Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Sanford on July 30, 2010, 02:33:29 pm
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So this is bound to get some opinionated responses by even mentioning the C of F word (Compound and fiberglass) But I was wondering who else had like mindedness.
I really enjoy archery! I find it calming and exciting at the same time. When your out there shooting, the feeling of focus that you achieve is very rewarding. I get the same feeling in a lot of the activities I do, especially rock climbing. You get out on that rock and its just you, yourself and your mental focus to get you to your goal.
And I enjoy making bows, which is rewarding in the process itself, whether or not I actually made something that turns out to work.
But I feel like I am an outcast in most archery communities, or one of few, if you will. I like to shoot everything. Compound bows, Fiberglass, wooden. I sometimes mess with sights on my compound, most the time not, since I'm more instinctive and just about as accurate without them. Plus I can pop of shots crazy fast when I'm not worrying about lining up pins.
I think for me it's not so much my equipment, but the actual experience of archery. I really do love great craftsmanship and the uniqueness of the bows that people make, don't get me wrong, something about a one of a kind item is appealing. But To say that I feel disconnected shooting a compound or something made out of synthetic material is not true. For me, like i said, it's more about flinging that arrow to the target.
So you could just say that I like archery. Period. To me there is no right way or wrong way to experience it, and I feel like people always want to put others into categories and say why there way is better. Not necessarily better, just different.
Anyone else agree/disagree?
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Not an outcast, I'm of a similiar mind and I'm sure there are a few here that share the same feelings. I'm working on some FG bows for my brother and friend, just another type of building, but I stick to my wooden bows because they're simply more economical (a way of life for some ;D). Lately my bows have been shooting exceptionally well, and getting better, and cost nothing, even compared to making my own glass bows. Likewise, no nasty splinters or loud power tools ;). As for compounds, even with a release and sights I couldn't shoot any better with the thing. To each their own. I hold nothing against others for using more modern gear, it's archery to me, but it'll be a wooden bow in my hands when I chase fuzzy things or try to shoot a score :)
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I'm with you. I started off with a compound. I don't shoot it anymore, but it's still lying around in storage somewhere. I also have and use, regularly, several production model fg bows. And I like them. That said, I prefer wood/whatever natural bows. But, there is a lot more to what makes a good person and good outdoorsman (person) than the materials they use. There DO seem to be some loose, anecdotal, demographic trends towards people who use more restrictive equipment being the type that is less interested in trophy/top score/longest shot/etc etc etc. However, some of the most conciencious and competent woodsmen and women I know hunt either with compounds or firearms. This is not a new thing, and it will probably never be resolved. I think there is merit to doing things a certain way and that it is possible to miss out on much of the enjoyment of the outdoors by bypassing those processes, but I also understand that what works for me will not work for everyone, and that it's pointless for me to try and impress my methodologies on all those around me. I can offer them and see who is interested (and there is often a goodly number of people who are interested).
For me, I know what I like and perfer to do/use. That's not even set in concrete. It changes over time. The main thing is that I affiliate myself with people who hunt and fish and generally use the outdoors in a responsible, ethical, conciencious way. It's also important to me that they be people that I just naturally get along with. To paraphrase Robert Ruark, you can't be a gentlmen and a sportsman and be a bad person.
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I say that it basically comes down to this - you're right. All that matters is how much you love and connect with the weapon you are using, and how much you love and connect with nature. One or the other variable can be more than the other, or missing altogether. But when both are high, you are a happy and respectable sportsman and/or hunter, no matter what you are using.
CP
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I too LOVE archery.
WHEELIES are not for me. There is something to be said about connecting with wood. You can feel the personality of the bow. Especially when they blow up in your face ;D
I truly am not wanting to step on anyones toes...Seriously...But they don't call this PA for nothin.
Each to his own.
But who am I to talk...I own a winchester lever action and an AK47...You Just never know.......
In short, working wood to a finished weapon is an addiction. These guy's here are still way out of my league, but I'm learning...
Ron
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>:( >:( Honestly I feel that to even bring up compound bows on this forum is insulting. Go take your compound and.... ::)
Okay just kidding. ;D
Actually I couldn't agree with you more. I started with a compound 65# Diamond Marquis and absolutely love it. I managed to win a couple of local shoots and even took my first and only Pig at 25yards (350lb+ Sow...still have meat in the freezer).
I absolutely cherish my compound; however, I can't tell you how much I also love to make/design and shoot my own bows. In fact the recent hunt with the compound pushed me further toward traditional archery. Sneaking up on the pig was hard, but the shot was unconsciously easy with the sight pins.
