Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Josh on December 12, 2009, 01:56:42 pm
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I am doing a hickory backed ipe bow and due to some mis-calculations with my table saw the board came out 15/16ths wide instead of 1 1/8 inches wide. Can I still get a stable 55 pounder out of this or should I just make it into a kids bow? I know someone else posted a narrow ipe bow that they made from a scrap piece but I cannot remember who it was. How is that one holding up? By the way it is going to be 66" NtN. and 28" draw with a 9" handle riser (non-bending) thanks for the help. :) -josh
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Ipe prefers being narrow and you can easily make a 55# bow with those dimensions. That much rigid handle might be excessive. I usually go with a 4" handle and 1 1/2" to 2" fades which begin to bend as they "fade" into the limbs.
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the handle riser is actually 5" handle riser and 2" fades. Sorry PatB. :) 9 inches would be very excessive! ;) -josh
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Josh, You should be just fine at those dimensions, although, I would recommend a straight reflexed design. I would not recommend a R/D because at 15/16" they can be quite unstable and want to twist and turn.
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cool thanks David. I was planning on gluing up like 1.5 inches of reflex in this one. hope it holds! :) -josh
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Josh,
Not the same as yours but here is a "scrap" hickory/epey 51" 60# @ 28 D bow shoots just fine and quick too. This bow is just under 1" wide (cant remember just exactly how much...but she's skinny) Still shooting just fine. So I agree that this stuff dont mind skinny at all.
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Josh I made one that was less than 3/4" wide at the widest part. Justin made one that thin that was unbacked as well and his was 60 or 65# I believe. You should be fine but like David said they can get unstable in a r/d style even with wider designs. I made a really fast one that was 1 1/8" with a straight taper to 3/8 tips and a lot of r/d. It was real hard tillering it and keeping it laterally stable at the same time.
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I wouldn't add any reflex at all. If you are concerned about the width, adding more stress isn't something you want to do. You can thin the handle down to a point where there aren't any fades to speak of, but the handle has just enough wood to not bend.
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wow thanks for the replies guys, I feel better and more confident of this one's survival already. Nice bow there half-eye, looks really short. And Justin, I am gonna still glue in the 1.5 inches of reflex; I will probably have it all pulled out of the bow before I even get it to low brace anyway. ...maybe I will just use less than an inch to be safe. ;D -josh
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Josh,
An inch or less is a good idea ;). I've had some of my bows pick up reflex during tillering and that makes things real interesting especially considering all the chrono testing we used to do on these style bows..The fastest had very little if any reflex, and they shot the sweetest as well.
Rich
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I really glad that there's an IPE thread , as i have a question -- how do you want the grain oriented in the IPE if you're going to back it ??? Would you be looking for a piece as though you were going to build a board bow, or doesn't it matter as much ?? I want to try one as my next also, and this is a BIG help !!!
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I forgot to add - would a really nice piece of White Ash work for the backing - I know it's strong in tension.
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barebo, I don't worry a lot about the grain. Most of it is straight enough to make backed bows. I do stay away from knots, but other than that I look for the heaviest, most dense piece I can find. A really nice piece of Ash should be fine. Most guys use bamboo on Ipe because it gets the most out of the Ipe. That doesn't mean Hickory or White Ash or any other quality backing wont work well.
I think I should point out to someone who might be reading about Ipe for the first time, that just because several people have made Ipe bows with a width less than 1", doesn't mean it is ideal. We are talking about using what we have, not cutting it this way on purpose. It is best to have over 1" width. You can avoid issues with lateral stability, and probably increase performance by adding that extra 1/8" to 1/4".
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Good point Justin. Mine was just to use up scrap. I'm making a light womans bow right now and its 1 1/2" wide 30# @ 26 Its really thin from the side but works great. The main thing is to get the backing the right thickness for the weight you want. If you leave the backing too thick you wont have any belly wood to work with. Ipe doesn't like to bend so its gonna be a fairly thin bow one way or another.
