms he wrapped some string around the point whacked the nipple with a bpper and got a perfect flute ..both sides! Well I cant remember exactly what he did or I wouldnt bug any of u..so helP!!!!!!!
Russ
LOL have a good day!!!
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Oh yeah?
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depends on what you want to make.
If you want to make plane Clovis points then any jig will work.
If you want to make cumberlands and folsomns then your need the solburger jig.
If you have not started fluting points i'd wait dont handycap yourself with a jig.. I hand fluted and held erm with my feet and used indirect long before i made a jig.
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Thanx Jesse I have been fluting by hand for some time now with fair results! I want to up grade...lol I will look around the net for pictures or plans on various forms of jigs! Thanks for the response.
Russ
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Oh Leap what is a plain old jig and maybe I can get a diagram from someone would make my day! I can start with a Plain old ...
Thanx!!!
Russ
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i use a solbuger jig and i made it from a pic of one i seen on line.
just find a pic of one ad go from there thats what i did.
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Thanx man will do!
Russ
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Russell, Search Paleoplanet for pics of Kenny Wallaces jig It is about the simplest type, called a guillotine jig. Wait to do anything until letchworth where you can get a look at a couple different types.
Steve
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try this link paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/34662
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russ paleomanjim shows a very good demo on his on youtube. it would be easy to copy
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I guess I must be the one knapper left in the US who has no desire to use a jig. If I can't flute'em the way they fluted'em, I don't want to flute'em. (Say that five times fast :) )
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Steve, there is one other person. =)
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Hey guys thanx for the help...I enjoy fluting by hand but the jig dont look overly complicated I just want to try and flute just one all the way to the tip...sounds silly right? Steve I will wait till Letchworth and Ken Wallace is a friend of mine Ive seen him using that Jig. One question is how and the hell did the natives flute so well like the cumberland without the use of some type of system...or did they? Hmm ok boys gotta run!
Russ
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I think they used a device of some type.
Can you flute to the tip with direct percussion or in direct percussion? The answer is yes but show me someone who can do it consistently...
The characteristics of a direct and indirect percussion flute flake scar are different then a flute flake scar left by a jig. Look at the artifacts, most cumberlands show the small ripples on the face near the tip of the point were the flute flake released. Very rarely will you get the ripples with direct or in direct percussion and most flutes with a jig that don't push the flute clean off the tip and stop abruptly will have these small ripples.
If primitive man could build simple machines to build the pyramids and Stonehenge etc., I'm sure they could have come up with a device to flute points. Such a device would probably have been made from bone and wood and could not last the test of time. and since the Paleo Indians had no written language theres no way to know for sure
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Well said Jesse!!! I love when some guys think..and myself gets caught up in that, when or if its not in a book or documented that it isnt so! I honestly belive that these people who needed to survive by the means of making these tools were every bit sophisticated enough to may have built a simple device to produce effective results each time rather than direct inderect and possibly making a costly error! It goes for many things whether a bow , arrow, or any thing else HEY CHECK THIS OUT!
OK NOTHING TO DO WITH TOPIC BUT SAW A COMMERCIAL ON TV U ALL NEED TO SEE!!!
youtube.com/watch?v=T7Dak8V_OpQ
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lmao! dont be that guy
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I think they used a device of some type.
Can you flute to the tip with direct percussion or in direct percussion? The answer is yes but show me someone who can do it consistently...
The characteristics of a direct and indirect percussion flute flake scar are different then a flute flake scar left by a jig. Look at the artifacts, most cumberlands show the small ripples on the face near the tip of the point were the flute flake released. Very rarely will you get the ripples with direct or in direct percussion and most flutes with a jig that don't push the flute clean off the tip and stop abruptly will have these small ripples.
If primitive man could build simple machines to build the pyramids and Stonehenge etc., I'm sure they could have come up with a device to flute points. Such a device would probably have been made from bone and wood and could not last the test of time. and since the Paleo Indians had no written language theres no way to know for sure
Nobody does know for sure. I know a master knapper who has only ever hand-fluted his points and while he doesn't produce Cumberlands regularly, he can do it. I have seen some Clovis flute flakes which had been recovered from archaeological digs that were in one piece, when jig flute flakes tend to go to pieces. Ancient man had the same brain as us and I think it is unrealistic to think they couldn't have developed a jig, but why go through all that if you can do it by hand? I guess we'll never know.
Jim
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I understand both sides and there are always going to be 2 sides on certain topics. I know many master knappers some will use a jig and some wont. Its the way it goes. I think if I were going to produce them for a display or to sell them I would want every advantage I could get. Its not to say they will not break using a jig but if it means getting clean flutes then why not? It also like the issue of being a primitive bow using bells and whistles like rattlesnake skins, pistol grips, laminates..... its take know how and talent to do any one of those things including the use of a jig. Anyway to jig or not to jig!
Russ
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Everybody has different motivations and reasons for knapping, or any other hobby for that matter-and nothing is right or wrong. Some people simply want to make the most perfect points they can. You can take a rock, slab it up with a diamond saw, grind it to shape and cross section on a machine, then run a pass of pressure flakes and flute it with a mechanical jig or notch and serrate it with diamond files, and wind up with an absolutely perfect point that makes people go wow. And there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you like doing, but you might miss out on a bit of the magic that makes knapping so attractive to most people, and you might not learn a lot about how and why things were done the original way. Another person might work nothing but tough quartz rock with abo tools for the enjoyment and challenge of trying to figure out how it was done and never make anything that will make people ooh and ahhh. And that's fine, too. Most of us are somewhere in between. I do think that I'm much more impressed by a hand-fluted point than a jig-fluted one, even if it doesn't have flutes running out both tips. Most original Clovis points didn't have long, exaggerated flutes anyway. The people who made the Cumberland points may have used some kind of lever, or maybe not. I certainly doubt that a nomadic hunter would carry a big bulky mechanical contraption around just to flute points with. If they used anything mechanical, I would say that it would have been something like Swoose's forked stick method of fluting that could be done on the spot from local materials. If your family only makes one style of point for a couple thousand years, you probably would get pretty good at it eventually. :)
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If your family only makes one style of point for a couple thousand years, you probably would get pretty good at it eventually.
well said.
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Was gonna mention the forked stick but once again steve beat me to it. =) and again some of us like to do things the hard way. Been using copper boppers for the last week and couldn't figure out why I wasn't gettin my points as thin as I usually do. Went back to antler and stone and bingo thin blades.
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I hear u Jamie I made a few copper boppers and have been getting ok but for some reason I take cleaner flakes using a hammerstoneI need to find what Im going to use and stick with it!
Russ