So now I am full bore traditional and train daily with my longbows; however, as the only shoots/leagues out here are for compound archers, when I get the time to join up again, I will pull the compound down and shoot with all my friends because THAT (the camaraderie, friendship and memories) is a seriously major percentage of my love of archery.
Shoot 'em all. Enjoy 'em all. Worry less.
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I love archery, too! I like making arrows, shooting them, making gear, decorating my quiver, and just about everything. I didn't start with a compound bow, I just went straight for a recurve Martin Hunter (which I still have) when I started. I've never shot a compound, though I've seen them shot before. ;D Just not for me. I did have a Horton Safari Magnum crossbow a long time back before I got started in traditional archery. It was pretty handy for dispatching feral cats. >:D
I have a bamboo backed osage longbow Justin Snyder made for me here in a trade. That bow shoots as well as any production glass longbow.
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sort of been a stick bow guy for as long as I can remember, but building my own and trying to make each one better is what I like now. Trying to get something as simple yet complicated as a primitive bow to a high art just facinates the stuff out me. BUT having said that anybody that pulls a string is OK with me. it's really fun to chew the fat with other types of archers....they dont get me and I dont really get them.....but we got things in common and it's a good time.
Bye the way we had a local league in my area and I joined up and can tell ya I got my butt smoked by sighted wheelies, and everytime too.....but it was fun, hell the looks alone were priceless....not to mention some guy with carbon-fiber arrows (straight to about 10 thousandth's) looking at my flying telephone poles that might be straight to nearest 1/4" with hafted heads and 7" turkey fletch. If a guy shoots a bow he's OK, he's got his and I got mine and generally were both happy as a pig in poop ;D more power to string pullin, no matter what the string's hooked up to.
rich
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I believe if you pull it back and it flings an arrow and gets you out in da woods!Game on,Guns have evolved and so have bows.Theres jus a selg gratification and different air of respectfullness that you get when cruising the woods with a bow and arrow you made out of mother natures own doing!Exhiliarating!!
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Tools are tools. I use handsaws, bandsaws, and axes. Every carpenter loves his favorite hammer, but there comes a time that he has to put it down and use a saw, chisel, planer, rasp, etc. When the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, all your problems look like nails.
I have never shot a compound, but I come from the muzzleloading crowd and the idea of never going back to "suppository" guns is common. I went from caplock to flintlock and I just love 'em. But last year I bought my first modern deer rifle...a Rem 700 .243, installed a nice Leupold scope and a Harris bipod. Went and shot a deer with it last year even. It has it's place, plenty different from "Lux", my .50 cal Early Lancaster flinter.
So, no, I am not judging you. But just show up shooting your wheelie around me and you better expect some good natured jokes about "training wheels"! I in turn, expect to hear jokes about needing to wear feathers in my hair, or how I must hate those Geico commercials, too.
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I've only been shooting sticks for about a year now. I love it. I love the challenge.
To me what is the challenge of aiming with sights. I plan on buying a compound bow...but I'm still going to shoot instinctive with it. I dont like sight pins or kissers...I am no robut.
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I agree with you guys. A bow is a bow I respect compound bows and shooters, personally don't like them shot them never owned them. The spirit was not in it for me. My first bow when i was 10 was a 48 in sniew backed flat bow, never bought a fiber glass bow either, I like them but for some reason I am not accurate with fiberglass or compound dont know how to use the pins. I have always been more accurate with wood bows and arrows. My friend goes to lots of shoots with his primitive gear and actually quite often gets higher scores then compound shooters, he is a awesome shot and has great concentration thats about 90% of the battle for us instinctive guys. Each to his own, but i find most compound shooters either end up going traditional or primitive in the end.
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I've never owned a compound. I shot one once. I can't remember the last time I shot one of my FG bows. I make selfbows and that's all I shoot. My experiences are so tied into my equipment. I can't separate them. They are one and the same for me. :) Jawge
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I appreciate everybody's input!
I'm glad that there are people out there that, though they don't have the same equipment, they still have an appreciation for the sport of archery of all kinds!
Keep it coming.
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I grew up shooting compounds until about a 1 1/2 years ago. Then I discovered primitive bowmaking, and I love it. Since then, I have built a bow shop in the garage, and stocked it with all kinds of goodies. But, I still have the compound hanging on the wall. Last deer season, I was struggling with accuracy with my selfbow. I decided to go back to the compound instead of making a poor shot on an animal. To me, it was the right decision. This year, I will have a lot more practice time in, and I am moving my stands to allow for closer shots, so things will be different. Compounds are amazing machines, but I hope I never shoot one again.
