Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Diligence on February 08, 2010, 12:57:00 am
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Thought I would repay the great advice received from all of you by posting some shots of bow #2. Just at floor tiller now and about to start to string tillering. Need to sand the back a bit and round some corners, but other than that - she's good to go.
American Elm (sub species Brandon Elm), will likely keep it around 68" to 70" N2N. Going to make this a D-shape tiller....or so I hope. I think I had beginners luck with my first bow, so I've tried to go back to basics and follow Tim Bakers, "first wooden bow" instructions. We'll see how it goes.
This stave appears pretty good as it is fairly knot free and has some natural deflex. There is a knot dead center in the limb at midlimb and one just slightly above towards the tips. I have left extra width there for now and I'm trying to follow the undulations in the back of the bow at that spot to maintain a proper thickness.
Roughed out dimensions are:
Limb width from handle thru to mid-limb is 1-9/16" tapering to what will be 1/2" at the tips when finished. (left them a bit wide for now until I see how it tracks). Thickness at handle is 1", and 13/16" at fades tapering to 9/16" at mid-limb, down to 1/2" at tips.
I'll keep you posted.
Cheers,
J
PS - this stave is also a street side casualty (as was my chokecherry). It was knocked down in March 2009, and I saved it from the chipper. I keep looking for more of these Elm knock-downs, but they seem to be few and far between this winter.
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Good luck Jaye. Looking forward to your progress. ;)
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Progress Shot.
I think I need to get a clean wall to use for this.....
It's funny. When I was eyeballing this one, I thought I had to get the lower limb bending more. Looks like I need to get the top limb bending more at the handle. The top limb has a bit of a twist to it, but there are no knots. The lower limb has two large knots right at midlimb.
Overall this is currently 70" ntn and about 1 3/8" thru to midlimb, narrowing to 1/2" wide at the tips. I'm using paracord for my tillering string, and I have not drawn it past 40# yet....I would like to end up with at least 50# at 26".
Anybody have any suggestions? Good advice, or general comments?
J
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OK...first off...in order to make this work...the Picture has to be straight...Bow must be perfectly Horizontal in Tiller tree...second...you have to start the Ellipse at the Beginning of one Limb Tip in order to get the right Perspective on the Picture...so here is my take...the Left Limb is Stiffer from the Fade to Mid Limb...but not nearly as bad as it was made to look...I don't know which is the Top or Bottom ...but the Left is the One that I would work on first...then get this to a Short String as soon as Possible to get a Better Idea of what it really looks like...Long Strings don't do as good a job doing this... and the Limb with the Twist in it...look and see if it is not thicker on the Side that is not bending as much....and remove wood sparingly until it does tart to bend evenly....JMO
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Thanks El-D......very helpful post! I'll be more careful to be level next time. Great info on where to place the ellipse, that just seems to make so much sense now that you said it, and it's a great visual aid.
In the tiller view, the left hand side is going to be the top limb, as a result of how the string is tracking.
As for the twist in the upper limb, the twist exists when unbraced, as well as when being flexed. Would you suggest removing wood so as to cause the limb to "un-twist" when being drawn? Currently, I the limb remains in the same out-of-plane position thoughout the limb travel.
Might be a day or two until I get back into the shop, so would be interested to hear from anybody else as well.
Cheers,
J
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Me....I would not mess with it a long as the String is tracking straight down the Middle....and the Limb isn't twisting sideways when Drawn....JMO
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I'll have to take a photo of the string tracking, it's less than ideal although it does cross thru the handle...sort of. ;D
I'm considering shaping the handle so that it "points" to the string a bit, but I'm not sure I left enough meat at the handle to allow me to do that.
J
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Update:
Got it braced and tillered out to 28"....unfortunately, somehow or other I ended up with 45#ish at 28"....but I draw to just over 26". I think it was using the paracord as a tillering string....or I don't know what? I was so careful with the tillering.....hmmm....
Regardless, the right limb is the bottom limb and is bending just fine. To get the left limb bending more, is there a specific area I should focus on? Right at the fade area?...just outside that? I had thought I had it nailed, until I finished sanding it and brought the photo to the computer.
