Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Jesse on March 25, 2007, 11:56:43 pm
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First one. I need a little advice on this tiller. The bow is boo backed ipe it is r/d style it pulls 55 lbs. @ 27 ". It shoots very fast. I am going to put a finish on it soon if the tiller doesnt need to change. What should I use? I have water based spar urathane. Will that work good? Any input welcome (http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1000981.jpg)
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Well I'm a novice too but here's what I see:
Tiller is even, so that's a good start. However it also looks like the only the first half of the limb is working. More specifically it looks like the only part of the limb working is the first half as it leave the handle section. It appears that you need to have most of the limb bending up until ~6-8" to each tip.
I'm afraid that if you do not improve the tiller, that part of the limb which is working the most, will eventually fail or weaken. However I also just noticed this is a r/d design, so maybe that's all you want to bend anyway. If that's really a r/d design, then it is probably already bending near the ends pretty well.
Just my two cents. It's always so much easier for someone else to critique, so please don't take it personally. Like I said, I'm a novice at best. Good Luck!
Joe
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I would need to see the unbraced profile before I could render an opinon.
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Ditto, what Gordon says but generally i would say that tiller is good for an r/d bow, I like my tips stiff anyway. Steve
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I'd finish it with something not water based.Regular spar urethane is great but any polyurethane will due as long as the finish itself suits you. Satin or glossy . I'm making my first reflexed tip bow so I'm looking for info on tiller as well.
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I aggre. Good tiller. Nice job. Jawge
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Here it is just unbraced. It lost a little bit of its original bend but not bad.(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1000986.jpg)(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1010036-1.jpg)
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i might get the bow to bend a shade more at midlimb but the tiller looks pretty good as is. marc is the r/d guy so i'd wait for him to ring in before taking any more wood off.
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I think the tiller looks pretty good. I'd go with True Oil for a finish. Easy to apply and tough as nails. After you get your final coat lightly steel wool it to take off the shine.
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Looks good.
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You've got me convinced! Very nice bow. (Your house looks like my brother's in Juneau, except he's got 4 feet of snow on the ground. (15' for Juneau -a new record). Got your fine bow bookmarked for March Backed Bow of the Month.
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Let me say. You guys are great. I thought I would get ripped apart with criticism. I thought about it a while and decided that the tiller is good based on the fact that it is even and shoots fast with no shock or noise. If I change it now I will definitely lower draw weight and possibly not gain a measurable amount of improvement in performance.
Thanks for the advice. I honestly didn't know if I would even get a working bow when I started. I am very happy and maybee addicted for life.
Here are a few pics of it with the first few coats applied.I used leather dye on the boo and faded it a little with acetone. I used spray just to seal it. I'm thinking of finishing the last coats with something else. If you guys think that will work. Let me know. Again thanks for the comments. Jesse(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1000989.jpg)(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1000994.jpg)(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1000997.jpg)(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1010026.jpg)
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The outer third of the limbs are definetly a little stiff but not enough to worry about it if your happy with the way it shoots. I would just keep that in mind for the next one.... ;) over a very nice job! :)
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Nice bow and well tillered. As Ryan says there is a point about 2/3 of the way out that could bend a bit more but it's not worth worrying about it
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I can see what you are saying and on my next bow I will watch closer. I wasn't actually sure what it was supposed to look like. I put the short string on a little late I think. I thought the poundage was way high but once I put the shorter string on everything was different. Tiller was off and by the time I got the limbs looking the same it was 55# at 27" so I took it outside and had some fun. I love this bow but now that limb thing is bugging me just a little. Not enough to change it though.
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Wibowyer, don't let a little stiffness in the outer limbs dull your feelings on this bow. You really did an overall good job! I like the tips as well, and looks like the finished bow is really going to look sharp! ;)
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I don't want to ingnorantly go against the flow too much here but I would say the outer limbs represent perfect tiller for that style of R/D bow. Look at all the high-performance hybrid R/D designs out there (Black Widow, Martin, and Tomahawk--to name a few) and they are tillered the same way. I'm not saying that an R/D bow can't bend more in the tips, but I'm saying your tiller is exactly what many computer-aided-designs look like. Because your outer limbs are reflexed, they are doing plenty of work even though they straighten out at full draw. Go look at some 3 Rivers Archery adds and you'll see what I mean. It looks awefully nice too.
J. D. Duff
Edit--This is what I'm thinking of here:
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q35/duffontap/new_logo.jpg)
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If it works...DON'T FIX IT! :D
Secdonly, don't let it bug you! I think it looks great!
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Sweet looking bow and a job well done. I like a true oil finish more than spar varnish.
DanaM
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Thanks again for the comments. Looks like I'm getting a mixed review on the tiller. That tells me I cant be far off. I'm taking your advice and not letting it bug me. I will shoot this bow a lot and hunt with it this fall. I want too see how it holds up and performs in the long run before I decide to change tiller on the next. If I get time I will try a straight profile bow this summer. Maybee bamboo/ hickory flatbow or something. Thanks
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Great outcome. On the finish, I've found that Ipe doesn't like urethane very well. Tru oil is terrific on it.
Dave
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True oil sounds good. thanks
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After seeing your unbraced profile I would say you hit the tiller spot on, Shorter bows have smoother draws with stiffer tips. Steve
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Very nice,dittos on the tiller,like the tips and stain job.Well done. ;D
Pappy
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Nice bow. I have problems with R/D bows so I don't make them. The tiller looks good to me, though.
If you go with Tru-Oil(which I highly recommend) and don't like the shine, A quick spray with satin poly will give it a nice satin finish. I do this on all of my bows. Pat
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Or rub it down with fine steel wool to take the shine off.