Also, this topic is why I love this sight. You can use the word "compound" and not get kicked off.
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You know I was thinking a out how you say a compound is a good mAchine, well by definition, an all wooden selfbow is also a machine. It's just the complexity and manufacturing process that differs, though they work on the same concept, which is using stored potential energy to power an arrow. Being a mechanical engineer, I really can appreciate the mechanical advantage of a cam system to help store the energy. But like I said before, I also love woodcraft and the ability to fashion such a device out of wood.
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That's IT O OUTLAW!
YOU ARE OUT-A-HERE! ;D ;D ;D
JUST KIDDIN!!!! ;D ;) ;D
Ron
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The problem I have is not the compound bows, but in the mentality of not all, but quite enough of the compound shooters. They are constantly getting this barrage of psychological warfare called Madison Avenue Advertising telling them how inadequate they are with what they have. They have deepseated insecurities so they get suckered by yet another gadget thinking they just gotta have it because so and so on the Horn Porn channel has it and I wanna be like him. No independent thought, no critical thinking skills, just meek lamblike follow-the-leader mentality. And what does Madison Avenue do? They find names like Rage, X-treme, and so on to bolster their insecurities.
Is that bad in and of itself? Not so much. Really. We all buy things to make us feel better about ourselves. I buy wines that have received better reviews because I want to know what is like to taste "better quality" wines.
What bothers me is that the whole advertising message is that you didn't do good enough hunting last year with that equipment. The hunter does not look back with love and reverence for that deer that he finally arrowed on the last (or first for that matter) weekend. Instead, he is demon driven willy-nilly with a look of desperation in his eye to the archery shop to upgradeupgradeupgrade. No matter what satisfaction he derived from the last year's hunt, his heartless Masters on Madison Avenue denigrate his hunt by telling him what he has is not good enough, he MUST upgrade.
We in the Primitive circles have those people as well, but just not as many. We hold what we have killed and are eating now with a reverence similar to the Disciples breaking bread and wine together in celebration. Before we even made that kill, before we ever walked into the woods that morning or evening, we poured hours of work into the tools. Eventually we looked at it and said to ourselves, "For what it's worth, it's done. I made this. I can hunt with this." With that comes a satisfaction based on achievement long before we draw that fateful arrow, pick the spot, and exhale the arrow to it's intended mark. I only wish those that don't understand my words may someday have the chance to take a stave down and work it until the bright new day comes when their hand, wet with their quarry's blood, stains the handlegrip. And then they too, can see the chains fall from their wrists, free from their tormented pursuit of more betterer upgradeupgradeupgrade.
"If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumber'd here
While these visions did appear.
And this weak and idle theme,
No more yielding but a dream,
Gentles, do not reprehend:
if you pardon, we will mend:
And, as I am an honest Puck,
If we have unearned luck
Now to 'scape the serpent's tongue,
We will make amends ere long;
Else the Puck a liar call;
So, good night unto you all.
Give me your hands, if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends."
-W. Shakespeare
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Thought this would be better here. Nothing aginst the others ,but I am a selfbow guy. :) :)
Like Jawgs,it is just who I am and what I do. :)
Pappy
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I was given a compound a couple of years back. Never used a bow before. I looked at it a couple of times and just had no interest. About a year later my daughter talked me into buying her an osage bow. Once I shot it with her I was hooked. Many books later and a bit of time on this site along with reading Primitive Archer, and I am in love with the self bow. The history, the feel and the wonderful people involved are quite special.
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I shot a compound once, but I didn't inhale..........;D
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I've owned one compound, a PSE Laser2. I never felt comfortable with it and it was just too heavy. I like making and shooting wooden bows but it's no secret I like my old glass bows too. I like collecting the old Bears and have over 20 glass bows.
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JW -
Beautifully put and I agree with you 100%. I think the commercial poison is what most of us can agree on that we are against.
