Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: gstoneberg on February 21, 2010, 10:35:01 pm
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I'm new here, found this site searching for help on making a hickory self bow. I live in the North Dallas burbs in Texas and have access to lots of osage. A friend and I cut quite a large tree down in 2008 and a while back I split out this stave and I'm wondering what the odds are it might make a bow? It would be odd, given the extreme curve on one limb but straight on the other. Not sure I could get the string in the handle, but I can always bend one limb.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/character_stave_sm.jpg)
For perspective, here it is next to my last bow, an osage bow in progress at the time:
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/h-bow_by_stave.jpg)
I did finish that bow (50# @ 28"):
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/howiebow-3.jpg)
and gave it to a friend. Here he is shooting it:
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/howiebow-2.jpg)
Compared to what I've seen you guys make, it's pretty plain, but it was fun and my friend likes it.
Thanks,
George
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very nice...and snakey! ;)
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Working a stave like that will teach you a lot about wood and wood working...but from looking at your other bow, I'd say you already know that. ;) Welcome to PA.
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Awesome stave man! Welcome to PA, you should fit right in! :)
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looks like it has a perfect sight window if you use this end for the top ;)
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Its not plain at all. It looks just as good as any other snakey bow Ive seen. Keep in mind taking good pictures can add to the effect or appearence. Try taking a few pics with the sun setting or use shadows and see how different things look! By the way awesome bow and crazy hunk of wood u got there. Build us something out of that now u got us curious to see what u can do!!!
Cheers,
Russ
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Nice job on a Challenging piece of wood.Congrats. :)
Pappy
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That's just awesome! Very well done. Jawge
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Wow, I wouldn't have thought that'd be doable. Awesome job and welcome to PA!
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Man some of you guys need to read before replying..... That bow isnt from the stave he's asking about.
Gstone, Looks like a challenging piece for sure, what have you got to lose? Give it a shot!
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To build on Gstone's question, just how much is too much?
Sawfiler was working this stave.. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,17535.0.html and the limbs are pretty snakey, but at what point does the snakey shape of the limbs start to affect performance?
D
PS Gstone...that IS some knarly looking wood to work with!
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Thanks for the kind welcome. The bow I sent pictures of is the same bow sitting on the saw horses next to the gnarly stave. I honestly haven't worked up the nerve to work that bent stave. The bend is so severe that the load will be sideways on some of the wood and I'm not sure how or if it will work. That was the gist of my question. My favorite bow is a sinew backed osage of about 62" length with a big knot hole in the upper limb. The only picture I have of it here at work also has a dead deer in it. Not sure if that kind of picture is appropriate in this forum. It was also a thin gnarly stave that I put off working on a couple years. I shot the one deer with it and then retired it as I didn't want to risk blowing it up around that knot. It would only draw about 25" and was not my best tiller job. At 3d shoots I got a lot of grief that I had a peep sight.
The best osage I've ever worked with was an old corner post I found in southern Nebraska when we lived up there. Talk about seasoned...and without a single knot! Too short for a full stave, I have to join billets to use it. I've toyed with making a take-down, has anyone done that? I've saved half that old post for a special project someday. I used 2 billets from it to help a high school student make his first bow. I do have pics of that one here.
Here he is after shooting it for the first time with the handle unfinished, no handle wrap or rest.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/jeremy_bow.jpg)
Here he is shooting it when it was finished.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/jeremy_bow1.jpg)
That one was 65# @ 28". It's a little heavy for me, but he can shoot it. He's coming down to hog hunt with me, rumor has it he's made a bow for me but I won't see it for another month or 2. That'll be fun.
To be honest, I'd rather teach somebody to build a bow than build one myself. I learned in a John Strunk class in Montana in 1995.
George
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Give it a go, you did real well with the bow you posted, and that looked like it was a tough piece of wood. Looking forward to seeing pics. of the progress. Keep us posted.
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Crazy stave and nice bow for your buddy- Good luck!
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What kind of length you got to the crook on the short limb?
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What kind of length you got to the crook on the short limb?
It's about 18" to where the bend starts, 23" to the center of the crook. There's a little less than 4' from the other end of the crook to the end of the stave.
George
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I would go for it,just be careful in the bend,usually if they are going to give trouble it will be there.I have made several takedowns using the sleeve system for Yancey or 3 rivers. :) I ant sure what to much snake is,never seen one yet I wouldn't try,don't all work out but when they do they are to cool. :) :)
Pappy
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Yup try it. She'll teach ya. Look at the tiller from both sides make sure the bends are doing their share of the bending. Knots and other suspect areas should not bend as much as the rest of the limb. A good trick is to measure of each limb in 6 in increments and use outside calipers to get a taper. Put on the first 6 in line. Tighten. Give it a few twists. Keep removing wood until you get to the next 6 inch mark. Continue. Take your time. :) Jawge
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OK, I'll give it a go. I've never used calipers to build a bow, but this does sound like a good time to start. Maybe if it isn't too cold in the shop I'll go get started tonight. Thanks. George
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Go for it,
check this out, and my wood isn't as good as Osage
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/super%20snake/DSCF0006.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/super%20snake/DSCF0017.jpg)
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Great lines!!!! gotta love those curves
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Oooh, I like that a lot. Very nice. George
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What ? Manny in long britches? ???