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If you want to keep it slender 1" or less, be of hunting weight, have a reflex/deflex profile in the bow limbs, and have state of the art speed/performance try this.
http://richardsbowyery.bravehost.com/IMG_8603.JPG
I do agree it is a lot easier with more width like Pat mentions for most bowyers, but the experienced crew here I highly recommend trying one of these. My initial experience using Ipe as the backing is its easier to keep the stability as opposed to bamboo for the same thickness..Perhaps the flatness of the back is the reason..I have seen some very fast wider limbed ipe bows, and the key is to keep the outer limbs very slender with tiny tips since its such a heavy wood and doing this comfortably takes a bit of experience..
The next one coming is an osage belly with Ipe backing and almost as thin a profile.
I enjoy seeing all these Ipe bows here ;D
Rich
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WOW!!!! Rich, that bow just LOOKS FAST and stealthy !!!! Would you be willing to give a brief description of the dimensions, and maybe a few suggestions on what it takes to make that style ?? The mass weight of that bow must be amazing ?? Also, if I opt for an Ash backing (that's what I have readily available) what would be a proper thickness for backing IPE to attain 55 - 60#???. If my IPE is 3/4"thick in board form, and I rip it to say 1-1/4" wide, will I be removing a lot of material, or should I make it thinner from the beginning - maybe 1/2" ??? I'm a newcomer to this wood, and have some skills, but good advice from those that have made great bows helps prevent major screw ups down the road. I hate to see a nice piece of wood ruined !!! Thanks much for the help !!!
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barebo, 1" - 1 1/8" wide is probably better suited for Ipe. I have never used Ash as a backing, but I like my backings on Ipe a little thicker than on others so I would go 1/8"-1/32". Ipe is so dense you will probably wind up with around 3/8" of ipe left after tillering.
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Rich that is a great looking bow.. I find that once you start getting more reflex and deflex in them like the one in pic they can be real picky about width..
(http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll323/knight3169/BBI/bbb002.jpg)
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Dave, Ya there is a physical limit to the slenderness we can get away with, and why I posted that pic since I've had good luck with the stability of these modified ELB styles. I often use a thicker yellow bamboo which helps keep the limb mass low, but does get tricky to keep straight and well worth the effort though...
Barebo, This bow has its own thread about 9-10 pages back. Topics here move so fast that the occasional viewer misses these bows, and I posted it to show basically this. That you can keep it very slender in an ELB style, and use also Ipe as the backing..
Dave's sexy bow, and my example both have a lot of deflex just outside of the grip, and this is basically the key to stability when you get under or very close to an inch in width on these backed bows..
The bow I posted here is with stealthy hunting in mind and I was very happy with how it came out, and why the finish non reflective.. I do make modern shiny styles as too and have a rather wild one I may post soon as well...
On wider limbs I will push the deflex farther out towards the tips since I like this look as well. Speed wise they are all virtually even from what I have seen chrono'd.
I like your "rug" David kinda reminds me of the huge Timber wolf I grew up with. He was a real sweetheart unless you were some dog trying to pick a fight :o
Rich
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I like the modified elb as well.. I to have raised a female timber wolf.. I must say that she was the best animal I ever had.. She had a thing about Goats.. ;D
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Goats :D Well they can be rather tasty...
Barebo, I went and measured this bow since I don't remember if posted these dimensions like I should have on the thread, and since this is a "thin Ipe" thread..
7/8th's wide on either side of the grip and 11/16th's thick same spot and the "backing" is 1/4" so its sort of a laminated bow, not that I get wrapped up in precise terminology on these especially since there's 100+ subspecies of this wood.
One of the first I did in this style drew 80#@32" was 70" ntn and 3/4" wide through the grip, and was a very heavy piece of Ipe.. I guess theoretically the heavier the wood the skinnier the bow one could make not that I'm trying to do that.. ;) The leather on the grip was doubled to make it comfortable to shoot..
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i aint a bowyer, so i dont know, but i sure wanna see it when you get done with it. i love those slim ipe bows.
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Thanks Rich, I'm getting a 1x6" that I'll rip into a few different widths, so we'll see what we come up with. It's a long winter here in central NY State !!!