CP
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JW, you make some great points. Funny thing is, I've seen the same---and much worse---in the firearm hunting crowd here. Elk is the big thing here. And, before elk season starts, here's these guys out there shooting shoulder-fired howitzers. The native elk here were wiped out with "puny" firearms, probably .30-30s or .44-40s. But now, we've got people here that think an elk cannot be brought down with a .30'06. I was out shooting a Mosin Nagant here one day and here's a guy shooting a 8mm Remington Magnum I think it was. The rounds look like they fell out of the belt chute of a Apache gunship's Chain Gun. And when the guy fired it, the concussion from the blast wave was felt in the next county and reverberated off the Grand Canyon, scaring tourists from California who thought it was the "Big One" and collectively filled their pants---a true mess for the park rangers driving the tour bus they were on. Flying insects died in midair from the concussion. The muzzle flash was tremendous. Russian Strategic Rocket Forces commanders were calling NORAD because their satellites had picked up an ICBM launch, but they weren't aware of any silos in this county. I asked this guy, "Hey, I wasn't aware that the army actually sold one of their Atomic Cannons. I thought they were all in museums." The guy says, no, this is his elk rifle. "Elk rifle?! That thing is overkill for wooly mammoth!" Nope, he says, elk are getting stronger, ya see. He says to me, see, the elk are getting tons of vitamins and hormones and viagra and what-all from our wastewater. They're drinking it. And these are super-elk and they laugh at popguns like the .30'06. Why, even a .300 WinMag is asking for that elk to brush it off, walk over to you, and shove the rifle someplace that burns after delivery of seven fully digested bowls of Ol' Fred's Habanero Chili. I said, "Hmmmm....I sure am glad to know that, because I all I've got is some Mosin Nagants and .303 British SMLEs. I mean, people have only killed bears, wolves, and lions with those rounds. Nothing at all like these elk here, right?" Right, he says, and what's more is you're not a REAL HUNTER (trademark pending) unless you have this rifle. "Really???!!!" Yeah, really. Sez so right there in Super Extreme Elk Blasters Journal magazine. And have you seen this month's issue? Dirk Manly shot a 7 ton elk from over 3 miles away using the new .996 Magnum made by Remchester and firing depleted uranium rounds to get better penetration on that nearly-armor-plate hide.
Wow....I am just not worthy. I am not worthy to walk in the graces of such stellar hunters as grace the covers of Super Extreme Elk Blasters Journal. How can I ever be one of them? Especially on my budget. I heard a .996 Magnum costs nearly the price of a new house. And ammo costs so much, you need to buy a subcaliber device to shoot cheaper .300 WinMag ammo though it to practice. I am not worthy...
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I sincerely hope I didn't insult or hurt anyone with my post, especially you, Pappy. The people on this forum are the people I want to emulate, those that I believe really "get it" when it comes to hunting. Cacatch summed it up very well when he referred to the "commercial poison" that infects some.
And Tsalagi, I just read your post to a friend of mine that used to work in the headquarters of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. I only wish you could have heard the roars of laughter, but then you probably will never have the joy of hearing anything ever again after meeting the SuperHero 8mm Mag shooter at the range. >:D
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JW, glad you liked that. ;D
SuperHero 8mm Mag...I like that. But have you heard of the .778 Mach5? That round is being used by Army Rangers. No, for real, I know this for a fact because I read it in Monster Gunz And Blammo. Ok, yeah, so maybe---just maybeeee---the author of that article was getting a little somethin'-somethin', you know, what they used to call payola with radio shows back in the day. Or as Maxwell Smart would say, "Would ya believe the round will actually achieve orbit if fired at the proper degree?" I also read that this caliber is being considered as the premier elk round for the 21st century. There's at least 256 other super-calibers vying for that honor, but none of them have the deep pockets of BlingBling Firearms, er, I mean to say, they don't have the, ahem, reputation shall we say, of BlingBling Firearms.
The .778 Mach5 was field tested, as the article also says, by the Pakistani secret police. They fired a round at some Taliban fighters holed up in a cave there and it missed. But when the round whizzed by the cave, the speed of it actually sucked them right out of the cave---turned inside out. Now, see, think about how easy it will be to gut an elk when the round turns the animal inside out! The time you'll save will be crucial so you can concentrate on the task much, much, much, much more important than processing the meat: The task of getting that MONSTER RACK to the taxidermist! Priorities, priorities...
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I have two 30-06's lined up to borrow for the last week of eld season if I can't get it done with my bow or flinter 50.
I sooooo hope and pray that a dumb, blind, deaf cow elk with a stuffed up nose has a brain fart when I am in stalking through her neighborhood.
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What?! JW, are you crazy? Haven't you been reading what I said? You're taking youm life into your hands, risking it needlessly! Those elk will tear you apart, and you with that puny 30'06! Please, someone stop him! This is madness! Please, JW, read the latest issue of Super X-Treme Monster Elk! Especially the article written by Dirk Manly titled "When .50BMG Just Isn't Enough: The Dangers Of Monster Elk". They had to call in for air support on that hunt!!!