I have not really narrowed the handle on this one, and the left limb is still twisted (the same amount from unbraced thru to full draw).
It's still 70" ntn,so I could pike it a bit, and I plan to toast the belly a bit as well. That combination should bring me back up to 50# or so, I think.
Well, let me have the bad news......
J
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Pike it 2" on each Limb...with just a 26 inch draw...you can lose 4" no problem...retiller it...get them Limbs bending from the Fades to Mid Limb more...when you are Happy with the Tiller...Toast Her some....JMO
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I'll try to pike it tonight. In order to get the left limb bending more, should I cut back the fade into the handle a bit? I'm worried that if I take any off the limb at that spot, I'll end up with a hinge....hmm...learning, learning.
J
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Decided not to pike it yet....but I did retiller the top (left limb) or so I thought, then I toasted the belly, sanded it lightly and put on some Danish oil. Elm sure smells nice with the heat on it!
Anyway, here is what it looks like now. I shortened the top portion of the handle too, which made the limb about 3/4" longer than the bottom limb....anyway, it looks so much worse than it did when I put an ellipse to it.......any thoughts?
J
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Jaye...from what I can see from the Picture that you sent...there is way too much wood not moving on both Limbs right at and after the Fades....look at how flat that Bow is in the Middle...there is little...to no movement for nearly 8-10 inches on either side of the Fades...I would work on these...and free up some of that stiff area...and get more working for you...also when you Toast the Belly...it will change the Tiller some too
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yep- the toasting did change the tiller.
I'll pike a couple of inches this weekend and retiller the whole thing...see if I can get the area just outside the fades bending a bit more.
Cheers,
J
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Remember....slow and easy!
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Oh....I know, but I really want to shoot this one...and I definately do not want this one to break!
j
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Okay, I think I'm done....sort of.
Piked it to 66" NtN....works out to be just shy of 50# at 26". Heat treating and piking did the trick to boost the draw.
Still looks a bit stiff in the left (top) limb, but when I eyeball it in the shop, it sure does look even.
That top limb does have some twist and natural reflex (starting right at the top of the fade area) to it, could that be what is making it seem stiffer? Is this just an optical illusion, or do I really have to take a few more swipes with the scraper?
...and if I do hit it with the scraper, should I hit it between the fade and the stiff area, or right at the stiff area?
Thanks again so much for helping us newbie's out. I can hardly wait to shoot this baby at the "$2000 club"...with all the "serious" wheelie guys....
J
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Shoot the Crap out of it...thats about perfect tiller....get out and enjoy it....
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YIPPEE!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Good news :-* :-* (those are "manly-man" kisses...lol)
In all seriousness, I'm very thankful for your help El-D.
I've found that pretty much everybody I have ever met, in regards to primitive skills, are just the nicest kind of people ----and PA has proven this over and over again.
Thanks,
Jaye
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Glad I could help...but remember...don't depend on that Ellipse...just use it as a Tool....you still have to get an Eye for it...to be able to stand back and visualize where the Wood needs to bend...and not bend...then maybe check it with this...and see how close you were....I think it turned out well...and the next one will be totally different...and you will learn even more...good luck
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great teamwork guys diligence i would love to se pics after shot in & finish work
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great teamwork guys diligence i would love to se pics after shot in & finish work
Looks a great candidate for March Self Bow of the Month. You might take another full draw without the workbench background.
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Nice job,well done. :) Can't wait to see it all finished up. :)
Pappy
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Grats on getting this one looking better.
I had a had time seeing this bow bend, way to much going on behind it. A simple fix would be to get you a sheet or a big piece of cardboard to put up over all the hand tools,It will help you see the bow bend a lot easier.
Nice job!
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Thanks guys....this was fun. As I told somebody else, when I get focused on making something, it's almost as if I have OCD.
I'll get a full draw picture up for review along with shots of the finished bow after I shoot it in. Would like to exercise it a bit before i get too carried away with finish treatments.
As for making it easier next time, I'm already looking to see where I can hang a tillering rack.....on blank wall so that it's a bit clearer.
Cheers,
J