Love that bow son! ;)
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OK, I cleaned off the work bench, brought in the stave and started work.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-1.jpg)
The wood around that jog in the stave is nasty looking.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-2.jpg)
Looks like I'll have to bend a limb to get the string in the handle.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-3.jpg)
Removed the bark and marked out a centerline.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-5.jpg)
This time I did quite a bit of work up front on the belly as I'm a little afraid of wood problems
and I'd just as soon find them before I go too far chasing a growth ring. There's quite a bit of
water and insect damage in this spot. Also, the wood here is very hard and really worked
the draw knife (and me). :o
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-6.jpg)
There are some deep checks on the belly. Not sure at all if there's a bow hiding in here yet.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-7.jpg)
The good news is that it's slow growth and therefore strong. The bad news is there are 20 rings/inch,
staying on a growth ring is going to be a pain. There is a nice one about 4 rings into the heart wood.
I'll shoot for that as the bow's back.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-8.jpg)
Enough for one evening, I'm out of energy.
George
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I'm really interested to see how this turns out....looks like a challenge
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I'm going to start a thread in the HowTo's and Build-a-longs area and put the rest of the bow construction pictures over there.
Here's a link, http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,18169.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,18169.0.html)
George
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You have a nice ring just under the bark there. Looks like you are following the longitudinal grain well. That first pic with the string strung from end to end was just to give you an idea where the string fell on the handle. Right? More on my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
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Yes Jawge, I was just checking out how much heat bending I had in front of me to get the string in the handle. There will be a bit of that required it looks like to me. I hope I can use that top ring, but I'm skeptical due to wood borers. I've also sometimes had the top ring turn back to white wood further down the stave. If it's too bad I'll sinew back.
One thing I found interesting is that the wood deep in that bend splits out to a much shallower point on the ends of the bow. I'll have to be careful draw knifing the belly. I'll probably use a rasp and a drum sander on that jog just to be safe.
George
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No reason to change anything but that twist in the snake is what gets you. I've tried 'em, Timo, etc. like that and sometimes you get away with it, sometimes not. The effect of torque is I think what causes the trouble. You'll see Manny's example is excessviely snakey, but stays in the same plane in terms of twist.
Never say never, but be mindful this is it's Achilles heal. Hard to day what you got till you get it all backed down, laid out and reduced to floor tiller. Just in case, leave beaucoup wood in that area till you get an idea how it's gonna bend there. Might even consider a little heat manipulation if it looks like it will help.
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Good points, this is the first snaky bow I've tried that has twist in the limb like this one. I'm also worried about how hard the wood is in the belly of that little jog. So far it is much harder than anywhere else in the bow. I'm hoping that the wood up where the bow will be will be normal, but if it isn't I'm not going to have any luck getting it to bend. I won't put in a handle on this bow until I have it bending well. That way I can splice a different limb onto it if I need to (or make a take-down). George
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Better wood yields better bows, period.
Bad wood yields better bowyers, exclamation mark.
No guts - no glory, glad to see you going for it!
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Well, I'd hoped that nice big top ring would work out for the bow's back, but some of it was still white and as I feared the borers are giving me trouble. I'm down another ring and I'm still not out of the woods.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-15.jpg)
Here's the end of the stave now:
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-16.jpg)
I'll go down one more ring and see if that works, but I'm afraid that big ring 2 down is gonna end up the bow's back.
George
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I could use some advice. I encountered a little knot right at the outside edge of the job in the bow. That's really a bad place for it, but I decided to go ahead and let the wood ride up there. Of course, that made it more challenging to follow the growth ring there. I think I got side tracked, and just beyond that knot I cut too deep in the top ring. You can see it just to the right of the knot on the lower part of the limb. This ring is only about a 16th inch thick, have I toasted this ring?
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-21.jpg)
This brings me to question #2. The wood is stained around that bend, probably from water damage. In my experience dark wood like that is harder and more brittle. Am I wasting my time with this piece of wood? I could just sinew back it and be done with it? Here's a shot of the staining.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/crooked-20.jpg)
I guess I could try removing another growth ring and see if the wood is better deeper. The next ring down is much thicker. I'm leaning towards doing that, and this time I'll probably just cut through that knot. I think it'll be well inside the limb.
Thanks,
George
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as far as the knot, when i have encountered those, i always leave an extra ring on the top for the time being, and come back to them later with scrapers and files teensy dust shavings at a time if i have to.
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And heated super glue. ;)
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Go up along the right for a foot, down the middle and down the left. Any ring searching is done on the edges. That way of you make a mistake it will come out on the shaping. For the knot go up the right around the knot and down the middle. To me when I encounter the darker wood it's an indicator of denser wood. You'll have to look at it closely. I'm tough on myself. If I make a ring violation I start again unless it is on the edges and will come out. Have fun. :) Jawge
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OK, thanks for the help. George