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Bwaaaaaah waaaahh Sob*sniffle*sob* Can't you tell this is nothing but a pathetic cry for help? I'm threatening to throw myself in front of a vicious cow elk and be torn to ribbons and eaten up! I just can't go on! Waaaaaah! *sniff*hic* *sob*
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Well, JW, we can't all be REAL HUNTERS (trademark pending) like Dirk Manly, the world-renowned extreme elk hunter and hunting magazine writer. I know I've been exploring my feelings on this one myself. I've had to come to the acceptance that I will never be a Dirk Manly. I have to learn how to be happy in being a "small h" hunter and not an all-caps REAL HUNTER (trademark pending.) I'm considering hypnosis, rolfing, and ear candling as methods of finding an inner chi that will help me to accept myself as a "small-h" hunter. It's tough to live with, knowing you'll never have an entire line of hunting apparal named after you. Or that you'll never have your voice saying "BINGO! I nailed 'im!" installed on peoples' cell phones as a ringtone. But, we can't all be the Britney Spears and Paris Hiltons of the hunting world, now can we?
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Some interesting and funny stuff :)
Here is my short take on it. I started with a glass bow when I was 14. Moved to a compound when I was about 18. I liked the compound for a while and got real good with it. In my early 20s I had got the bug and took my compound to the archery shop and put it on consignment. I bought a timberland safari longbow 58# at 28" for $120. I was hooked and never went back. I started making my own so I stopped using the glass bow but never had anything against it. I do like the feel of an all wood bow better.
Now that I have built and still build bows that are capable of performing as well as the glass bows I dont see much difference. Not any meaningful difference. I shoot with fiberglass shooters all the time and they are as good a bunch as the primitive crowd. They always enjoy the more primitive bows as well. The craftsmanship that goes into some of the glass bows can be amazing in its detail. Glass also gives the advantage of durability. In weather extremes, and when your brother in law cranks it back behind his ear :). NOTHING WRONG WITH FIBERGLASS. Its like said earlier some people just like to think they are in an elite group and their way is best as though making a selfbow is harder than a laminated glass bow. Its different but in many ways much easier as well. Most selfbow guys own and shoot guns but yet some turn up their nose at a traditional bow made with fiberglass ??? I dont care for compounds but I have nothing against them or those that shoot them. I can have fun shooting just about anything I just like all wood bows the most. :)
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Gotta say, started this topic hoping to get some good responses, and it has not been dissapointing!
JW, I totally understand what your saying about the Upgrade bull. I find this it true with just about any sport or activity you get into. Always pushing a new product claiming some new revolutionary effect, when in fact nothing much is new. As if your 320 FPS coumpound doesn't shoot fast enough, its now 330FPS!!!!!! (which by the way is pretty awesome, however overkill). Also, the ridiculous amount of assecsories for a compound is hilarious. Even on a compound, all I need is an arrow rest.
And by the way, it may be just the elk that are becoming invincible, but I would start looking out for those killer rabbits. (Think Monty Python and the Holy Grail) You won't even see it coming, your going to need artillery backup....
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All bows are interesting to me. I like all types of arrows as well.
Modern, high tech archery has a different feel than primitive archery. Firearms are a different feel altogether, but I've enjoyed shooting them all. Shooting, in general, forces you to focus your thoughts on the target. And then when you hit the target you get a great deal of satisfaction and immediate gratification.
Primitive archery is my favorite because I'm shooting something I made with my own hands, and because I can fine-tune my equipment. I never truly felt "right" with archery until I finally was able to make a matched set that surpassed anything I've used before. The better I got, the more enjoyable it became to shoot my equipment. Now, it's become part of who I am.
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I think shoot what you like and have a good time enjoy the outdoors thats what its really all about. I love archery and there are some that may think wrong of me because i shoot carbon out of my sinew backed osage. I went to carbon because at our trad shoots we will go out for a second round playing follow the leader and who ever gets the best shot on one target gets to pick the shot for the next target, some times the shots get a little crazy but it is a blast but using woodies i would break 3 or 4 arrows every shoot.
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I forgot half the stuff that was posted on this thread! I still hope to be a Dirk Manly sorta guy some day (crossing my fingers).
Wvbowhntr, you are certainly welcome to shoot those arrows if we ever go out roving or hunting together. But like I earlier stated, expect some good hearted ribbing.
Good shooting, enjoy it while you can.