J. D. Duff
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Thanks again. I will post a picture of it when its all done. Now I'm torn about what to use on the rest area. Ive heard Velcro works good but it seems out of place on an organic bow. Well whatever I use I don't want it to be welded on there permanently. Is there a certain glue that I should use so I can change it later without ruining my finish? Maybee rubber cement or something like that?
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I use contact cement most of the time but I've never really worn out a rest or strike before.
J. D. Duff
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I usually use a leather or buckskin strikeplate held on with contact cement, also.
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I use Barge cement for my leather arrow passes. It is basically the same thing as contact cement.
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good advice thanks.
My neighbor is building a bow exactly like mine except he changed the taper on his a little.Well anyway he came over today so I could show him how to tiller. I tillered mine with a leatherman multitool. it took me hours and hours and hours. We used a hand held belt sander clamped upsidedown with the triger locked on his and it took about an hour. live and learn I gues. Although I kind of like doing things the hard way. You get more satisfaction. I will try to post it when its done.(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1000999.jpg)
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Here is my bow all finished with a handle wrap and final seal. I took it to the range today and shot it through one of those speed checkers. I used 2018 30"long with 125gr. point. they shot 167 feet per second. I don't know if thats good or not but it sure seemed real fast. after lots of shooting the bow didn't change a bit.(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1010036-1.jpg)(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1010027.jpg)(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/WIbowyer/P1010018.jpg)
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Thats some mighty fine work! I was thinkin on putting beaver on that arrow rest( I stopped using plain arrow rests when hunting for roe deer. I had stalked within 15 yards and then the arrow clicked to the rest. of coouse the deer heard it and escaped) , but that looks good too. and yes 167 fps is good for a wooden bow. that huntingbow of mine shoots 165 and that's more than enough for hunting.
how much go your arrows weigh?
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I don't have a scale so I'm not sure they are aluminum just because I don't have any wood ones right now. They are designed for a 60# longbow Easton 2018 shafts 30" long with 125grain points. Anyone want to take a guess how much those weigh?
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I posted these pics on the first page after I saw you can vote on it. Wow that would be crazy. I dont thik I have much chance next to some of those fine bows.
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That bow is sweet! I can't believe I missed this thread! For your first r/d bow your tiller looks great! On these bows I go a lot by feel as well as how the tiller "looks".. A small bench sander with a 40 grit belt is my favorite too to get the limbs bending on these bows, and then I use a scraper and/ or a little sandpaper on the last bit of tillering..
What makes these bows "special" is how well they keep their profile, and speed..Rick Tatum shot my 5 year old 60#r/d ipe boo through the chrono recently with a 630 gr. arrow at 195fps. your bow is shooting fast, and may even go faster as the wood cures more and if the humidity drops.
It's good to see more midwest bowyers using this wood since more than a few regional "well known" bowyers were trashing the woods performance capabilities since they don't sell the wood, don't like anything competing with their fabled "osage". Heck I like osage, but I also like unbiased objectivity ;D.. Having wrote the original article about Ipe in PA, I naturally have heard a bit more of this kind of talk...
Ipe burnished is quite waterproof on its own, but often on hunting bows all it use is mineral oil rubbed in..Bamboo skin is pretty water tight too, so just the sides of the boo are succeptable for moisture..sometimes over this I like glossy waterbased polyurethane applied with a sponge brush with a light sanding between coats..Take the pretty picture, then rub it with steel wool a touch and use a good wax..then you can take the bow swimming with you..
Again congratulations on a great job, and if you ever make more of these bows, you might like using black bamboo..very camoflauged.
Rich Vol 7 issue 2 "lumberyard Gem"
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Thanks. for the comments. I am impressed with ipe. I don't know how accurate that crono thing was the guy said the batteries were almost dead. heh heh I guess it doesn't matter much what the machine says anyway. Its fast and I am very happy. Ive been showing off this bow to anyone who will look at it.
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Ya chrono shooting can be like flight shooting where a quick release gets you another 10 fps..and I don't place too much into it having owned a chrono for years, the only numbers I mention are when someone like Rick or Steve shoot my bow with appropriate arrows, and there are plenty of folks watching..and speed is nothing if the accuracy isn't there..
I'm sure your bow will impress a few folks ;D I love its lines!
Rich
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Richard, I believe that the 195 was a bad reading or a lighter arrow. I shot several shots through it and didnt approach that kind of speed. The bow was good but that would be supernatural. Steve
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Rick Tatum shot it at the last pasadena gathering, with a 630gr. and 30" drawlength..I know last year on several arrows you shot through 187 was the top speed. The bow had been in much lower humidity this time around as well..and the tips are a hair lighter since I changed the overlays and trimmed them down a bit. Perhaps the readings were off, you got 185 out of the guava bow in that same time frame..
Rich
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The Ferret's Floppy Rest is an good option for a rest and strike plate. It will protect your hand from the fletchings and is simple and easy to install and use. Pat
ps. JD, I used to use 0000 steel wool to remove the shine from Tru-Oil finish but found that everywhere the bow rubbed against my cloths, the shine would reappear. That's why I started using spray satin poly to cut the shine.
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At 30" it could have been, I think I was drawing 28". What is the draw weight at 30"? Steve
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2018 with 125gr points should come out at about 550gr, 167fps sounds great to me ;D ;D,
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Thanks for the calculation.
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Steve,It's around 66#+- a couple depending on the dryness.At Chamberlin last year the rh was around 80% since it had been raining, and I measured the bow on Ken's tiller tree just before you shot it and it measure 6o0@28" which I thought was a bit light.The other subtle differences with this bow I have learned that I should do more often is using a little more crown across the 1" wide limb, and using the thicker (3/16") trapped bamboo. The middle 16" is rigid as well so over a 67"ntn its just 51" of working limbs..